To leave France

[CroissantMuncher]

I have a DP (French) I love and a job that is deeply unfulfilling but pays well. We live in France and I can now apply for citizenship: it will take 2 years for that to be processed.

I am bilingual so there is no language issue. I just find myself missing living in the UK for lots of reasons. I feel like I'm done with france and what I would actually like to do is go back to the UK and retrain in psychology.

I'm 34. All my family and friends in the UK say I'm mad, France is so much better (whilst they still live in the UK....), that I'm throwing away my chance at an EU passport post Brexit, that I'm throwing away my relationship (he refuses to move).

I really dont know what to do. On the one hand settled life with DP in France. On the other hand change career and go back to UK. Part of me thinks I could regret leaving so close to getting citizenship. Another part of me thinks life is short.

Anyone been in a similar quandary or have any thoughts?

@Gwenhwyfar

"fortunately in the OU prices are the same whether you are home or overseas."

I had to pay almost 3 times as much! That was for undergraduate though.

When was that?

www.openuniversity.edu/study/fees/how-much-it-will-cost

Here it says it’s the same for undergraduates.

Yes, I have been living under a rock. Thank you so much for letting me know about the Brexit vote! I had no idea.

I love France, I think I'd live there at the push of a button if I could. Even though it seems we are not liked anywhere north of Paris. My French friend says its not the British, but they don't like anyone in general apparently. I'm insanely jealous of you op and cannot for the life if me understand why you'd want to leave. It's a beautiful country. Whereabouts are you?

That's a shame - it's what I'm afraid of. Do you regret it for a particular reason or is it just a feeling?

Because things are not better here. It was all nostalgia and none of it reality. Everything that I thought would be better back in England is just the same. I threw away everything and it's now difficult to turn back the clock. Try a few holidays back to England instead.

@Asterion

If you feel like you're done with France then I don't see why people think having EU citizenship is so important. And, post-Brexit, I don't see what will be so different about living and training in the UK?

The UK is fine, no worse than France in different ways, and you obviously feel it is your "home".

And, post-Brexit, I don't see what will be so different about living and training in the UK?

Sorry, what?

@Rubyroost
Wait, so are you saying your boules on the village green wasnt sarcasm?!

That was our experience too, we found it very hard to 'break' into any social circles, they seemed quite closed as friendly as we were, and still are. Maybe in time it changes if you live there for decades, or if you are married to a local man perhaps? But for us it wasn't easy. They were cordial but distant, we had a handful of friends and the odd supper here and there, it was socially very limited.

Yes you are right every village, town and city in the UK will have a whole host of activities, clubs, workshops and gatherings of every kind. Every pub is pretty much a welcoming place wherever you are from, and there is a fluid social life that you describe very well, and everyone is welcome. So much so that I have to hide when walking in my village, otherwise I am roped into Tuesday's supper club or running the blinking book club, or asked to pop in for a coffee that takes up all morning.

I could not find any of these things in our village or surrounding areas in France. Most of the women I knew would cook in the evenings at home, and sometimes go out for dinner at the weekend with their dh. Older men would sit in the bar, or outside with each other, the odd game of boules was the highlight. Going to restaurants was our only option, and we quickly tired of it.

We liked it initially because the region was peaceful and quiet, but once there it was too much. Even for my dh who is not a social butterfly by any stretch. It was much more lively and interesting in Paris, and also in Monaco, with more options, but if your dp won't move there - then that doesn't really help you.

I just wanted to say I really get it, and I understand why you long for a bigger life in all ways, with more colour, friendships and interest because that is how we felt too.
' Living the dream' for us actually equalled a life that was incredibly boring and isolating.

It got worse as time wore on, and the winters there were the worst. Maybe it was the lack of good heating in our house, the damp and all of the windows everywhere always shuttered up. In the winter here you have the glow of houses, windows, lights and activity - the french villages were like ghost towns and howling winds in the winter made me feel so lonely. Maybe it was just where we were, and it is better elsewhere.

Don't settle for a life you don't fully love and feel connected to.

Sorry, what?

How is training to be a counsellor in the UK going to be different after Brexit?

It was a joke. I don't fancy boules. You did say that you miss the social life tho and surely boules is nearly always an option, even if you can't go to a pub quiz. 😂

@Friendsoftheearth
Wow. You have just explained it all perfectly. I'm so glad I'm not alone in feeling that way. And it is difficult when everyone seems to be convinced that this is the dream!

@Asterion

Sorry, what?

How is training to be a counsellor in the UK going to be different after Brexit?

