To be fed up of DP attitude to sex

[FrostyTheNoMan]

NC

Looking for the Mumsnet view!

DP and I usually have a very happy, healthy relationship. There is just one thing that seriously bothers me and that is how he reacts when I say "no" to sex.

Usually he initiates sex (but I do too) and we have it at least every two weeks which I am fine with.

However he initiates a lot more than that and sometimes I say no. He doesn't get arsey as such but he will make a snide comment or two which just pisses me off. Tonight it has happened again and we've ended up having a huge row.

We went on a date night and DP's Mum took care of kids (DD 4 and DS 7mo). First date night in a year and had a lovely time. Over dinner it got very lovey dovey and he said at one point "I can't wait to get you home and take that dress off you". I just said "aw" or something- I wasn't against idea at the time at all but I didn't say YES DO IT either.

We come home and have a nice kiss at front door before we go in. DP mum promptly tells us that DS has cried nearly the whole time we were out and has only just got back to sleep. Within 5 mins of arriving, DS has woken up again and I need to comfort and feed him. This clearly stresses me out a bit, not great to hear.
When DS was settled, I was in bedroom getting changed out of my dress and in my pyjamas. DP comes in and says "what are you doing?" All outraged. I told him I was getting changed, I was uncomfortable in the dress. He then goes on to say "we had a lovely night, first date night in a while and I wanted to end it perfectly. But no, clearly we can't"

I said that he can't guilt trip me into sex. I was uncomfortable in outfit and wanted to get changed. He started going on and on about how he thought I wanted to have sex and that after putting baby down I would be ready.... he then said "i must have misread signals"

This made me explode. I said what fucking signals? I kissed you at the door. That doesn't mean we are definitely having sex and even if it did I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE MY MIND AT ANY FUCKING POINT.

I said to him - so are you the type of guy that if a girl was wearing a mini skirt then that's an invitation?

He was really insulted at this. All he said though was "you're my fucking fiancé" as if that changes anything.

He stormed off and has gone to sleep without saying a word. I'm fuming with his toxic behaviour which he can't even see and he seems to be fuming with me for calling him out on it.

As a bit of back story...I was seriously sexually assaulted as a teen. He knows this. I have a strong stance on boundaries and a woman's right to say no and a man's obligation to listen. As should fucking every one. he has been so supportive historically of how I deal with this trauma. Is it making me oversensitive though?

I feel at a loss of how to communicate to him on this topic because he clearly doesn't think he's in the wrong about being upset when I "reject" him. He's perfect in every other way, loving, kind, thoughtful. I love him and want him to understand where I'm coming from.

What do I do? AIBU? Is he being a huge dick?

I think he was a dick and you didnt do anything wrong at all!
Ffs he does know your history, why do you need to manage his feelings? Why can't he just me sensitive about it?
Even if that hadn't happened you'd just fed and settled your baby. And then you're supposed to be switched on for sex immediately?
His disappointed was fair enough, entitlement and flouncing off not on.
Your comment about the mini skirt was alluding to his expectation wasnt it?

When I read your post one of the first things to jump out at me was how you were saying how happy and content you were with your (pretty infrequent) sex life, but how he kept initiating and you say no a fair amount and then he gets grumpy. Putting aside rights and wrongs momentarily, that indicates to me that whilst you find your sex life fine, it's something he is struggling with.

He shouldn't have presumed you'd still be in the mood for sex after a baby waking, but equally, I can understand his disappointment. He shouldn't have expressed it as he did, you shouldn't have implied that he was a rapist.

I think you need to have a chat about it, and he needs to not put pressure on you, but you equally need to be aware that just because you are content, it's not inevitable that he is. How you deal with that as a couple is something you'll have to work out.

For what it's worth, I'd be climbing up the wall if it were once every two weeks. And that's with a non sleeping, breastfeeding through the night toddler and a preschooler that were less than 2 years apart. Each to their own, but I'm just saying that personally I'd struggle and so would my husband. I'd also assume that a rare date night (haven't managed one of those with my 18mo yet) would end in sex, and although the baby making might stop that, we'd both be gutted rather than grumping at eachother, sniping and making accusations. I know it's hard when you're knackered, but neither of you seem to have particularly healthy attitudes towards sex at the moment - him because of how grumpy and creepy he gets, you because of how defensive you get about it, and how even with a lovely date night you seem annoyed at his suggestion at the restaurant even at the time. Given your history, that might be part of the reason though.

He could have dealt with the baby himself if he’d wanted to keep you in the mood?

He needs to watch tea and consent. You said you’d like a cup of tea, but when the tea came along you don’t feel like it. That’s ok.

It’s all very teenage, stroppy and entitled.

"I said to him - so are you the type of guy that if a girl was wearing a mini skirt then that's an invitation?"

Why on earth are people talking about rape? Wtf?!?? WHERE is rape even insinuated in the above sentence. Invitation to sex, and rape, are two entirely different things.

The OP DID NOT suggest her fiance was going to rape her, just that he had an expectation of sex.

