To leave France

[CroissantMuncher]

I have a DP (French) I love and a job that is deeply unfulfilling but pays well. We live in France and I can now apply for citizenship: it will take 2 years for that to be processed.

I am bilingual so there is no language issue. I just find myself missing living in the UK for lots of reasons. I feel like I'm done with france and what I would actually like to do is go back to the UK and retrain in psychology.

I'm 34. All my family and friends in the UK say I'm mad, France is so much better (whilst they still live in the UK....), that I'm throwing away my chance at an EU passport post Brexit, that I'm throwing away my relationship (he refuses to move).

I really dont know what to do. On the one hand settled life with DP in France. On the other hand change career and go back to UK. Part of me thinks I could regret leaving so close to getting citizenship. Another part of me thinks life is short.

Anyone been in a similar quandary or have any thoughts?

I'm sorry to hear that @HarryleQuebecois it can be a very lonely experience. How long have you been here and how old are you? At least you have your partner feeling the same way. Are you in a village or town?

@Maireas

Well, last night brought counsel, as they say in French! I think I could end up kicking myself if I leave without the citizenship.

I also think I owe it to myself to change region and give that a chance.

I ALSO think that I could maybe do with being a little more realistic and start thinking more creatively about other retraining options in the UK into "helping" careers. Counselling, mental health nursing, social work (I saw that they have a programme in the UK called Think Ahead which looks interesting). I think I'm going to take my "citizenship wait period" as time to properly research all these options and get a good sense of what these jobs actually entail, so that when I move back to the UK (probably 2023) I can get started with a very clear picture of what I'm doing.

In the meantime, I'd like to use my time in France to do something that could feed into whatever I end up doing on the UK and I did have a bit of an idea last night. I don't know if you've heard of something called sophrologie but it's massive here in France. It's like a mash up of mindfulness, meditation and almost tai chi. But it's literally everywhere in France, and not so much in the UK. I was thinking maybe I could get training in that here, and it could later be useful when working with people in the UK. The diploma wouldn't be recognised I don't think, but I would have the principles and techniques to use with people.

Plus, if fate works its tricksy magic and I end up staying in France for whatever reason, I would have a recognised diploma and could maybe use that and the fact I'm a native English speaker to do something with expats/immigrants here.

Just an idea but it seems to make sense to me.

Morning, @CroissantMuncher! That all sounds eminently sensible. A period of moderate change is best. I had advice years ago never to make major decisions in a crisis, so thinking about your future in this way, staying in France and developing your skills seems wise. I've never heard of sophrologie and I'm a teacher, so that's a great idea! I hope you find peace and a way forward and that current circumstances don't batter us all too badly. xx

I think staying and waiting for citizenship is the right decision. Personally, I would not be throwing that away to come to the UK so I could pursue a phenomenally competitive doctoral field where, even if you're really good, the odds are still not on your side just because so many people want to do it.

Oh dear god no. Don’t come back here. It’s a fucking shit show. An absolute basket case of a country. I’d be off out of here if I had the chance. Can you not do psychology at a French uni or through the OU?

I think I'm going to take my "citizenship wait period" as time to properly research all these options and get a good sense of what these jobs actually entail, so that when I move back to the UK (probably 2023) I can get started with a very clear picture of what I'm doing.

That’s a good idea. If you wanted to start an online uni degree with a U.K. uni in 2021, you’d be two thirds of the way through it by the time you need to make the decision to relocate.

Bear in mind that as sophrologie is less well known here there will be fewer people looking for a therapist and smaller therapist associations and networks. Straight t’ai chi may be more useful and easier to get clients in the U.K.

Sounds like a plan OP! 👏
If you don’t mind me asking, where do you see your partner fitting in with your internal move to elsewhere in France?

@Maireas

Come back to the UK. You have friends and family here and can retrain in psychology and build a better career.

Not necessarily. Psychology is massively competitive and forgoing the benefits of free movement would be extremely foolish on the off chance you succeed

Op the one concern I have for you, having read through your thread with care, is that it is plainly obvious from the outside looking in so to speak that you are not giving your age and your ability to have children enough focus.

You say you are confused and have circular thoughts when it comes to starting a family, and I may be more direct. You really don't have all the time in the world to make up your mind. This is something that is rather more pressing than your next career - and needs far more thought.

If by your current time frame and plan you intend to make the leap in 2023 you will then be 37. It may be too late to meet someone else and start a family, and even if you started immediately you would likely run into problems as you enter your forties.

Of course your intellectual and career pursuits are important, essential even, but in focusing overly on that area you may lose the chance altogether of having a family. Which may suit you entirely, or you may live to regret it depending on your nature and ambitions.

From what I have read you really don't want to have children where you are now, and it sounds like you have doubts even about the man you are with in terms of such a big commitment. Running a bar is not conducive with family life, you will end up doing all of the parenting alone, and far from home and family. I sense you know what on some level.

Moving to another France would lead to a similar set up potentially with another man. So unless you are set on marrying a French man and living there forever, then this won't end well in terms of settling down in the longer term. You are putting off the inevitable.

I have many friends that married men from different countries, it really is not for the faint hearted op. They often have very different values, ideals and parenting. Many of my friends consider themselves 'trapped' with very young children and no way to move home. I would be very, very careful. I accept culturally France is similar in terms of values, but until you are in that position you won't really know what kind of father he will be, nor how family interference/support is natural and normal for them. It could be vastly different from what you want, and will it be easy to legally go home with a baby that was born elsewhere.

I would shelve the training, and focus on the bigger picture. The reason why you are confused really is because you are jumbling up too many aspects. Break it down - simply put:

Do you want children with dp?
Do you want to stay there for good or at least until your children are adults?
Is he going to make a good father?
What options are there for your career in the future?