You said you didn’t see what would be different post-Brexit about “living and training in the U.K.” I suggest you give your head a wobble.

I came back to UK five years ago after over 10 years in France. Reasons were my dad was terminally ill and I'd just split with my French dp. I brought our then 4 year-old dd with me. Initially I was relieved get back to the informality and variety but then i felt lost and alienated by Brexit. I was until very recently working remotely for a French company - I loved my job and they asked me to carry on when I left.

My dd absolutely loves it here. School is more flexible for a kid with ADHD. Covid means that the last time she saw her dad is January. I really miss the trips to take her to France but I don't miss the massive red tape and people like my ex's mother!! I didn't go for citizenship but in your place I really would.

If you're a blow in from any part of the UK to a new town/village/city it's hard. You're probably at an age where it's difficult to break into firm friendship groups. Maybe you're a city girl at heart and an isolated area doesn't suit you. Like for like, if you transferred to a similar area in England, you would have the same experience. I just missed family and banter and not having to explain pun and having a right old drunken laugh. But if I could have my time back again I'd go home a few times a year for that and stay where I was.

@Friendsoftheearth

That’s interesting. I am twice a migrant, first to the UK and then to France.

I don’t at all identify with what you are saying about the UK, in fact I found it easier to make friends in France.

I don’t think it’s related to the country but to the social circle. I was part of a home ed community here, so made friends with similar outlooks to mine, which I didn’t have so much in the UK.

But then I also never lived in a village in England, so that may have something to do with it.

FriendsoftheEarth sounds like one of those English couples who move to a big farmhouse in the arse end of rural France because it’s cheap and then discovers it’s dull and cold.

You’ve got to move the right place in France as you do here.

French cities are vibrant though, and have a huge amount going on culturally and socially.

"When was that?

www.openuniversity.edu/study/fees/how-much-it-will-cost

Here it says it’s the same for undergraduates."

Fair enough. It was a few years ago.

I don't understand that "lack of social element" in France.

I have met countless foreigners here despairing about the difficulty to integrate and the lack of opportunities here, whilst friends living in France have a social life that is unheard of here! There are forever between coffee, "aperitifs", diner, social gathering of any kind, and one of the reason many people are looking forward to retire there.

It's actually one thing that is putting me off France, it's far too heavy on the social and community spirit unless we stick to central Paris.

As a qualified Clinical Psychologist who supervises trainees, I'd say it's a massive gamble. The calibre of trainees is extremely high and a conversion course and a year or two of experiments just isn't going to get you anywhere near. You need to be much more realistic

You'd be mad to give up your chance at a passport. I'd sort that first and then make a decision. You will always be able to leave but you won't get back your chance at citizenship.

The value of the citizenship is only important if you wish to stay....

No, the value of citizenship is important if at any point in the future the OP may wish to live in an EU country. Not just France.

OP I would get citizenship. Once you have lived overseas you never feel fully settled anywhere, in my experience. But I think it would be worse to feel that but know that you have fewer options than you could have done, and are trapped back in the UK when it could have been different. You might never want to live/work anywhere else, but it'll be your choice.

Grit your teeth. Stay in France, get Citizenship and then you have the freedom to make significantly more choices in the future.

The average time to qualify is 10 years (with the final 3 being the doctorate) and you're not even on the journey yet with absolutely no guarantees. You absolutely need to have experience of working in the NHS - I don't even short list those that don't.

Why are you in France, primarily for work, or because of your DP?

Citizenship in France is pointless if your relationship is unlikely to go the distance, you could get decent paid work in the UK and would much prefer to be in the UK.

Most people don’t do our ideal job, or even one we like much! Doing another degree and then a masters would cost a lot, especially if FT (opportunity costs of lost earnings). Or if done on top of working FT or even PT would take many years and leave you little time for relationships etc.

Would really think through your views/feelings about DC because 34 isn’t young fertility wise, if in the end you do decide you want them, wouldn’t spend more time with your DP if you don’t want them with him (or vice versa).

You said you didn’t see what would be different post-Brexit about “living and training in the U.K.” I suggest you give your head a wobble.

I don't think that post-Brexit daily life in the UK will be very different from now. No need for head wobbling at all

I've had friends who relocated to France and found it very different, especially out of Paris, as someone else has shared. People who've never lived there maybe see it as sunny and lovely, but try it on a cold, dreary Saturday afternoon, when everything's shut.

Get the citizenship thing sorted first. If psychology in France is anything like in Germany you have to do conversion qualifications which are long and onerous if you only have a British qualification. Have you checked that out?