September 2020 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's now September 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Can anyone give any advice on how to prepare and what to do if you bump into your NC relative in a public space.

Do you:

1. Make eye contact. Nod and keep walking?
2. Avert eye contact and keep walking?
3. Ignore if they call after you?
4. Respond with a vanilla closed down response if they greet you and keep walking?

If the NC person was alone it seems quite simple to choose one of the above (which one though?) - but if they were in the company of a friend / relative that didn’t know the situation or who you were not NC with - would you have to stop have vague polite banter and be ready to move on swiftly?

@Sssloou I have only seen my mother from a distance on a couple of occasions while out shopping. Both times I managed to leave the situation and avoid her noticing me. Personally I wouldn't stop and talk if she approached me, especially if my DD was with me as I'd ve worried about my mother making a scene which would be upsetting for DD. But I guess it is individual for each person in this situation. You need to decide what you would feel most comfortable doing. I don't think there is one 'right' way to deal with it!

@Sssloou should add, the possibility of bumping into my mum when we lived in the same town made me quite vigilant when going to town so I could make sure I saw her before she saw me. Now me and DD live in another town, going out (well, within covid restrictions!) is much more relaxing.

As for being with friend or relative who doesn't know you're NC - that sounds stressful. Do you feel unable to tell your friends or the relatives you're in contact with that you're NC with your mother? You don't need to explain why. If they judge you for it then perhaps it's not good for you to spend time with them?

Thanks YesSheCan for your insight and expertise. I think if she were alone I would on reflection totally avoid if possible, look through them if had to pass by and ignore them if they approached or called after me. It helped me to write it down and see your response to get to that.

If she was with someone who knew or didn’t know about the NC - I wouldn’t want to embarrass the other person so maybe would direct something like - “Sorry can’t stop - will call you later” specifically to the other person.

There is a v sensitive family occasion coming up which will require being in her presence - not sure I can tolerate it.

@Sssloou ah, no expertise on my part, just my personal experience. Luckily for me, so far I've not faced the prospect of attending a family event that my mother will be at. If it was really important for me to be there too, I guess I'd have to go and manage somehow but I don't really have any useful advice on how to cope with it! I'd find it really difficult. Do you have a supportive person to go with?

Another development - NC Narc sis has now started texting my DCs directly - platitudes around a v sad anniversary that she hasn’t done in the past decade. DCs are late teens both at uni so I don’t want to tell them what to do as they are adults. One asked how they should respond I said just ignore. The other had immediately responded with a brief “thanks”.

I am finding it really upsetting like she is trying to come in by the back door. She is being nice in the texts - so difficult to call it out - but I see it as some kind of “grooming” - she wants my kids on her side to show her power and hurt me - or she is trying to worm her way back to me?

I can’t work out what she is up to.

There has not been any acknowledgement (never mind an apology) for the outrageous stunt that she carried out earlier in the year which specifically targeted and deeply hurt my children.

I am tempted to approach her directly and request she back off from my DCs - but I know that this would be fuel to her Narc rage. She is also v mentally unstable and I am not interested in being provoked into a communication which however rational would be twisted and weaponised to be the cause of her having a total breakdown or worse.

Hello, I was directed to this thread by someone on another unrelated thread. I'm currently at a crossroads with my mum and don't know how best to proceed.

I am pregnant with my first child, due in just weeks, and had an epiphany about a week ago after my partner walked in on me in floods of tears on the phone to my Mum. He stood by my side and waited for the conversation to end and just witnessed me crying for about 10 minutes in silence whilst she tore into me on the other end of the phone. I managed to end the call and he asked me what she was saying whilst I was crying to which I explained that, as usual, once I start crying that's when she really starts going to town and reinforcing the things that she now knows (through me crying) can really hurt me. Some of the things she was saying were that I am black and white in the way I see the world, that it's no wonder none of my work colleagues like me (I've recently had to blow the whistle on some pretty serious pregnancy discrimination at work and it has made me pretty unpopular), that I'm overly emotional, that she doesn't know why I called her, and that she must have made mistakes bringing me up for me to be like this. A lot of these are things she's been repeating for decades, but she every so often tries new insults to throw at me and keeps repeating them until she has worked out which ones hurt me.

