September 2020 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's now September 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Wow, I'm so glad I came across this thread... was googling various things and came across a mention of this in another Mumsnet thread.

I have read the first couple pages and will go back and read through more thoroughly too!

It is heartening to not feel so alone in my feelings towards my mother.

To cut a long story short, I grew up being told things like "Everyone in our family hates you" and "Your brother [who was very docile and compliant] was born to make up for you"... and of course, being a child and young adult, I believed these things and became convinced that everyone I knew was putting on an act, out of pity or something, when they interacted with me, and that they all secretly despised me. I still struggle with this!!

It took me a long time to realise that it was my mother's issue, NOT mine. She is very emotionally immature, and she would often go in a raging huff if my dad went out with friends or relatives (something he got to do very rarely), then take it out on me by saying nasty things. Essentially, she relied (and still relies) on him for her sense of comfort and happiness... I feel like they have more of a parent-child relationship than a partnership (with her being the child). She rarely does anything on her own and has zero friends.

It often seems like she had children only to make herself feel loved, and when it became apparent that children do not work this way, she turned on us.

I often worry about when she dies and that I might end up being pressured into saying something at the funeral, being the eldest. I feel no warmth towards the woman whatsoever.

My father thinks she is some kind of saint. All the nasty behaviour took place when he wasn't around. My father used to smack us and shout at us, but he also had a warm, loving side and I never doubted that he loved me and my siblings. He has even since apologised for punishing us physically and I can tell he is full of regret.

I had kind of put this all behind me, but it all came rushing back when my first child was born a few years ago. I haven't been able to let it go or resolve it.

That's often a point for reflection when a child is in tbe offing and you couldnt contemplate being the same, isn't it? So pleased you found your way here. Don't feel pressured to do something like speak because someone else wants you to. You have agency, you can say no. Maybe start practising for when the time comes? Anyone who would pressure a bereaved person isn't worth being considered in you feelings

I have posted occasionally on here previously but keep falling off so apologies for that! Went NC with SM and Dad in April after years of controlling behaviour and complete lack of love.

Unfortunately a combination of this, lockdown and stress at work due to Covid led to me having a breakdown in December and I have now left my job. Fortunately this pushed me into finally seeing a therapist so I am now doing CBT although due to lockdown and home schooling I am not making much progress as have no spare time. DS is back at school after half term though so hoping things will improve then.

Currently trying to recover from yet another awful dream involving being trapped back at my parents house with my current safe life destroyed. I regularly have these and they affect me for the whole of the following day :(

With regards funerals the only way I would go to my SM's one would be if I was allowed to watch the coffin go into the furnace to make sure she was definitely gone.

Oh and kettle it only really hit me really badly when I had DS. My therapist says this is very common as you realise there is no way you could treat your own child as you were treated. I would rather die than make my DS suffer what I did.

Thank you @purplerayhan and @themost for your understanding.

The reason it takes so long, the reason you only realise when you have your own children and you know that you could not treat them like that
It's because they have made you complicit in your own abuse and downfall, because they cannot tolerate the knowledge that they they have been abusive they have instead to convince you that you are worthless and you deserve this treatment
This creates such chaos and confusion

Thought this from another thread might be helpful to anyone who hasn't see it. Hopefully

@singlemummanurse wont mind me copying and sharing here.

#Don't rock the boat.

I've been thinking about this phrase a lot lately, about how unfair it is. Becausewearen't the ones rocking the boat. It's the crazy lady jumping up and down and running side to side. Not the one sitting in the corner quietly not giving a fuck.

At some point in her youth, Mum/MIL gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again, and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the crazy. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own.

The boat-rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of his boat-steadying skills that he secretly (or not so secretly) lives for the rocking.

The boat-rocker escalates. The boat-steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, he's the best boat-steadier ever, and that can't be true if his boat capsizes, so therefore his boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation?

Ballast!

And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born.

A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. He's so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and he'll fall over. There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him to swim either. He'll jump at the slightest twitch like his life depends on it,because it did.

When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat-steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see thatyouaren't the one making the boat rock. They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping.

Now you and your DH get a boat of your own. With him not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat-steadiers have to work even harder.

While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something!

So the flying monkeys are dispatched. Can't you and DH see how much better it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make their lives so much easier#

Is anyone struggling with what to do about Mothering Sunday with a LC parent? It's also my Mother's birthday soon. Please don't say to not do anything, I am not NC just LC. Then it will be Father's Day.......I find it such a difficult time to keep ow what to do. I don't want to see them but equally I don't want to 'stoop to their level' by just sending a Text.

