To be fed up of DP attitude to sex

[FrostyTheNoMan]

NC

Looking for the Mumsnet view!

DP and I usually have a very happy, healthy relationship. There is just one thing that seriously bothers me and that is how he reacts when I say "no" to sex.

Usually he initiates sex (but I do too) and we have it at least every two weeks which I am fine with.

However he initiates a lot more than that and sometimes I say no. He doesn't get arsey as such but he will make a snide comment or two which just pisses me off. Tonight it has happened again and we've ended up having a huge row.

We went on a date night and DP's Mum took care of kids (DD 4 and DS 7mo). First date night in a year and had a lovely time. Over dinner it got very lovey dovey and he said at one point "I can't wait to get you home and take that dress off you". I just said "aw" or something- I wasn't against idea at the time at all but I didn't say YES DO IT either.

We come home and have a nice kiss at front door before we go in. DP mum promptly tells us that DS has cried nearly the whole time we were out and has only just got back to sleep. Within 5 mins of arriving, DS has woken up again and I need to comfort and feed him. This clearly stresses me out a bit, not great to hear.
When DS was settled, I was in bedroom getting changed out of my dress and in my pyjamas. DP comes in and says "what are you doing?" All outraged. I told him I was getting changed, I was uncomfortable in the dress. He then goes on to say "we had a lovely night, first date night in a while and I wanted to end it perfectly. But no, clearly we can't"

I said that he can't guilt trip me into sex. I was uncomfortable in outfit and wanted to get changed. He started going on and on about how he thought I wanted to have sex and that after putting baby down I would be ready.... he then said "i must have misread signals"

This made me explode. I said what fucking signals? I kissed you at the door. That doesn't mean we are definitely having sex and even if it did I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE MY MIND AT ANY FUCKING POINT.

I said to him - so are you the type of guy that if a girl was wearing a mini skirt then that's an invitation?

He was really insulted at this. All he said though was "you're my fucking fiancé" as if that changes anything.

He stormed off and has gone to sleep without saying a word. I'm fuming with his toxic behaviour which he can't even see and he seems to be fuming with me for calling him out on it.

As a bit of back story...I was seriously sexually assaulted as a teen. He knows this. I have a strong stance on boundaries and a woman's right to say no and a man's obligation to listen. As should fucking every one. he has been so supportive historically of how I deal with this trauma. Is it making me oversensitive though?

I feel at a loss of how to communicate to him on this topic because he clearly doesn't think he's in the wrong about being upset when I "reject" him. He's perfect in every other way, loving, kind, thoughtful. I love him and want him to understand where I'm coming from.

What do I do? AIBU? Is he being a huge dick?

I think that's perhaps the point I'm making Frosty, you didn't think it's a problem because it's not for you. But maybe it is for him, and that's why he becomes grumpy about it.

You do say though in your OP that you have sex every 2 weeks but he initiates a lot more than that and you sometimes say no. That's very different from your later posts where you say that your sex drives are very matched.

It just might be worth a conversation. That's not to say you should have sex when you don't want it, but as with any unfulfilled area of life, it's nice to at least acknowledge and be supportive of eachother surely.

I think you are both getting drawn in to anticipation mode and that is a significant part of the problem. You currently (and maybe always) have mismatched sex drives. He's got used to rejection and now pretty much sees it coming. You've got used to being pressurised and now anticipate that. So you are both already anticipating negative outcomes and the negative emotions those will trigger. When it does actually happen you're already primed for conflict.

What to do? He needs to lower his expectations for starters. He has no right to sex and it sounds like he already gets this, though what he claims to feel at the conscious level may not be what he feels subconsciously. He also needs to understand that as a mum to young children he is not the centre of your universe and sex is not your highest priority. He needs to see that when you are not in the mood for sex it is not rejection of him personally. He might also help himself by resisting the urge to optimistically plan ahead. He built up his expectations on your date night, put out feelers which he thought got positive feedback so when he didn't get what he was expecting the disappointment was amplified. He needs to take it much more as it comes and stop setting himself up for a fall.