Anyway, being reduced to weeping is not unusual for me and my Mum, but something about being pregnant and so imminently preparing to become a Mum myself made me realise that I have to do something to protect myself from her in future - I am fully aware how hard it is going to be being a new Mum and I can't afford to be spending my precious energy battling myself in my own head after a horrible confrontation with my Mum. Having my partner in the room while she was saying certain things to me really helped me see how abusive they were, where I would previously have just gone in on myself with anxiety about how I don't think in the "right" way, and how there is clearly something inherently wrong with me as she says. Also the fact he was so shocked that someone would double down on tearing into you when you are crying made it clear to me that this is not a normal way to treat someone you love.

I spoke to some friends about this and was advised to send her a message, saying that I need her to respect my parenting choices or I won't be able to continue a relationship with her. For background the argument happened because my MIL wanted to buy quite a lot of gifts for our new baby (the crib, pram, etc) and when my Mum found out she wanted to buy something too. I asked her to buy a baby sleeping bag as it is a relatively inexpensive item and I know that she is very tight with money. Weeks passed and when I mentioned the sleeping bag again she was really weird about it and acting as though I was being a spoiled brat and demanding things from her. I called her out on it and said "look I'm perfectly happy to buy it myself, I only asked you because you asked to buy something. It's not an issue, would you like me to just buy it myself?" to which she got angry, hung up, and then ordered the sleeping bag without telling me - forwarding me a delivery notice email with the words "I hope you don't mind, it's only a marks and spencer one" as though I'm some great diva who would only accept gifts from harrods or something, as if M&S isn't quite obviously a high quality brand - a subtle and sophisticated way of trying to make herself into a martyr and me into some awful brat screaming for luxury gifts!

In my message I sent to her I chose not to confront her on the more dire things she said to me "I must have made mistakes bringing you up for you to end up this way" "no wonder all your colleagues hate you" etc as I knew that she would go mental if I called her out on those things. I called her out one time years ago (as a child) on something pretty awful she had done to me and she responded by putting her foot on the accelerator and getting up to 130mph on a windy country lane with me screaming and crying - I was convinced we were going to die. Then she slammed on the brakes and pulled over and got out of the car and started beating herself about the head and scratching at the skin on her face. This gave me deep insight into her personality - she feels so deeply guilty and ashamed that she is physically incapable of admitting guilt. Usually she pushes it away by demonising me, blaming me, shouting at me, guilting me, and not relenting until I beg forgiveness and break down into a puddle just convinced there must be something deeply wrong with me. This is the only way to pacify her. That or just lie and immediately accept her lies and re-framing of the truth so that it doesn't escalate. I've never been very good at that though. I always try to stand up for myself hence the usual mega-arguments where she starts to pull out the big guns (guilt, blame, criticism) until she has worn me down and she can feel happy that I am the one who is wrong. But I usually try not to confront her on the big stuff, as I know how fragile her ego is and how dramatically dangerous she can get if I point out something glaringly nasty she has done to me.

So with my message I avoided calling her out on the nasty things she'd said and instead focussed on her recent campaign of criticism about me buying a pram before my baby is born. I was conceived immediately after a suicide attempt by my Mum, born into a squat with no toilet, and nowhere for me to sleep, and after this we were homeless for a number of years. I can only assume she maybe feels guilty about that (its the only explanation I have) and she has been ridiculing me for preparing for the arrival of my baby, and letting me know that she's spoken to others too who agree with her that I'm being ridiculous in things such as buying a pram from a second hand shop. Anyway I chose the pram as the thing I'd focus on in my message and basically said "I need you to respect my parenting choices. I respect that you did things differently, and you need to recognise that I will also do things differently to you as a parent. I know I will make mistakes as a parent, I am not perfect and I am a novice, as you were, but there is nothing inherently wrong with buying a second hand pram and I need you to respect my way of preparing for my baby and not criticise me when I'm doing the best I can". I added "please don't see this as an attack, and please don't respond with more criticism - if you are able to agree, I would be really grateful that you respect that I will parent differently than you, and that there is nothing inherently wrong with buying a pram". The last bit may seem directive but I know from experience that she would feel attacked, attack me back, and I just thought I would give her the chance to just acknowledge these 2 quite simple points that would have made me feel so much better about her being a grandparent to my child.

