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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Marriage - will he change his mind?

188 replies

holdmysocks · 18/09/2020 13:12

I've been with DP for a year, we are now talking about moving in together. However, he has always hinted that he doesn't want to get married. We spoke about it early on, but as we disagreed I said best to wait a few years before even having the conversation... Stupid in hindsight.

I really want to get married, I know it's not for everyone but it's important to me. I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone have experience with a partner who said he didn't want to get married but ended up changing his mind? I can't decide whether to move in and continue to see how it goes, if this is a normal male thing to say, or have a serious chat with him.

OP posts:
Graphista · 19/09/2020 13:41

Several studies also show that even while still together co-habiting parents the father is less involved in parenting and less supportive of the mother and child.

iguanadonna · 19/09/2020 13:41

Does he know it's important to you?

CatherinedeBourgh · 19/09/2020 13:49

I know a couple who were exactly like this. They had two dc while unmarried.

Then one day they just got married, after about 10 years. She had fully accepted they never would, but he changed his mind.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 19/09/2020 14:09

If you want to be together, a piece of paper and a party really doesn't need to factor into it. @JorisBonson

Wow, you really didn't, and still don't, understand the true meaning of marriage, did you? If that's all you you view it as, no wonder you didn't think past the actual wedding day . It does sound like you bought into the romantic, "big occasion" aspect of a wedding day, rather than the marriage itself.

Marriage is really to be taken very seriously indeed. It is a major legal commitment to each other, and a tying together of 2 people's lives and financial affairs. Why else would gay people have fought so hard to get gay marriage legalised, beyond even a civil partnership? I wish those stupid TV wedding programmes would just fuck off and stop warping young women's minds about what marriage actually is.

People say "oh, but you can go to a solicitor and draw up papers setting out rights to half the house etc in the event of a split - you don't need to get married." I shall never understand that argument because that is EXACTLY what marriage is for. It's there, in the legal system, already providing what you're going to a solicitor for.

You don't even need to have a bloody wedding! Just the legal marriage ceremony part, and that can be done without any fuss at a registry office, with minimal guests, and a couple of drinks afterwards.

I guess because I view it as a very serious commitment, OP, and don't even value a "Shall we get engaged?" unless a date is set, then for me, I would assume that if my boyfriend didn't want to be married to me then I wasn't the woman for him.

Perhaps I've come to that decision because when DH and I first started dating at 23, he said for the first couple of weeks of dating, that he was never getting married, his ex had wanted to and the pressure had just made him want to split up. They did split up. As we had only just started dating i didn't think further of it, especially as I wasn't into serious relationships at that time and had been happy on my own prior to meeting him. Within 2-3 weeks he had stopped talking about never wanting to settle down, and was starting to say things like "I think with my ex, in hindsight it wasn't marriage generally I was against, I just didn't want to get married to HER." So that, along with other things he said, meant it wasn't too much of a surprise when I year later he proposed without warning.

He didn't ask me to get engaged. He got out the ring and specifically said "I want it to be an engagement ring because I want to marry you, I want to spend the rest of my life with you, have the family, house, get old together, the whole thing. Let's set a date. (But if you don't want all that, then it can just be a nice present.)" Grin

I sometimes wonder what would have happened had I said no. I think he knew what the answer would have been though, deep down.

I have seen and heard it so many times - the man saying he doesn't believe in marriage etc, doesn't see the need for it. Then he meets someone else and they're married within a year or two.

You really really need to make sure that you're not just the stand in for the real thing, OP. Try and make him see that, and let him decide what he views you as in as honest a way as possible so that you know exactly where you are.

Cherrylipbalm · 19/09/2020 14:12

I never understand why you'd bother spending time or having a baby with a man who is clearly not interested in committing legally or making you happy.
I mean this generally. I mean this about my friends.
How could anyone be ok with just going along accepting their partner won't marry them if you do?
My friend after years of trying to get her partner to propose decided to get pregnant instead. So they have a baby and she's back asking for him to propose.
Confused
I think men like the idea of having kids, it's less of a stress for them knowing they can walk away from the mother if need be. Being legally tied to someone is fare more scary because you're held accountable.

sugarlost · 19/09/2020 14:21

I know someone who was desperate to get married at one point, many of her friends were also getting married at that time. Boyfriend said no so she said baby or marriage...he said baby.

They have a baby and he doesn’t appear to respect her...I don’t think he ever did. I think part of his reason is finances and if they spilt up once married.

OP your young. I hope things work out for you wherever decision you make.

KatherineJaneway · 19/09/2020 14:31

scare him off

Either you want the same things in life or he is not the right man for you. Nothing to do with 'scaring him off.

Requinblanc · 19/09/2020 14:48

Why do you really want to get married?

is it because you want to have kids? it makes you feel less secure?

Or is it because you think your partner will be less likely to leave if you are married?