For your part, I think the best you can do is try not to flame the fans when it risks causing a kick off. If you're not in the mood then you're not in the mood but perhaps try and do what you can to avoid it becoming an argument. You can be firm but gentle at the same time, if that makes sense.

I think this doesn’t deserve some of the hysteria being attributed by some posters.

He was disappointed, she got defensive, they both acted badly. It happens

She didn't act badly at all, Bluntness100. The hysteria over one comment she said is ridiculous. And, the comment she said didn't even insinuate what some posters on her imagine in their mind, that it did. Only one of them behaved badly, it was not the OP!

*on here

@upsidedownwavylegs i see your point. And totally recognise it wouldn't be a rhythm that works for everyone. tbh i don't actually know what my baseline sex drive is, left to my own devices. Once a week maybe? But obviously I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if it made me in any way unhappy.

I suppose I'm also not convinced by the idea that sex is only something worth doing (again, this is in the context of a healthy relationship) when you are in the mood from (before) the start. I sometimes think of sex as a bit like going for run. Might not be super keen on the idea... sometimes might seem (in anticipation) like a bit of a chore... but actually when you get on and do it, it can very often be really great and you always feel glad you did it (from the intimacy it generates). and, like, running, has long term benefits (for the relationship).

(I haven't mentioned this analogy to my husband... not sure he would be delighted by it!).

Glad you've cleared the air with your OH, OP.

It's not hysteria, especially if it is a trigger for the OP.
It's not like they are never having sex. That would need looking at. If this is a problem for him, what do men honestly expect when you have young children?
Maybe if men pushed children out, breast fed, coped with changes to your body etc they might understand a bit more that things change when you have a family.

And things will change when the children get older, it's not forever. Part of being in a partnership is going through those changes together.

• not all men

He's perfect in every other way, loving, kind, thoughtful. I love him and want him to understand where I'm coming from.

This is a HUGE issue, that he feels entitled to your body just because you had a nice night. Sorry op, this does NOT make him "lovely/kind' etc.. it makes him an abuser. He was trying to coerce you into sleeping with him, which means you wouldn't have been consenting.

@differentnameforthis

He's perfect in every other way, loving, kind, thoughtful. I love him and want him to understand where I'm coming from.

This is a HUGE issue, that he feels entitled to your body just because you had a nice night. Sorry op, this does NOT make him "lovely/kind' etc.. it makes him an abuser. He was trying to coerce you into sleeping with him, which means you wouldn't have been consenting.

Oh give over. He wanted sex he was disappointed. Calm yourself down.

@Kalula

She didn't act badly at all, Bluntness100. The hysteria over one comment she said is ridiculous. And, the comment she said didn't even insinuate what some posters on her imagine in their mind, that it did. Only one of them behaved badly, it was not the OP!

Yeah because equating your partner to a rapist Is all good.

I can understand why he thought the evening would end in sex; I am sure you can too. Just calling it a "date night" rather than an evening out very slightly hints in that direction.

But of course you have the right to decide that is not what you want for whatever reason.

He sounds like a keeper, so maybe have a chat today and tell him that some of the things you said were a bit OTT and tell him you love him.

He is not an abuser! Calm yourself down indeed.

Sounds like you have both handled the aftermath well OP.

Just have one other wee thought...

When someone is disappointed, they have a choice about how to express that, but the other person also has a choice how to receive it/ whether it triggers us. Men do sometimes express disappointment in an obviously entitled way or obviously trying to provoke guilt. This would be coercive. However, I think sometimes we are way over sensitive (with underlying feelings of guilt or past experiences - we women are often brought up to believe we need to keep everyone happy, so when they are not we go into emergency mode!) and therefore feel pressured not because of what they did but how we received it.

I know I am like that - because I am a pleaser. I do it with my daughter. She has a wee moan about me not doing something with her, and it sets off all my (working mother) maternal guilt and I go on a rant trying to prove why it's not my fault and she should have done x or y if she had wanted.... when all she actually needed was 'aw I wish I could have done that too my love' When this happens, it can start to feel that the other person isn't allowed to have disappointment or say they want something.

