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Original poster

To leave France

343 replies

CroissantMuncher · 03/10/2020 12:19

I have a DP (French) I love and a job that is deeply unfulfilling but pays well. We live in France and I can now apply for citizenship: it will take 2 years for that to be processed.

I am bilingual so there is no language issue. I just find myself missing living in the UK for lots of reasons. I feel like I'm done with france and what I would actually like to do is go back to the UK and retrain in psychology.

I'm 34. All my family and friends in the UK say I'm mad, France is so much better (whilst they still live in the UK....), that I'm throwing away my chance at an EU passport post Brexit, that I'm throwing away my relationship (he refuses to move).

I really dont know what to do. On the one hand settled life with DP in France. On the other hand change career and go back to UK. Part of me thinks I could regret leaving so close to getting citizenship. Another part of me thinks life is short.

Anyone been in a similar quandary or have any thoughts?

OP posts:
Mix56 · 04/10/2020 17:39

Sorry, I don't understand, He has the job he knows & likes, his family & friends & lives in his home country. The very things that OP is craving, why is he wrong for knowing he would be unhappy elsewhere? & not wanting to throw everything in ?

Original poster
CroissantMuncher · 04/10/2020 17:54

@Mix56 Yes that's his point and I understand it. But I do also think that maybe when you're in a serious relationship, it can be about starting a new life together that could be a gamble, but would be about both people finding something they can work with. So for example in our case, it could be about staying in france because that's important to him, but moving south. Or moving to Lyon for example. But that's not something he is willing to consider.

OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 04/10/2020 19:26

"Personally two years is too long, too much time will be lost for a citizenship you may never need or use again."

When you look at your whole life, two years is NOTHING and she would have something at the end of it.
Also, you said her DP won't compromise, but that's not true as he's offered a long-distance relationship for some time. That's quite a compromise for someone who married presumably expecting to live together forever.

Friendsoftheearth · 04/10/2020 19:44

At 34 I just don't think I would want to be wasting any more time at all. Maybe if op was 24 years old it would be a different story. Life is too short, too precious.

gwen They are not married, and given op's dp won't move from his home town, even though op is unhappy there - he won't even move within the same country, much less to a different country - offering her a long distance relationship is not much of a compromise is it, given the issue at hand. He is only offering her what is doable on his own terms. He has his family, his friends, his culture and his business - op has none of those things. It does not feel remotely fair or balanced to me.

Two years is a significant investment in terms of time in a situation/environment that is no longer working for her. More dead time. More time passing that could be otherwise be spent enjoying a better and more fulfilling life elsewhere.

I am sorry you regretted your move, but I don't think you should let that cloud your judgement.

FippertyGibbett · 04/10/2020 19:47

It can’t all be his way, marriage is about compromise.

SheWranglesRugRats · 04/10/2020 19:59

Tbf two years is a lot if op decides she wants kids after all ina new relationship.

TatianaBis · 04/10/2020 22:10

Posters are urging her to move on though Friends, no-one is suggesting she stays in her situation.

Whether she moves back here to retrain or stays in France she will still be in the same point on her course in 2 years. if she stays for citizenship she’d have the option to work all over Europe, here she won’t have that.

Seems to me you want her to have kids, and OP doesn’t seem that bothered.

SuzieCarmichael · 04/10/2020 22:23

Ok so you’re pretty sure you don’t want kids and you know you don’t want to marry him. This is progress, OP. Flowers

Friendsoftheearth · 05/10/2020 06:37

Seems to me you want her to have kids, and OP doesn’t seem that bothered

I don't want op to have children!

Particularly if she is indifferent, but I do think it is important to keep her options open.

I can't see the point in hanging around for citizenship she may not even be awarded, in a place she does not like - with a man that is not good with money, that she is unsure she wants to commit to. Her future seems very very limited where she is; by the time she escapes (if she decides) she will be hitting 37 and soon to be forty! The window on her new career and new relationship will be closing all of the time...

My guess is that countries will organise special arrangements post brexit, so most people with skills will be able to continue to work overseas in any EU country they choose. I would not be staying somewhere for years on the off chance that she will be successful on the citizenship front, on the off chance she may want to work elsewhere in the EU. No way. Particularly as she has expressed a desire to live in England.
It is a big world, maybe op will decide her next adventure will be NZ or Australia or the US! Canada, Tonga or Bali. I don't see why she should be limited to just a few countries. In any event, op has expressed she wants to come home.

Sundries · 05/10/2020 06:45

@Friendsoftheearth

The value of the citizenship is only important if you wish to stay....
It’s not, you know. A French passport entitles the OP to more freedom of movement and residency throughout much of Europe.
Friendsoftheearth · 05/10/2020 06:48

sundries Op has not expressed an interest in more movement around the EU, she wants to come back to England!

I find it seriously depressing that so many people are making this thread so political. If in years to come op decides to move to Rome, by then Italy and the UK will have arrangements in place anyway.

To expect op to hang around for a citizenship that may be refused, for two solid years when she is unhappy is utter madness!!

PoodleJ · 05/10/2020 06:49

I think the question you really are needing an answer to is do I love my husband enough to stay in France. If you are more bothered about a job then your relationship seems a bit doomed.
Can you study via the Open University?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 05/10/2020 06:53

If you are ok not having kids I would get citizenship.

I would also take that route if it would be ok for you to have kids with your current guy. Because he isn’t going to move - ever. This is it for him.

If you see a settled life for yourself in the UK then I would move back now.

Out of interest, is it a kind of cultural homesickness you have? I do get that. I’m Scottish and love. travelling. Our weather is crap. But I’m not sure I would want to grow old and die anywhere else.