After I sent the message I said to my partner "I know what she's going to say... she will deny that she ever criticised me, and she will bring up something that I've done to criticise or hurt her in the past". Sadly I might as well have had an imaginary conversation with her as I could have so accurately ghost-written her reply. It came, and as expected it was straight away confirming that she had never criticised me, that she was just pointing out facts. She said she only mentioned the pram once (very definite lie), also trying to suggest MIL agreed with her criticisms, and others that she'd spoken to. She said if I wasn't so sensitive then there would never be any issues between us. And then she mentioned times when I had really hurt her feelings by criticising her (I have criticised her, she has never criticised me, only pointed out facts)... she then said she had to go to her counselling session which made me laugh out loud - no she's never had counselling herself, she is a counsellor! I used to think all counsellors were supposed to have counselling but no, she never has, except as part of her initial training. It made me laugh to think of her validating peoples feelings in her counselling session when she knows full well that my feelings have NEVER ONCE been valid. I wonder if she tells her clients that if they weren't so sensitive they wouldn't need counselling in the first place - that should sort them out.

My Mum has never once in her life apologised to me, about anything, ever. She is pathologically incapable of ever being in the wrong, and it means that I must always be wrong. The way she often does this is just saying things and then denying that she said them. I remember one time as a teenager when she told me she didn't love me and then directly denied it seconds later - angry with me for suggesting such a thing. Luckily in adulthood my partner has witnessed times when she says things and then pretends that she didnt' say them, because for a long time as a child and growing up it just drove me mad, I would spend hours and days battling in my head, trying to convince myself that I really did hear those things and I'm not mad. She is always on her best behaviour with other people, but with this partner we've now been together almost 9 years and after a couple of years she found it difficult to always maintain her facade. Over the years he has witnessed some of the more dramatic tactics she will employ - her extreme attempts to guilt me when all else fails, once crouching in a corner whilst we (myself and partner, and what was supposed to be her) watched tv, for about 3 hours straight. I was going nuts at this time because I felt so guilty that she was crouching in the corner but my partner convinced me that we should just ignore it, and that it was her choice to act this way. He continued to be kind to her but refused to take on guilt because of her choice of actions. The reason she was crouched in the corner was because she had screamed at me in the car on the way home that there is something wrong with me, that I'm mentally ill, because I was having a panic attack because she claimed she was unable to read the map and we had accidentally driven to wales on what was supposed to be a short trip! It took me a while to pull over and read the map myself so we could get safely home. She can read maps. Anyway, in the evening I called her out and said I'd found it really hurtful that she'd said I was mentally ill and there was something wrong with me, and she flipped out when I refused to accept her pretending she had never said that - eventually ending up crouched in the corner for 3 hours with my partner squeezing my hand and telling me not to pander to her and that it is her choice is she wants to crouch there... with his help I have been able to see a lot of her behaviour for what it truly is for the first time. Our whole lives it's just been me and her as she was a single parent by choice, and never had any other relationships after I was born. I spent my days and all of my energy battling to maintain my perception of reality, hours and days caught up in trying to remember the slightest things, and arguing about exactly what had happened and then if I did argue having to fight back against a barrage of guilt tactics, hostility and criticism. Having another person to witness this for the first time has really helped me know that I'm not mad, that she's been the mad one all along.

Anyway back to my message, despite the fact I accurately predicted everything she was going to reply to me, the message itself still hurt so much. It hurts when your mum lies about what she's said, tells you your feelings are not valid, insinuates other people agree with her and everyone is against you, and essentially says "shut up". Its maddening and painful. And I don't want to have to deal with those feelings any more - I'm going to have my hands full just trying to be a decent mother myself and trying my damn best to not pass on these things to my child. My partner assures me that I don't treat him as she treats me, and I won't treat my child like that either. If I say something hurtful to him, I recognise it, I apologise, and I reflect on what made me say it - but most importantly I want him to realise that I didn't mean that hurtful thing, and that I was wrong and it's not true... I hold onto this as a bit of hope - I'm actually a master of knowing when I am wrong, after all my entire childhood was a masterclass in being wrong all of the time.

My partner has a kind view of my mum, despite seeing all her flaws, which I'm grateful for (previous boyfriends have just hated her!). She was physically and mentally abused as a child by an extremely sadistic parent, and she's never been able to have a functioning adult relationship. I feel for her. I can only imagine the way she made me feel as a child is how she feels herself, but tenfold - that she is plagued by guilt and shame, and the only way she can deal with it is projecting it onto others and never ever admitting that she has ever done anything wrong, even the smallest thing. I have tried tentatively in the past to get her to accept that she did something very very small wrong, and reassured her that everyone gets things wrong sometimes and that it doesn't make you a bad person. But she can't, she becomes extremely unhinged at even the slightest acknowledgement that she did or said something a bit mean or misguided, to the point where I will never try this again - she has attempted suicide when I was a child and she is not psychologically stable.