Seriously, where tf did rape even come into it? The OP insinuated absolutely nothing even remotely of the sort. smh

Ok update...

We had a good chat this morning.

Things I made clear -
His behaviour seemed coercive
I did not mislead him with any signals
He shouldn't behave that way if he thinks sex isn't happening
I cannot switch from mum mode to sex goddess easily.
Getting changed meant nothing.
That I was very sorry for the skirt comment and I explained how I meant it

Things he made very clear -
He behaved poorly out of disappointment, nothing else.
He does NOT think he's entitled to sex with me
He is appalled at the thought I would think he was being coercive. I said it's just a fact, that is what his behaviour exhibited.
When he has made comments in the past before he had no idea how they were being perceived.
He thought I looked sexy and wanted to undress me and that's why he was disappointed I was getting changed but it all came out wrong.
The "you're my fiancée" statement meant "you're not a random woman I have just met that I want to have sex with, this is an emotional connection thing for me" he did NOT mean that it entitled him to sex with me.

He is so very very sorry. We had a good cuddle in bed and understand the other's feelings about it.

He knows that if I don't want sex it's not personal. It's ok to be disappointed but don't take it out on me. He pointed out I have been disappointed too in the past and that's a fair point but I just expressed myself better.

He won't make any more comments and I'm just going to carry on being the amazing mum and lover I am jk.

I am happy to move past it now. I do very much appreciate everyone's views, a lot of them have helped me both from seeing it from his side and also reaffirming my feelings. So thank you all.

For the last time I do not think he is or could be a rapist. It was a comment I made in anger and sarcastically. He isn't even that offended in the cold light of day as he understands what I was getting at now. It was about misreading supposed "signals" that woman give out. It was a bitchy thing said in haste.

Also for everyone saying if he is like this now then what will it be like when we are married. I've been with him for years and years, we have two children together. I think he will be the same and I will be the same and a piece of paper wouldn't change a thing.

I've had 4 big relationships in my life. Two of those would get a bit huffy if I wasn't in the mood (because of kids and having to do all childcare and housework) and two would never pressure me. Guess who I wanted to have more sex with? The ones that didn't pressure me.

As soon as any sense of obligation enters the relationship, I stop wanting it in the same way.

Tell him that it's like chocolate (or other thing he enjoys to eat or drink). You love it and really feel like eating it at certain times but other times you dont feel like eating it at all. Doesn't mean you dont love chocolate but you just dont fancy it and dont want someone forcing you to eat it when you dont feel like it.

NB. OP did not imply DH was a rapist, she just asked him if he sees a short skirt as an invitation. Totally different.

Ok, so I definitely agree that you have the right to say no and also that the miniskirt comment was out of order.

I also know just how mood-breaking a wailing baby needing a feed is - if you were in the mood before that then picking up again afterwards would be really difficult. And after that there is nothing less sexy than a bloke sulking like a teenager because you don't want to shag him.

However, I do get why he was a bit pissed off. From his POV the whole scenario was leading up to a lovely intimate end to the day. I know that for my DH sexual intimacy is a really important symbol of our love and special relationship. You’d had very precious date night time together, reconnected as a couple, and a lovely bit of intimacy would just seal the deal.

Sounds like you need another date night to listen to each other’s needs around sex.

@Aerial2020 because I am breastfeeding

Xpost with OP.

He is appalled at the thought I would think he was being coercive

Good. But it’s a lesson for him that stropping is a kind of pressure.

For what it's worth, I'd be climbing up the wall if it were once every two weeks.

That's you. People have very different sex drives. Once every 2 weeks is not unusual for parents of young kids. If one partner feels they're not getting enough sex, why can't they crack one off by themselves?

Honestly what do some people think single people do? Do they just implode because they don't have regular sex? This idea that a person can't go a few days without shagging or they'll lose their mind is frankly baffling to me.

@FrostyTheNoMan, I also think your comparaison was right. It was harsh yes and a huge kick in the teeth but totally relevant.
In BOTH cases, what you have is

• woman does , man takes that an invitation for sex. Man gets upset, hurt and angry because actually woman says NO.

Whether the action is wearing a short skirt on a night out or getting all lovey dovey doesn’t t matter. The issue is that said man is then EXPECTING sex and feels it’s in their RIGHT to get grumpy/unhappy/angry when the answer is NO.

All this is in a context where the OP is clearly the one who is doing all the childcare (she is the one who went and settle the baby. Again?). Whilst her DH was simply ‘waiting for sex’.

I would also think that a man who actually understand the issue with rape/sexual assault should have understood that women can a change their mind and therefore HE IS NOT ENTITLED o be grumpy because the OP is rejecting his advance.
Imo he doesn’t get how this has affected the OP nor does he get that, even in a committed relationship, sex isn’t a due. Nor is it OK to sulk because you have been ‘rejected’. Even less so when you also have a 7 months old baby.

Well done OP. I’m very happy for you that you got all that out in the open and he’s apologised and committed to changing his behaviour.
There have been things I’ve had to do differently because of how my behaviour was being perceived by my DH and he as well over the years. I think that’s what they mean by growing together as good humans.

