To be fed up of DP attitude to sex

[FrostyTheNoMan]

NC

Looking for the Mumsnet view!

DP and I usually have a very happy, healthy relationship. There is just one thing that seriously bothers me and that is how he reacts when I say "no" to sex.

Usually he initiates sex (but I do too) and we have it at least every two weeks which I am fine with.

However he initiates a lot more than that and sometimes I say no. He doesn't get arsey as such but he will make a snide comment or two which just pisses me off. Tonight it has happened again and we've ended up having a huge row.

We went on a date night and DP's Mum took care of kids (DD 4 and DS 7mo). First date night in a year and had a lovely time. Over dinner it got very lovey dovey and he said at one point "I can't wait to get you home and take that dress off you". I just said "aw" or something- I wasn't against idea at the time at all but I didn't say YES DO IT either.

We come home and have a nice kiss at front door before we go in. DP mum promptly tells us that DS has cried nearly the whole time we were out and has only just got back to sleep. Within 5 mins of arriving, DS has woken up again and I need to comfort and feed him. This clearly stresses me out a bit, not great to hear.
When DS was settled, I was in bedroom getting changed out of my dress and in my pyjamas. DP comes in and says "what are you doing?" All outraged. I told him I was getting changed, I was uncomfortable in the dress. He then goes on to say "we had a lovely night, first date night in a while and I wanted to end it perfectly. But no, clearly we can't"

I said that he can't guilt trip me into sex. I was uncomfortable in outfit and wanted to get changed. He started going on and on about how he thought I wanted to have sex and that after putting baby down I would be ready.... he then said "i must have misread signals"

This made me explode. I said what fucking signals? I kissed you at the door. That doesn't mean we are definitely having sex and even if it did I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE MY MIND AT ANY FUCKING POINT.

I said to him - so are you the type of guy that if a girl was wearing a mini skirt then that's an invitation?

He was really insulted at this. All he said though was "you're my fucking fiancé" as if that changes anything.

He stormed off and has gone to sleep without saying a word. I'm fuming with his toxic behaviour which he can't even see and he seems to be fuming with me for calling him out on it.

As a bit of back story...I was seriously sexually assaulted as a teen. He knows this. I have a strong stance on boundaries and a woman's right to say no and a man's obligation to listen. As should fucking every one. he has been so supportive historically of how I deal with this trauma. Is it making me oversensitive though?

I feel at a loss of how to communicate to him on this topic because he clearly doesn't think he's in the wrong about being upset when I "reject" him. He's perfect in every other way, loving, kind, thoughtful. I love him and want him to understand where I'm coming from.

What do I do? AIBU? Is he being a huge dick?

Hi OP, aw sounds like a lovely night with the snog on the door step. I think he killed the mood by being pissed off that you were changing, up to that point things were going well. If he had approached you with a different attitude then I’m sure things could of turned out differently.

@lafillette

Absolutely. Thank you, I just don't want to be made to feel guilty if I'm not in the mood!

Thanks @Astella22

I think it's just been blown out of proportion with the stress we encountered as soon as we set foot in the door!

I feel silly now about it all but will be fine in morning. Both of us didn't communicate well tonight!

That wasn't what I meant I just panicked and said something in anger at him that I didn't mean. Stupid.

In fairness, if his reaction to you doning PJs was as disproportionate as you say then he behaved (and probably felt) very similarly.

I really don't get the butthurt just because I'm not in the mood... it's definitely not a reflection on anything about him!

That will not be how he feels. If I'd had a rare lovely date night away from the kids I'd anticipate sex as well. If he's getting rejected a lot it's natural that he may be feeling inadequate or unatractive. I also think you are wildly underestimating how frustrating getting reved up and then not having sex is for men.

None of that makes it remotely acceptable to act like he is doing because you change your mind or don't want to- he's not a child.

Bottom line is that you need to talk. He urgently needs to learn to be more respectful and you need to understand that this is clearly a big issue for him. You may need to put a bit more effort into your lovelife but that doesn't mean compromising your boundaries or putting up with him being a dick.

I said to him - so are you the type of guy that if a girl was wearing a mini skirt then that's an invitation?

He was really insulted at this. All he said though was "you're my fucking fiancé" as if that changes anything.

He's saying that he thinks that means he has a right to your body OP, or something like that, that you have a duty to give him sex when he wants it. This will get worse if you marry him as he'll think you have more of a sexual obligation to him and that he will be even more entitled to you.

I have a strong stance on boundaries and a woman's right to say no and a man's obligation to listen. As should fucking every one. he has been so supportive historically of how I deal with this trauma. Is it making me oversensitive though?

No, you're absolutely right and your trauma hasn''t made you oversensitive, it has made you aware of when a man is being coercive, bullying etc. You're not imagining what he's doing, you know that.