I don't want to cut her out of my life, mainly because she is not going to be around forever and I think I would feel guilty if I had done that. But I desperately need to find ways to protect myself from her criticism - I've come a long way with my own self esteem as an adult, with lots of counselling (I was also sexually abused by 2 family members - my family are a joy and a whole other story, my mum is actually the most sane of all of them), but I am never going to be strong enough to withstand her nastiness. She loved me as a child, but was constantly disappointed with me from when I hit puberty onwards and started developing my own mind. Latterly since I've been in a stable loving adult relationship and further sorted my life out I don't think she even likes me any more. Her attempts to persuade me that my partner is abusive and sexist have failed and I have roundly told her that he is wonderful, if flawed, and that we have a healthy, loving relationship - I think she hates not being able to undermine my faith in my loving relationship, and she hasn't called me for 8 years, only visiting about 3 times in that time (if she feels obliged, like when we got married).

I would be grateful for any tips on how to keep my mum in my life but limit the impact she can have on me. It really is important to me now becoming a mum that I am as mentally strong as I can be, and that means keeping her out... I am hugely disappointed although not surprised that I offered her a simple way to acknowledge that a) she respects that I will parent differently from her and b) there is nothing inherently wrong in buying a pram and that she is pathologically incapable of even that. It is sad. I am going to have to maintain a superficial relationship with her and never be emotionally close to her, all because she won't say those 2 basic things (and much much more). So sad to end up like that :(

Wow that was a big essay - I have needed to say this stuff so much. Writing it down helps everything feel clearer...

Sending out positive healing vibes to everyone on here who has struggled with difficult parents to the detriment of their own mental health xxx

OP, I don’t understand why you want to keep such a toxic and damaging person in your life, risking her treating your child like that when it arrives, and continuing to destroy your self esteem and happiness.
What do you actually get from this relationship, that could possibly be worth all this pain?
I went through a similar epiphany when I was pregnant with my first child. My lovely supportive DH actually shouted at my parents - he was normally so calm, laid back and kind, that I finally realised that if even HE couldn’t accept their behaviour, then it must be them, not me, who was the problem!
I’d been blamed, criticised and scapegoated my whole childhood, and had zero self esteem, forced to consider only their needs and not my own.
But I wrote them a letter after that visit, broke all contact, and never saw them again. I did not attend the funerals and have never regretted it.
I think you should seek therapy to help fix the damage this awful woman has inflicted on you.
You are not responsible for her problems- she needs to seek her own therapy, but probably won’t as she will believe she is normal and it’s all your fault.
If you can’t face going nc all at once, try the grey rock approach. Don’t initiate contact, respond with minimal yes/no answers if she contacts you, don’t offer any personal information at all about your plans or activities. Be vague and noncommittal. Be busy with other things. Keep her impact on your life as low as possible.
But I still think your own mental well-being depends on getting her out of your life completely.
Visiting a hornets nest once a week and getting stung is better than doing it daily, but the best thing is not to go near it at all!

Sorry, that was for MOGMOGMOG85, not OP!

Hi MOGMOGMOG85, so sorry to hear this sounds awful. I recommend the little shaman healing podcast for possible insights into your mums behaviour

Hi MOGMOGMOG85

Would you have tolerated this from a friend?. Probably not and your mother is actually no different.

Your mother was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed fundamentally since that time. The usual rule applies here; if a parent or relation is too toxic for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your child too. Keep your child well away from your mother going forward.

Its not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way.
Sending her such a message was pointless as you have seen and your friend ill advised you. I would have advised you to not send any communication at all because doing so further opens a door that should otherwise remain closed. Disordered of thinking people like your mother see things through a different lens to emotionally healthy people (she likely has a mix of personality disorders) and your message to her would have been seen as criticism and would have been seen as such no matter how carefully worded. It certainly gave her ammo to hit back at you with and she most certainly did.

Instead of seeking the necessary help she has merely chosen to enact similar on you with the result you are now floundering around and about in your own fear, obligation and guilt.

Re your comment:-
" would be grateful for any tips on how to keep my mum in my life but limit the impact she can have on me."