OP glad to read your update and that you and your DP sorted it out like grownups

@WetdreamBeliever You're the asshole! No where, NOWHERE, did the OP even hint at rape, YOU and others insinuated that, that's on you.

I understand about the breast feeding.
He could have asked how the baby was , were they settled now and if you fancied carrying on the eve.
It seems men sometines get annoyed when children get in the way of sex when you are both parents.

Btw it’s good he has been appalled by his own behaviour.
I’m surprised he could t see how some of his comments are out of line OR that being grumpy When you say NO to sex isn’t acceptable.

So all nice and exactly the sort of things you would expect him to say. I would be waiting for the proof in the pudding when he is turned down again. Not next time or even the following one. But in a month or two.

This is just a suggestion... it’s how my husband and I manage our different sex drives, and it avoids issues around rejection/who’s initiating etc.

We have sex every other night. Pretty much without fail.

I would prefer to have sex less. My husband would prefer to have sex more often. So it seems a reasonable compromise. He would be a very unhappy man if we only had sex once a fortnight. And he would probably not get much more than that if we only had sex when I was 100% up for it!

It works because it’s either a sex night or it isn’t, and no matter how keen he is on a non-sex night, he knows it’s a non-starter. And I’m happy to have sex even if I’m not totally in the mood because it always ends up being a nice intimate moment, even if it’s sometimes a little inconclusive for me, IYSWIM!

I realise that might sound rather unspontaneous, but how much spontaneity can you really expect in a long term relationship between 2 busy people with young kids?

You wouldn’t necessarily have the same rhythm. Could be on a particular day each week.

I understand your history might mean this doesn’t work for you. But i totally get what you mean about the difficult dynamics around initiation/rejection, and this solves them for us (in the context of a great and healthy relationship)

Ooh, glad to see that you've had a good chat in the cold, non-sexy light of day.

One of those sort of chats that brings couples closer. Well done!

I'd be climbing the walls if it were once every two weeks

Yes I was a bit at that comment! Just sort yourself out instead of going up any walls.

@msflibble

Yes, as I said, everyone's different, but the husband is in no way unusual in wanting it more than every 2 weeks, and just because you have young children, interupted sleep and breastfeeding, it would still be a struggle to some. That's all.

And you can have all the fun by yourself that you want, it's not the same as with a partner and a poor replacement IMO. And makes me want it more rather than less personally.

I think the guys attitude is wrong, but it seems that there is very little compromise or understanding from the OP as to even how the husband feels about this. It's all about how she feels, how poorly he responded, and no genuine attempts at 2 way communication.

@Gloopygumdrops

This is just a suggestion... it’s how my husband and I manage our different sex drives, and it avoids issues around rejection/who’s initiating etc.

We have sex every other night. Pretty much without fail.

I would prefer to have sex less. My husband would prefer to have sex more often. So it seems a reasonable compromise. He would be a very unhappy man if we only had sex once a fortnight. And he would probably not get much more than that if we only had sex when I was 100% up for it!

It works because it’s either a sex night or it isn’t, and no matter how keen he is on a non-sex night, he knows it’s a non-starter. And I’m happy to have sex even if I’m not totally in the mood because it always ends up being a nice intimate moment, even if it’s sometimes a little inconclusive for me, IYSWIM!

I realise that might sound rather unspontaneous, but how much spontaneity can you really expect in a long term relationship between 2 busy people with young kids?

You wouldn’t necessarily have the same rhythm. Could be on a particular day each week.

I understand your history might mean this doesn’t work for you. But i totally get what you mean about the difficult dynamics around initiation/rejection, and this solves them for us (in the context of a great and healthy relationship)

Every other night seems a fairly drastic compromise on your part if left to your own devices you’d only feel like it once every two weeks. That is a lot of starting sex you don’t feel like having. I feel miserable at the thought of knowing that was only ever a day away at most.

@Babyboomtastic

For what it's worth, as I said in PP- at the moment it's every two weeks. Sometimes it more, sometimes it's less. We don't schedule it and it happens naturally for us when we have the energy and are both horny.

I don't turn him down all the time. For the most part when he initiates I want it too. And vice versa. But when I do say no he's not handled it well or expressed his disappointment correctly which is hopefully going to be an issue anymore after our chat.

@SmileyClare

I'd be climbing the walls if it were once every two weeks

Yes I was a bit at that comment! Just sort yourself out instead of going up any walls.

Exactly!

@msflibble

For what it's worth, I'd be climbing up the wall if it were once every two weeks.

That's you. People have very different sex drives. Once every 2 weeks is not unusual for parents of young kids. If one partner feels they're not getting enough sex, why can't they crack one off by themselves?

Honestly what do some people think single people do? Do they just implode because they don't have regular sex? This idea that a person can't go a few days without shagging or they'll lose their mind is frankly baffling to me.

Haha this made me laugh. So true!!!! I really didn't think we had a problem