Start there, is he the right man yes or no and then move outwards

Basically OP has decided to do what I suggested on page one

@toconclude - look at my comments 08.38

Well I just talked to DP about it. He was pretty understanding about it all. He said he would think about changing region but that he was really reluctant just because he has his bar here and all his friends and family. I do understand it. His mother has also been diagnosed with cancer (last month) so that will definitely be another pull factor. I know him, I know he won't move.

He did ask me if I wanted to get married though. He told me to look into it and see if I could apply for nationality by marriage while not necessarily being resident here. I was quite surprised by that proposal. He said he would rather I felt free to go and make a life in england while we stay together albeit in a kind of long distance set up than us just disappear from each others lives. I guess that's a very unusual arrangement, but weirdly theres something that kind of appeals. How practical would that be though?

In terms of kids I do realise I dont have very much time but I have to be honest and say that even before him, they weren't really on my radar. Now when I consider kids, I do feel a bit "meh" about the idea, even if I try and visualise my life in different circumstances. I think I always thought that kids would be something that could happen, maybe if it was something the guy really wanted for example, and I wouldnt be against it. But of my life led me to not have them, I wouldnt be heartbroken. Maybe I would feel a pinch of regret or "I wonder what if..." later down the line, but that's the same with any life choice. I wouldnt feel deep regret at not having children I dont think.

At least you've opened the conversation with him, and it looks like there may be a way forward. Sometimes people have long distance marriages, and it works.

Your update is very interesting, so he is offering you marriage now and to stay in France with him, he is even willing to offer a long distance relationship if you move back to England as well.

His mother's illness could last for decades, and as you say he will want to stay whatever happens for many reasons, but especially to support his mother, and because he has a business there.
A long distance relationship could work certainly in the short term, it would give you the space and time to come back and see how it feels and how it works for you, and you can visit dp for long weekends and longer periods when you want to. It is not so far. You might find you both drift off, or you miss each other deeply and wish to be together permanently. Time will tell.

At 34 are you now set up with a proper pension? Do you have financial security? Savings? Options to buy a house if you want to? All of these things that don't seem so important when you are young become very very important as you hit the next decade and beyond. Do you have the means to be independent, are you saving for older age?

I am sorry to sound boring, and I am sure you have thought of this, and maybe you have lots of family money in the background. Your thirties and forties are the best 'money making' years of your life, when you hope to accumulate enough to see you through a comfortable old age, to feel safe and secure later. It might seem a long way off, but really it arrives very quickly.

Children were not important to me either, and I was a free spirit in the same way you are up until my thirties, so I do understand you can take or leave it. It does make more simple that you are happy not to have a family of your own.
As long as you have planned your finances and security regardless of what happens with dp very carefully, you will be fine.

Looking back I was much too complacent about my security and future. Life was an adventure, I spent my life travelling and living in different places and boring old age was for everyone else. Now, mid forties, I am acutely aware there are stages when we have the strength, energy and capacity to earn and accumulate wealth, and periods when it will fade, and may disappear altogether with ill health etc.

Just a thought.

Fast forward your life by ten years, what would your perfect life look? And then work backwards.

When I get very stuck, I do this, for me it is easier to work out how to get there - if I can actually visualise, see and name my best case scenario.

You will be 45 - what does that look like? Where are you? Who is with you and what is making you happy in that snapshot?

Perhaps you should come back to the UK for a bit and see if it’s what you want ?
You might find when you come back that it’s not actually what you want.

Your DP sounds committed and supportive. He has laid out his (very good) reasons for not wanting to move but the fact that he would get married and then live separately while you pursued a new career shows that he's understanding and willing to find a way to make it work.

Personally I think you should sort out citizenship and then make the big decisions but it looks like you have a few avenues to explore without upending your whole life.

It sounds to me that, although there are probably more reasons to stay in France, you want to return to the uk. It's ok to follow your heart and not your head. Also your dp does not sound like a keeper!

Dh was offered a job opportunity in an EU country. We both feel very European, and wish so much that Brexit hadn't happened. The quality of life there would most likely be better than the uk. My situation is different as I don't speak the language. But I didn't entertain the idea of moving there. The uk drives me mad and Brexit breaks my heart, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else

@Friendsoftheearth is very wise. Please be very careful to take the time to consider what strands of your life it is that you're truly dissatisfied with. I think the UK is about to become no picnic to live in within the next couple of years.

You likely won’t get nationality by marriage if your lives are in separate countries.

It makes no sense to marry and move to a different country.

DP is just postponing the inevitable.

He wants to stay exactly where he is and you want to go. The obvious choice is to split, not to shackle yourself further while moving away.

"It sounds to me that, although there are probably more reasons to stay in France, you want to return to the uk. It's ok to follow your heart and not your head."

I went back to the UK ten years ago and now really regret I didn't get the other country's citizenship before I left.

DP is just postponing the inevitable

I agree with that, he wants to try and keep you at all costs, but only on his terms, he is not actually willing to sacrifice or even compromise a little to ensure your long term happiness.

I would be extremely careful about giving up all of your hopes and aspirations to facilitate his wishes to stay in his home town indefinitely. Marrying him for instance and living elsewhere is unlikely to work, and may prevent you from meeting someone that is truly right for you.

Personally two years is too long, too much time will be lost for a citizenship you may never need or use again.

I agree with you all on the marriage. It would just further complicate things. Plus, imagine if I met someone else in the UK. I would just feel deceitful towards DP although that wouldnt have been my intention. PLUS DP is not good with money and I'm not sure it's a great idea to align myself legally with him in that sense.

So the marriage thing is a no go.

I hear you about the wait @Friendsoftheearth. But the operative word is "may"....

I'm going to apply for Think Ahead. It's a long application process. Not much to lose by applying and seeing what happens