In one of your posts you said he MADE you feel guilty..... did he really? Or did he feel disappointed and because of your way of receiving that, you felt guilty and went on the attack a bit to justify?

Your description of what he did/ said sounds a bit more on the side of natural disappointment to me.... I think a lot of posters are projecting their much worse experiences of coercion onto him.

[quote Gloopygumdrops]@upsidedownwavylegs i see your point. And totally recognise it wouldn't be a rhythm that works for everyone. tbh i don't actually know what my baseline sex drive is, left to my own devices. Once a week maybe? But obviously I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if it made me in any way unhappy.

I suppose I'm also not convinced by the idea that sex is only something worth doing (again, this is in the context of a healthy relationship) when you are in the mood from (before) the start. I sometimes think of sex as a bit like going for run. Might not be super keen on the idea... sometimes might seem (in anticipation) like a bit of a chore... but actually when you get on and do it, it can very often be really great and you always feel glad you did it (from the intimacy it generates). and, like, running, has long term benefits (for the relationship).

(I haven't mentioned this analogy to my husband... not sure he would be delighted by it!).

Glad you've cleared the air with your OH, OP.[/quote]
No, I do know what you mean. I feel like that too (about both sex and running ). I just thought every other night seemed a lot. I wish it was a habit I could face getting into - would be great for ttc the next one!

Good update OP. Sounds like you both discussed it calmly like grown ups, which is more than can be said of some of the posters on here!

Oh give over. He wanted sex he was disappointed. Calm yourself down.

I reckon this is it, I bet if OP thinks about it she was too, add to that being tired and touched out from breastfeeding it can sometimes turn into really stupid arguments.

Also I think feeling rejected when you initiate feels a bit humiliating, I feel like that, I spoke to DP half jokingly suggesting we should have a code word as I really feel stupid when I initiate and he's not up for it.

Got to say tho, OP and her DH are doing well to have frequent sex with a baby and young child.

I think I might have had sex about three times in the two years during pregnancy and having a breastfed baby. It doesn't make it a low sex drive thing it's because I was so touched out and exhausted.

@Feelingconfused2020

yANBU and his would seriously piss me off. I hate this attitude to sex that a lot of men have

However

I said to him - so are you the type of guy that if a girl was wearing a mini skirt then that's an invitation? This was a harsh comment I think and I can understand his response of "you're my fiancee" in the context of this not meaning " so you owe it to me" more just standing up for himself and saying that he isn't randomly pushing himself on a random girl in a miniskirt. (ifyswim)

So while I think he was very wrong and am creeped out by his behaviour I also think your response was a little harsh.

Yeah... no. He meant it in as he expected her to have sex with him.

If he was standing up for himself he would have said something different. He was acting entitled all night, he was angry that the night hadn't ended the way he wanted it to.

@Bluntness100

Except he has form for reacting badly when op says no to sex...so I stand by what I said.

@Bluntness100 Again, she NEVER EQUATED HER PARTNER TO A RAPIST!!!

@madcatladyforever that’s a depressing state of affairs. I don’t have very wide experience - met my now DH when I was 18 (wasn’t the plan, was intending to play the field a lot more!) and have stuck with him because he’s a good ‘un. Never had a boyfriend before then that had an entitled attitude to sex either. Should thank my lucky stars I didn’t happen to come across any real arseholes!

My exes who I felt pressured to have sex with expressed their disappointment in a way that made me feel pressured (and actually turned me off and made me want sex less).

I cannot switch from mum mode to sex goddess easily.

I think this is the vital point that your DP needs to keep in mind.

When someone is disappointed, they have a choice about how to express that, but the other person also has a choice how to receive it/ whether it triggers us.

No, people don't choose to be triggered. You might work on your triggers, but if you do you also need to have some control over situations that are triggering.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Triggered

Being disappointed is one thing, but he was choosing to act that disappointment out in a strop, and that was in order to have an effect on the OP.

Also for everyone saying if he is like this now then what will it be like when we are married. I've been with him for years and years, we have two children together. I think he will be the same and I will be the same and a piece of paper wouldn't change a thing.

So, he will still be sexually coercive. You also don't know how he'll be after marriage, as you're not married yet.