There are NO strategies you can use here other than have no contact at all with your mother going forward. Anything else will put you in her firing line and harm you further. You need space and time away from her in order to start the healing process. She will never be the nice person/parent you perhaps still want her to be, she will never give you the approval that you seek and you will need to stop hoping that she will change. Such people do not change.

Ultimately you will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. We all die eventually and its ultimately no reason at all why you should at all remain in contact with her. Do not go down that rabbit hole.

I am not altogether surprised your mother is a counsellor; some narcissistic people actively seek out such to have power and control over others. It makes them feel even more special.

Hi Sssloou

Its absolutely typical of narcissistic people to do this; they will keep searching for what they seek as the weakest link because she cannot contact you directly. In your case she is honing in on your children and ultimately they need to block her as well. She will try and actively turn them against you and wants to use them as a way of getting back at you. People like your sister as well never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Her state of mind also is NOT your responsibility. She can well rant and rave but apart from that what else can she do if none of you have any relationship or contact with her?. With you people out of the picture she will then turn on someone else within the family.

Your only mistake here was to at all allow your children any form of contact with her and now they are faced with severing that relationship. If a person is too toxic for YOU to deal with, its really the same deal for them too. You are the parent here and even though they are young adults now, they are still relying on you to show them good judgment.

@MOGMOGMOG85 - your experiences sound horrific. You have observed, analysed and categorised HER behaviours and motivations so much that you are stuck in this dynamic like a rabbit in the headlights.

You are trying to understand HER - to make sense of the senseless. You are in perpetual shock of how she behaves - even though it is entirely predictable and easily anticipated.

Switch your focus to YOU.

Why are you still engaging, why are you still
standing within punching distance? Do lots of work understanding the psyche of the abused child in adulthood.

This is the only section of the dynamics that you can control.

I understand that you are still locked in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) - and addictive trauma bonding with your original caregiver.

It’s v hard to turn your back and emotionally disconnect in your head from her and you will need expert professional support. You need to grieve for the mother you never had and drop the rope and the hope that this time it will be different.

Every time you get distressed you have adrenaline and cortisol rushing through your body - this is not good for your baby - so you need to think about how you step out of punching distance for baby’s sake if you are stuck for yourself.

Have a look at Pete Walkers website on cPTSD.

@AttilaTheMeerkat - thank you for the sense check:

She will try and actively turn them against you and wants to use them as a way of getting back at you. People like your sister as well never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Some how my magical thinking is that she is sorry - that she is trying to be friendly with my DCs so that she can be friendly with me. But as you say - it’s the opposite - they don’t accept, acknowledge, apologise - it’s the opposite she is doubling down as she has before to whoo them in closer - to get further punches and punishment in.

Oh the irony of my comments to MOG - knowing this all intellectually but also having that minuscule hope for resolution, normalcy, kindness and respect......my heart needs to get over itself and listen to my brain.

And I suppose that my urge to contact her to tell her to back off from my DCs is just playing into her hands and giving her the reaction she is trying to provoke? So block and NC always.

I had just come on here to say NC changed my life. It probably saved my life. I am so much happier, freer. Able to make progress and connections in my own life. Basically this thread opened my eyes and it has been so so worth it.
I was terrified initially and then agonized for a long time. Having come out the other side of the FOG I get to see what I'd missed out on my whole life. Thank you.
And MogMogMog step away from her, stop seeing it from her side. Protect yourself. Like you it was becoming a mother that opened my eyes to how my parents treated me. How awful it was and that it was wrong.

Hi, firstly apologies for not posting on here for ages after I received so much support and great advice back in May this year. (My posts were in the previous thread.) But, I wanted to update you all who were kind enough to reply to my posts and give me suggestions, insights and advice, and let you know briefly what has happened since then and where I am now.

I also want to thank Sunnie1992 especially for a comment she made about no amount of money being worth mental health or happiness ... I am not sure why that did get through my thick skull, but it really did ... so thank you, it did make me finally see and accept it as a huge truth, and I think it was a huge part of the reason why I, and my husband, have taken the decisions and actions we have.

Well, it's been hectic! One evening after reading some replies on here my husband found me crying, and asked what was wrong. Normally, in the past, I would have brushed him off, telling him something to set his mind at rest it wasn't him, or anything major or serious, just me being overly emotional. But this time, and I am still not sure why, I didn't. Instead I told him about my posts on here, and the support and advice I had received, and he asked to read them. I let him although I was very very nervous about how he would react.