Sexual coercion (which includes throwing a strop if they don't get what they want when they want it) is the reddest of red lines for me, and I would be ending it.

I think your response to his behaviour was accurate and if he's aware of your past he should be paying additional thought to you. He certainly seemed to get "carried away" almost into considering you his sexual property. I would be trusting your instincts and I see no hypersensitivity in your stance. (Bloke if username isn't apparent).

Your miniskirt comment wasn't needed though, below-the-belt really.

Tbh I'm not always in the mood as often as my DP, sometimes I say no, but he and I have had long conversations about what sex is to us. For my DP it is very much one of his ways of showing me how much he loves me and about reconnecting. I always have a good time, sometimes I put in the time and effort even if I'm not really in the mood to start with because I love DP and understand how important that connection is to him. I always have a nice time in the end 😉

Your miniskirt comment wasn't needed though, below-the-belt really.

His implying she was giving 'mixed signals' was classic male (for want of a better word) rapiness though. He'll be calling her 'a tease' next.

OP I think that you are absolutely right.

Many men think that they OWN their girlfriend and because you are going out with them, that they are entitled to sex anytime.

MY ex boyfriend said to me : "I thought when I would be in a relationship, that I would have it on tap". He pretty much raped me one night.

I totally understand what you are saying, that you should be able to say no without giving a reason. Women are the smaller people, and if the man does not accept a no, it can feel very physically threatening.

Tell him you want to be able to say no, and him to respect it without asking why or sulking

@Thelnebriati

You have two problems; you are the default parent, and you are the one that has to stitch from 'partner' to 'mother' mode and back again, and

Your partner gets angry if he wants sex and you aren't in the mood. This isn't ok. The way he deals with his feelings is not ok.

Agree with all of this.

It also is counterproductive for your partner to act like this. Nothing kills the mood - and may prevent the mood ever from coming back again - like someone trying to guilt you into sex. By punishing you for not having sex he's making it more likely that sex won't happen in the future.

A lot of men do not seem to understand what a turn off it is for someone to sulk because of sex tbh.

One of my exes went on and on and on so much..it ended up being this ridiculous situation where I wouldn't even give him a kiss, because even kissing him he decided was a come on and would twist if it didn't lead to sex Hence ex.

I do think your comment was below the belt too mind, but its already bee acknowledged anyway and we do say tings in anger sometimes. I know I would, if someone was whinging at me to have sex when I wasn't in the mood ad had just sorted out a baby! Yeah, might have wanted it an hour ago, things change.

Clearly, while you were with the baby he was thinking only of himself and when he could pick up where he left off.
He was giving no thought to how you might feel or the efforts you were having to make to deal with an upset child.
His attitude to you was selfish which set off a backlash from you.

Tldr : He needs to show more consideration instead of being selfish.

I can understand why you reacted the way you did, and can see why you said what you said and that you've now acknowledged that it was over the top - but honestly, what a dick he is for not realising that the moment you got back in and the baby needed you, then that was his signal that "things had changed" - even if you'd been in clothes-ripping-off mood outside the door, the minute you got in, you were back into "mum mode" because that was what was required.

He needs to learn that, whether it's date night, Christmas, his fucking birthday, your anniversary OR WHATEVER - the baby's needs will ALWAYS come first, and no, after you've done whatever is needed for the baby, then you might not feel the same way! This is a maturity thing he needs to come to grips with and not whine like a teenager when you say no.

Jeez, that would fuck me right off - not that he was disappointed, he's allowed to be, but the whole immature snarky reaction.

agree with the above.
why is he leaving all the parenting to you in this situation.
is he not a parent too.
he should at least be supporting you in your attending to the child.
he sounds like an adolescent, not a real man.
my father used to walk me up and down for hours in a cold house, even though he had hard work to get up early for, as he recognised that my mother had been worn out with the children, inc me a baby all day on her own.
that's a real man.
and maybe why i have a special interest in men's ears...

you were both unreasonable.

He is totally in the right to be pissed off at the implication of being called a potential rapist (and him knowing OP past - being equated to that - just horrible).

For some people sex is important - doesn't mean they are entitled to it but it doesn't make them a bloody rapist if they want to do it either.

you both expressed yourselves poorly. you both acted poorly. you both need to communicate better about wants, needs, expectations.

just a thought but maybe he was dealing with getting the MIL out the door whilst OP was with baby.

i know id rather deal with baby instead of my MIL....

Agree with Penguin1612 & PlanDeRaccordement

OP, I think you both said things you should not have. However he was the one who started it by being an arsehole.

Him saying "I must have misread signals" is him implying you led him on. It's a shit thing to say and so you fired back back with the skirt comment.

And on that note, 2 types of men.

