To leave France

[CroissantMuncher]

I have a DP (French) I love and a job that is deeply unfulfilling but pays well. We live in France and I can now apply for citizenship: it will take 2 years for that to be processed.

I am bilingual so there is no language issue. I just find myself missing living in the UK for lots of reasons. I feel like I'm done with france and what I would actually like to do is go back to the UK and retrain in psychology.

I'm 34. All my family and friends in the UK say I'm mad, France is so much better (whilst they still live in the UK....), that I'm throwing away my chance at an EU passport post Brexit, that I'm throwing away my relationship (he refuses to move).

I really dont know what to do. On the one hand settled life with DP in France. On the other hand change career and go back to UK. Part of me thinks I could regret leaving so close to getting citizenship. Another part of me thinks life is short.

Anyone been in a similar quandary or have any thoughts?

Are you happy in your relationship?
This post seems to be concentrating more on 'head', and not so much on heart!

Check a university's website re funding. Manchester Uni do an online distance conversion course which is highly regarded . Also have you checked out Facebook groups for psychology doctoral students. I'm sure they could give you lots of information.

You will also need to check doctoral funding post brexit. Do you need to have a residency period in the uk before you're eligible for funding? UCL website is usually pretty good for this type of info.

Why not just change jobs and then see how you feel? Working in a job you do not enjoy can be soul destroying. If you love your partner you could try changing job first then re-evaluate your situation.

It really is shit here at the moment, OP. I think it's going to get much worse, in honesty.

Maybe stay until you have citizenship then think about coming back? And in the meantime start retraining with eg the Open University?

I know it’s all trendy to say we are global citizens etc, but many people feel an unquenchanle desire to live in the land of their birth. If that’s you OP you need to move back home. Everything else will just be a sticking plaster and delaying the inevitable. France has a very different history and culture to the UK -fine if you want to assimilate into these, not so fine if you hold the history and culture in the uk dear to you. It’s fine for a short while but not permanently.

If your DP is not going to make the move Better to end things now and move home.

And all the people saying how shit it is here at the moment -have you even paid attention to France recently?

Would you marry your DP? After 5 years of marriage you could get a French passport whether you live there or not (That’s how I got mine, I’m presuming the rules are still the same?)

I totally understand that its competitive but it's just as competitive in France, if not more so. It would be hard in either country
As long as you appreciate that it's a big risk to take, then indeed, it's not impossible.

Does anybody know whether being British but living outside the UK definitely means we will need to pay international fees for online courses?
Yes, almost certainly. It's not based in Nationality but residency.

You also need to consider that you might not be able to claim for any benefits for a few months when you come back (if you were relying on housing benefits for instance).

@CroissantMuncher

I think you're right and it might be worth me sitting tight until I get this citizenship. It's also true that I have a lot of issues that are kind if being conflated. Career, place, relationship... They're all kind of being muddled into one right now. 😐

Does anybody know whether being British but living outside the UK definitely means we will need to pay international fees for online courses? 🤔

It depends on the university really. Right now, some really good ones are offering flexible courses online that have fixed fees, international or not. Reason is that all these courses are online and anyone with a good internet connection can learn through them. This means you have plenty of options in terms of where you live, can do a stable job as you study and do not need to worry about Covid. You need to research specific universities though to find if this is an option. You can probably create a collaboration across universities in the U.K. and France. That way, you can do online credits and do a full on research project in France. That will not only be best of the both but will also open both job markets for you potentially. May be it’s different for psychiatry but worth it to search for some option like this.

After 5 years of marriage you could get a French passport whether you live there or not (That’s how I got mine, I’m presuming the rules are still the same?)
I don't know about the uk but it's not that easy in Australia.

As someone who faced a similar dilemma, may I implore you to do what I wish I'd done:

Write down what it is that you do and dont like about your life in France. Be specific
What do you envisage would be better/worse about a life in the UK. How do you see it working? Again, be specific.

Nowhere is 'normal' at the minute, lots of people feeling unsettle, and you're having to make a lot of assumptions.