We then talked all night ... really, all night, until dawn came up ... and by then he knew the whole thing. And he was amazingly supportive .... deeply shocked of course ... but made me understand in a way I hadn't before that he really was there for me, and nothing that I had experienced made him see me as ugly or damaged. That in itself was quite a revelation.

He then helped me see we needed to be practical about how to solve the situation. Over the next couple of months we went through our finances, found out more about the trust my GM made, and he also decided to retire one year earlier than he had planned. We sold our house in England (secretly through the internet instead of using a local agent my family would know) and bought a house in Spain with the help of a great friend of ours who lives there and did the viewings by video with us. We had a great Spanish lawyer who handled everything with our power of attorney, and it all got sorted in double quick time.

We packed up our things in early September and found a removals company who could move us despite Covid, and we moved in on the 9th of September. That is now officially called Liberation Day in our house!

Throughout all this we were very secretive, and told nobody in the family we were leaving the UK. On the day before we left, we phoned my parents on a speakerphone conference call. My husband did most of the talking. He told them in no uncertain terms that their treatment of me over the years had upset and annoyed him more than he could politely say, but that he had stayed quiet in order to support me. He then said that I had now found the situation impossible to bear any more without seriously damaging my mental health and that for my sake we had taken the decision to cut all ties with them. He also informed them that we had told the solicitor this, and that I had formally signed documents relinquishing any rights I had to inherit. He didn't let them get a word in. He ended by saying that he hoped that one day they would realise and regret the terrible things they had done, and the wonderful person they had lost from their lives due to their own behaviour and choices. Then he hung up. They rang and rang and rang for the next 24 hours, but we didn't answer the phone. (Actually, I gave him my mobile phone to keep during those hours we were waiting to leave the UK just so I wouldn't be tempted to answer it.)

And then we got in our car and left England for good. Here in Spain we have settled in great, and despite Brexit and Covid, have managed to get our Residencia for 5 years granted. Our little house is lovely, and I am so much happier and feel more free and unburdened than I would have thought was possible. I still wobble a bit, but now I know I can talk to my husband about it in a way I could never have done before. It is also so wonderful knowing that not one single person in my family knows where I am, or has my email, or phone number or anything. It is like being on the another planet, where nobody can touch me, such an incredible feeling!

And it is all thanks to you guys ... so thank you, thank you, thank you! Without the push I got from this site, and from all your varying posts of advice and support I don't think I would ever have been able to do any of this. Truly, you have helped me in ways you cannot imagine.

With so much gratitude and love,
SometimesIWish ... who now has had her wish granted in a most unexpected way

SometimesIWish

My best wishes to you both . The best revenge is indeed living well.

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat, truly, the support and help you, and all the other posters on this thread, give to others is amazing, and for my part, I hope you know how much of a difference your posts make to other people.

Wow, what a lovely ending, you sound like you and your husband have a very strong relationship

@Stonecrop : Thank you. Yes, I got lucky with him ... we've had ups and downs of course, but we've always been there for each other. I just never realised how much he was there for me until he suggested we leave the UK and start a new life so I could have the distance and separation from my family I so desperately needed.

@RiveterRosie it can take some time to detach from the guilt. Have you got anyone to talk to about this? It's a bit of a strange time for practically everyone at the moment with restrictions.

I've found things have improved with my mother, combination of going LC and not being affected as much if she goes off on one. I find I'm not as frazzled as much.

@SometimesIwish I think I remember your earlier posts. I'm so glad you've found peace. You truly deserve it. The response you had also got me thinking about the balance of a dangling potential inheritance that could be snatched away and dangled to keep me in the whipping boy scapegoat role. I've since distanced and my MH is so much better. I haven't been in tears once since as the 'family' are currently 'teaching me a lesson' by very publicly snubbing me. Which is fine as little do they know I'm mentally NC so when they decide that they need someone to dump their vitriol on, it won't be me. I'll be 60 at the end of next month and started the year fearful of how it would be ruined in some way yet now, I'm in the zone to see their action - let's face it, it's probablygoing to be inaction - with a degree of detachment that will allow the hurt to wash over and not land. They don't even need to know that. I have name changed on here many times as I don't want to be identified it the support I've received has been so life affirming. It has had a profound impact on my life, given me the motivation to find an excellent online counsellor and start my healing journey. Big love to @AttilaTheMeerkat for her consistently affirming posts.

@MOGMOGMOG85 quoting your post(sorry I can't get it to do the bold text on here):