1: Sees a woman in a short skirt and thinks she is "up for it" or "is easy to get into bed" that does not mean he is a rapist it means he is a sexist pig. Yes he will likely make a shitty comment when knocked back but still accepts the NO.

2: Sees a woman in a short skirt and thinks she is "wanting it" or "asking for it" and is gonna get it, whether she says yes or no. He is a rapist.

OP did not call her DP a rapist. She pointed out he was acting like a sexist arsehole.

OP, you both need to say sorry to eachother. He needs to be the one to say it first however.

You are not being oversensitive.

"I said to him - so are you the type of guy that if a girl was wearing a mini skirt then that's an invitation?" This was a harsh comment I think and I can understand his response of "you're my fiancee" in the context of this not meaning " so you owe it to me" more just standing up for himself and saying that he isn't randomly pushing himself on a random girl in a miniskirt.
@Feelingconfused2020
That's probably how he sees himself, but the only difference is that in one case we are talking about a random stranger in a mini skirt. His mindset is still fundamentally wrong. Being in a relationship with someone doesn't make pressing her to have sex ok. In fact, it is just as bad.

He doesn't understand that he is not entitled to sex with his fiancee, that he doesn't have the right to press her by creating an angry atmosphere if she rejects him. This is coercive behaviour.

I am not a random girl and he's not a predator so I shouldn't have said that.
@FrostyTheNoMan
The basic issue here is that he doesn't understand what consent is. That is what all that guff about 'signals' was about.

There is a line dividing an entitled attitude from respect and he doesn't know where it lies. It's not a very fine line. It's not one that's hard to detect. He told you tonight that it is both of those things. That is gaslighting.

He was happy to see your kiss as a green light but angry about you taking off your own dress and getting ready for bed. Signals are not the problem here for him. He is angry that you changed your mind. The only rationale for his anger is that you don't have that right.

He wants to believe, based on no actual evidence but just because you and he are in a relationship, that he is not pushing himself on a woman. But he really is pushing himself on a woman by his angry reaction to your no. Are you going to stick to your guns next time or are you going to consider the potential for an angry reaction?

I would be very cautious about proceeding with this relationship.

I agree 100% with @SoulofanAggron.
Read her posts again.

Also agree with @Sciencebabe.

This wasn't a case of two people communicating badly. You came face to face with rape culture tonight.

To all the people seemingly unable to get past the miniskirt comment, the OP states that the DP habitually responds badly to being turned down for sex.

This is not a case of a one-off miscommunication or a man who likes sex who is understandably disappointed. It's a case of a man who thinks he is entitled to it.

Ok thank you everyone for your comments!

I appreciate everyone's view. As PPs have said I think we both communicated poorly and I'll be discussing it further to get more of an understanding of what the hell he was thinking. Will update!! When I got back into bed earlier from a night feed, he was awake and said "I'm so so sorry"

I just said it's ok and we'll chat in the morning because I wanted to get back to sleep.
He's a good man, I trust him and I love him but he can be bloody stroppy arsehole sometimes.

I have a feeling when I explain myself today, he'll understand. If he's apologising now he already knows it was wrong for him to react that way.

I definitely was not in my mind comparing DP to a rapist when I made the skirt comment. It was was how @NoDarling has so eloquently put it and in retaliation to the signals comment which I do think was a shitty thing to say. I believed I had given no such signals that sex was a definite and therefore asked if he thought clothes were a signal in sarcastic tone. It wasn't a genuine question as I know he's not that type of man.

As I've said, I'm going to apologise for that,

Don't worry @alexdgr8 - he is a "real man" whatever that means. He is a hands on loving Dad and the only reason I was attending to baby in that instance is because he needed a breast feed. He took both kids out all day Saturday so I could have a break and we are an excellent team when it comes to parenting normally. Not what the issue is here though.

YANBU at all. He needs to learn very quickly that consent isn’t something you obtain by manipulating, guilting or nagging your partner into submission. I would try and have the conversation when it isn’t the heat of the moment and make sure he knows it’s an absolute deal breaker and something he has to take every step to resolve now.

The real issue is his sense of entitlement. You are rightly picking up on the fact he feels he should access to you whenever he feels like it.

'I am your fucking fiance' shorthand for I should be enjoying unlimited sex. I gave you the 'lovely' date night, now I expect a return.

Your relationship sounds almost transactional, and he does not understand that your body is precisely that really, and his needs come first. I don't think you should be apologising, personally, you are reminding him that you are not an unlimited service to him but a human being with feelings and boundaries.

At some point you need a talk, to discuss his reaction to your decision to say no, he needs to learn not to storm off and be petulant just because the evening did not conclude in the way he wanted. A reminder that he needs to remain respectful of you and your body, and your decisions about sharing intimacy.