Sundries · 05/10/2020 06:56

@Friendsoftheearth

sundries Op has not expressed an interest in more movement around the EU, she wants to come back to England!

I find it seriously depressing that so many people are making this thread so political. If in years to come op decides to move to Rome, by then Italy and the UK will have arrangements in place anyway.

To expect op to hang around for a citizenship that may be refused, for two solid years when she is unhappy is utter madness!!

That’s a very Little Englander approach. The OP has lived longterm outside of England. She may well do again. She’s in her 30s. And even if she doesn’t, post-Brexit, she’ll have a considerably easier time travelling for holidays with an EU passport. I love the way you assume the UK is going to definitely have sensible arrangements with other countries in place, when it can’t even stick to international treaties it ratified months earlier.
SheWranglesRugRats · 05/10/2020 07:05

Tbf I know plenty of people myself included who were ambivalent about kids in their early to mid 30s and then went on and had them anyway.

Original poster
CroissantMuncher · 05/10/2020 07:42

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow Yes it is a kind of cultural homesickness. I miss how people are.

I don't know if this is a bit of a gamechanger but last night I did some more research, and it turns out that by next summer I will be entitled to a 10-year Brexit residency permit: which allows you to be away from France for five years. That means I COULD go back to the UK, with the option of coming back within five years if I feel I've made a terrible mistake. That would mean (I assume) that I would lose the years I've built up towards citizenship. But I would be allowed to come back and start over if i wanted to, and the 10 year residency permit is renewable

OP posts:
SheWranglesRugRats · 05/10/2020 07:50

Yes you would have to start the clock over again from the citizenship POV.

Original poster
CroissantMuncher · 05/10/2020 07:54

@SheWranglesRugRats

Yes, which is a shame but at least it makes the options feel less dramatic than "stay" vs "never be allowed back in".

OP posts:
Mix56 · 05/10/2020 07:58

Do you seriously envisage your boyfriend who runs a bar, waiting about if you go off for 5 years ?
Honestly I think your relationship has run its course, let him free

AnotherEmma · 05/10/2020 08:19

I've read your posts but not all the replies.

I can see that your partner has lots of good qualities and it's understandable that he wants to stay in his home town where he has his bar, family and friends. So I'm sorry to say this, but nonetheless I think you need to leave him. International relationships can be tough when you have to make decisions about where to live and one person is always going to be homesick on some level. There has to be a willingness to at least consider living in your partner's country and to compromise by moving within your own country if that's what your partner wants/needs. I also think it is a reflection on the kind of person he is that he's not interested in living elsewhere and broadening his horizons. You are clearly that kind of person and he isn't.

I have some personal experience of this, I lived in France for a year where I met my DH who is French. We then moved to the UK and we're still here. Luckily DH is happy here for now but I can't rule out moving to France in future - even though I'd happily stay in the U.K. I think. Funnily enough if we did move to France it would be to Lyon (which you mentioned), it's a fantastic city.

I also have a close friend who is English and his long term partner is Spanish, they have lived mostly in Spain but he is not completely happy there, and when they did live in England she was very unhappy. I do feel for them. They have compromised for each other and I worry that he has compromised more than she has.

In theory getting married would solve your citizenship dilemma, but given the state of the relationship it wouldn't be a sensible course of action. The 10 year Brexit residency permit sounds like a much better solution for keeping your options open.

If I were you I'd pursue that, pursue your sophrologie idea, and seriously consider relocating within France, with or without your partner.

Also, by all means consider the opinions on this thread and advice of family/friends, but remember that not everyone will get it (I do think it's ironic that many of the people posting on this thread and telling you to stay in France have probably never lived there!) and this is your life and decision, so you have to do what feels right for you.

AnotherEmma · 05/10/2020 08:23

PS I voted YANBU btw

sashh · 05/10/2020 08:36

I was thinking that might be my best option (the online conversion). Only thing is with Brexit, despite being British are we going to be classified as "International" students now? Because that's £23k :-S

That situation does not change if you move to the UK, you will still be an international student. You would have to live in the UK for 3 years to be a home student (different rules in Scotland).

You will not get funding for a second masters in the UK even if yu have residency.

Stay in France for 2 years, get citizenship and do an online conversion course at the same time.

Friendsoftheearth · 05/10/2020 09:38

That’s a very Little Englander approach

I have to say I laughed at this! I have spent 32 years of the 45 years living overseas! So I think I know a thing or two about the points op is making. We also had a second home in France for many years. Your political point scoring risks derailing the thread. It is well known here in London that reciprocal arrangements are already being discussed! I have to say anyone is little England it is probably you, the kind that never go anywhere but think they know everything! Op I am sure will make the right decision.

Many of us had very little or no maternal drive to have children until we meet the right man op - maybe looking at from your point of view, living in a place that does not fill you with joy, with a man who runs a bar and is rubbish with money - becoming a parent with him would not spring to my mind either. You may change your mind in time though. Best to live some space in your life, should you have a change of heart.

Friendsoftheearth · 05/10/2020 09:41

** leave

Davros · 05/10/2020 10:00

Regarding the idea that people are getting some form of EU citizenship to keep their options open is just the same as the very many friends I have from the EU who have suddenly decided to get British citizenship. They haven't all rushed back to their home countries, they are doing everything they can to stay here and have equal rights. It's not a one way street.
Citizens are supposed to show allegence to their country, otherwise you are just a foreigner. People would, rightly, be up in arms if they heard about similar behaviour by immigrants to the UK. That is hilarious, it's very common behaviour in the UK to the extent that we provide very extensive translation and interpreter services in the public sector