Work out what those assumptions are, research and test them.

You're going to need to look at this with a few different lenses - work, lifestyle relationship etc.

And then consider a sabbatical of sorts - maybe a month or 3 back here or somewhere else. There's always a risk that you want to move back to the UK as it was in a version of your past, rather than as it would be for you now and in the future.

There's rarely one wrong and one right answer in these situations.

In the meantime get the clock ticking now on citizenship to give yourself options.

@GhostCurry

Apply for citizenship without delay. Then make your decision.

Two years goes fast. And you should wait to see how appealing the UK looks on the other side of Brexit.

That sounds sensible. Just don't do anything hasty.

I would think waiting out to get your citizenship whilst trying to do a conversion degree from abroad would be good If you can do it. You need at least a 2:1 in a psychology degree which confers graduate basis of membership to the British Psychological Society. It can then take several years of experience at the Assistant Psychologist level to get on to the clinical doctorate , which is then a further 3 years of funded study. Not trying to put you off , just saying it can take 5-10 years to become a qualified psychologist if you take the clinical psychology route. So worth factoring that timescale into your plans.

@Ihatefish

And all the people saying how shit it is here at the moment -have you even paid attention to France recently?

So true. France is no better off than we are. Equally disaffected people, gilets jaunes, unpopular government, COVID problems. We just don’t get to hear about it because our press is obsessed with our own woes.

On your issue OP, are you content with this relationship ? That might be the starting point.

@CroissantMuncher I have a DP (French) I love no you don’t.

Five years of marriage you’re eligible for citizenship no matter where you live

@Palavah
Thank you for this advice, I'm going to do that this afternoon. What did you end up doing? How do you feel about it now?

In fact I think it’s four years if you live in France

I am probably in a small minority here ,but absolutely adore UK /England! So many people are disenfranchised with the British way of life but miss the familiar ways once abroad .Family and friends a short distance away.A language that is our mother tongue .Obv nice to visit Europe of course .Had a lovely few days in Belgium before LD but sooo nice to come home!

What do you want to do with your Psychology degree though? If its counselling that 's one thing but if its clinical Psychology that's very very difficult to get into. Even if you did a conversion course your salary would likely be very poor for some time.

Perhaps think of a distance self funded OU course in your spare time whilst waiting for citizenship - it's possible to study them outside of the UK. They can be done in modules so the expense is spread. That way you have something to motivate you and see the day job as a means to an end.

I'm from a French/English family, have lived in both countries but settled long-term in the UK, so I definitely get where you are coming from, in considering moving here. But there is no way I would move to the UK at the moment. I know things aren't easy in France but it's hard to comprehend how bad things feel in the UK just now (or England, at least).

You'd be crazy to give up the chance of French citizenship and, with it, free movement in the EU. If you come to the UK now, you will be stuck.

Wait a year, get your citizenship, do an online psychology course and wait to see how Brexit pans out. Then decide.

Do you want marriage and Dc with your DP? is he offering this, and to share the parenting and domestic work?

If yes, no and no, for example, would definitely return to the UK!

Psychology training is v long and expensive, mind you.

I came home and have had mixed feelings about it ever since.

6 months after I came back I felt I'd made a mistake and thought I should tough it out, but actually I think it would have been easier to snap back as a couple of years later I felt I'd left it too late.

Arriving back in late autumn meant that the first few months were exciting - catching up with friends and family etc, starting new job, Christmas, but then the novelty wore off.

When you come 'home' to the UK you have to remember that you're not slotting into the old life. People have moved on and you need to as well - you have to put as mich effort into building a new life as you would if you moved to a brand new country.

9 months before I moved I had absolutely no desire to leave, then various factors emerged to make me want to a) leave and b) come back. I wish I'd taken a break so I could step back from it all.

UK is a shit place to be right now

Compared to where?

Unless you are completely committed to staying in the one region of France for the rest of your life then is there a point of staying? You miss your home. You have listed lots of positives to going home but the only positive to stay is citizenship. You haven't really listed your partner as a huge positive.