Mummyoply - I send my very LC mum a card for Mother's Day - very plain, just love from mighty. Last time I did this, her neighbour found it (unopened) in the hedge next to the front door covered in mud. My mum loves to move the goalposts - sometimes she sends a card, sometimes a gift voucher - on my most recent birthday she emailed me to say she was too old and poorly to send me a card, plus a load of other guilt inducing stuff. I just keep sending the cards - it's the closest thing to grey rock I can think of... hope this helps a bit.

@Purplerayhan I copied it from another site, was originally from a post on the justnomil site on reddit but thought it was fab so share it when it fits the situation . The post is buried on their sticky somewhere so might be able to find the original author to credit them but it's just on the clipboard on my phone as can be useful to re read when needed.

Thanks singlemummanurse.
Mummyopoly, send a card, in advance, nothing else. No need to call,text, mail after that. Nothing that involves thought, money or care. Just perfunctory. What ever you do won't be right, so why stress yourself out?

Hello, veteran with new name change👋
There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him to swim either
or made damn sure he couldnt learn!
thank you for sharing Purplerayhan, I find that analogy very helpful!

Thank you for the boat rocking analogy, very true.

@Mummyoply I would send flowers, with the card from the florist on it. It's appropriate but doesn't require too much mental energy on your part.

It was a revelation for me to finally accept that any gift I sent was not only wrong, but evidence of what a terrible person I am. So I just did the most basic, classy yet no thought required gifts from then on. It made no difference to the reaction but I felt more in control.

@Purplerayhan

Can I add to the boat analogy, that while the boat sways wildly, the very people who are running around rocking and scrambling to steady it are at the same time insisting that the boat is not rocking at all.

Love the boat analogy!

With regards mother's day I am NC now but when I was LC I just sent a card. I remember the horribleness of standing in front of all these cards with poems about loving mothers and trying to find a plain one. Massive hugs for anyone going through that.

trying to find a plain one
Ha! I've done that all my life ....I could never ever bring myself to get any kind of a sentimental card for either parent

@CupOfTeaAlonePlease

*@Purplerayhand

Can I add to the boat analogy, that while the boat sways wildly, the very people who are running around rocking and scrambling to steady it are at the same time insisting that the boat is not rocking at all.*

You most certainly can! It's blooming true as well. The ability to argue black is note and that my reality was non existent is something I don't miss

Edit: to argue black is white that should say. Oh for an edit button!

[quote CupOfTeaAlonePlease]@Purplerayhan

Can I add to the boat analogy, that while the boat sways wildly, the very people who are running around rocking and scrambling to steady it are at the same time insisting that the boat is not rocking at all. [/quote]
Ah yes! Gaslighting is a form of torture imo and is utterly horrific.

It's only as I step further and further back that I can see with clarity just have fucked up things were and that nothing, no matter what I did or didn't do, would make any difference to my role as the scapegoat. After a couple of false starts I found an exceptional therapist who really helped me get the perspective and strength to break away from the whole circus and for the first time, I can honestly say that as this mother's day approaches my only emotion is a literal 'meh'. It's liberating and has given me the mental energy to start to make a different kind of friendships to those friendships I made when I thought what I deserved was nothing. I now have fewer friends but kind ones, ones who remember my birthday, who make me feel good about myself and who I am. That was a huge revelation for me when I realised that I had been replicating, unconsciously, the awful and damaging childhood dynamics with my so called friends. I hope with mother's day coming soon that people can get what peace and comfort they can.

Thank you for all the replies to my question. I really value the advice. I have pre-ordered a card and simple bouquet of flowers. All done very simple and paid for so I don't have to think about it again. I feel better already.

Good for you. Make sure that you have something nice to have/do for yourself to so you can take focus away from Dnot so muchM

Thanks @Purplerayhan good advice

Hi I'm new to this thread and looking for some self help recommendations. I've been LC/NC for some time with both parents, and I feel like I understand the impact of their horrible parenting and the way it has affected my life so far. But at nearly 50 and a million miles away from that toxic situation I still find myself repeating learned behaviours (also reinforced by a long marriage to another form of narc surprise surprise) e.g. people pleasing, burying my own feelings, panicking when any conflict comes up. Can anyone recommend a book that looks at behaviour changing rather than just recognising where the behaviours come from? Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere and thanks for such a helpful and reassuring thread.

Hi Violet

If your parents are narcissistic in nature I would suggest you read these two publications:-

Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth

Stop People Pleasing by Patrick King is also another good one. You do know that people pleasing comes from having low self esteem, that is one button your parents installed into you.

I would in any case further lower all contact levels with your parents to a point of zero over time. I would also be aware of any and all flying monkeys sent in by your parents to do their dirty work for them.