I would start by looking at the reasons for that.

Trying to force/blackmail someone to change their mind is a very immature way to behave.

I am not a fan of marriage to say the least, not because of any issues with being faithful/monogamous, to me it is just a bureaucratic formality. And very hard to get out of if you end up choosing the wrong person.

TruffleMama · 19/09/2020 14:51

@Graphista

Yes I am taking maternity leave. 52 weeks, which DP fully supports and encourages

and if you split he doesn't have to continue that support leaving you and child screwed, lots of couples especially unmarried ones split in that tough 1st year of parenthood.

If he becomes incapacitated or dies in that time you could also find you're screwed then too.

18 weeks at full pay. Then 21 weeks SMP. Then unpaid leave until I return to work. meaning after the first 18 weeks you and your child ARE financially dependent on him with no real protections

Not sure what our marriage status has to do with any of the above?! it means you have zero legal standing if he reneges or is unable to support in any way THAT is the difference.

@Graphista

I think it's good to plan/prepare for worst case scenario, but life isn't always full of negative after negative for everyone. My DP and I may well stay together, happily unmarried. Maybe we'll get married one day. I would like to get married, but it doesn't matter too greatly to me either way if we do or don't get married. If we do get married, it will be because it's something we both want to do and not solely for financial security!

Yes, if we split, he doesn't have to continue supporting us ...so it's a good job I haven't decided to have a child with a selfish twat!

DP says in cases where parents have split, he finds it disgusting that a man could leave the ex partner and DC in a dire financial situation. He says if the mother is struggling financially, the DC will also suffer the consequences and he can't understand how any man could stand by and let that happen.

Hopefully neither of us will become incapacitated or unexpectedly die. If the worst were to happen.. we have life insurance. We also have extra life insurance policies through work due to the nature of our jobs. We are both listed as the beneficiary on each others policies - there is no requirement for us to be married.

Nope.. after my first 18 weeks of fully paid maternity leave I am not financially dependent on DP. I have substantial savings that could easily see me through the rest of my maternity leave.
DP doesn't want me to have to eat into my savings which is why he is working all the overtime he can at the moment. We've both been saving and will both contribute as evenly as possible during my SMP and unpaid maternity leave. But.. in worst case scenario, I am financially secure.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 19/09/2020 14:54

I am not a fan of marriage to say the least, not because of any issues with being faithful/monogamous, to me it is just a bureaucratic formality. And very hard to get out of if you end up choosing the wrong person.

Hard to get out of? In what way? Out of the marriage itself? That's what the divorce process is there for. It works. By "very difficult to get out of" do you mean it can be long and drawn out if one party contests something? The idea is that the law ensures that assets are split fairly. Often the disagreement is because one side has unreasonable expectations over what they or the other side is entitled to. So it can take a while to smooth all that out.

M00vi3Night3 · 19/09/2020 14:55

He is telling you loud & clear that he doesn't want marriage

If marriage is what you want, he is not the man for you

LilyWater · 19/09/2020 15:46

@TruffleMama

Marriage isn't just about the event of divorce, there are important differences between unmarried and married couples even when you stay together (check citizens advice).

The vital thing people also forget is that the other person can change any of these unmarried agreements, such as wills, life insurance, without your knowledge at ANY time (e.g. if the relationship hits a rough patch) so it's no real security at all as it's all you have. With marriage, in contrast, you have legal rights that are enshrined by law.

Out of interest, if your DP is so adamant you and kids should not be left in bad financial situations in the event of splitting and is not scared off by the fact that marriage would give you and your children legal rights he's unable to change, surely there is no reason at all why he wouldn't want marry you?

TruffleMama · 19/09/2020 15:53

@LilyWater

Out of interest, if your DP is so adamant you and kids should not be left in bad financial situations in the event of splitting and is not scared off by the fact that marriage would give you and your children legal rights he's unable to change, surely there is no reason at all why he wouldn't want marry you?

My DP hasn't at any point said that he doesn't want to marry me.

Graphista · 19/09/2020 15:54

I am not a fan of marriage to say the least, not because of any issues with being faithful/monogamous, to me it is just a bureaucratic formality. And very hard to get out of if you end up choosing the wrong person. I suspect this is a case of "the poster doth protest too much"

but life isn't always full of negative after negative for everyone. no...but every relationship DOES end in some way - either a split or one dies - and marriage provides protection at those times

so it's a good job I haven't decided to have a child with a selfish twat! oh boy!

Let me guess - you think ALL we single mums that have had issues with our exes over the dc had fair warning they'd be "selfish twats" prior to having those dc?! That we ALL stupidly deliberately chose poor fathers? It must be nice to be so perfect!

My ex gave absolutely NO indication of how he would be post divorce in the 13 years I knew him prior to splitting, the character change was so profound his own family and close friends from childhood genuinely believed he was having a breakdown! Prior to even marriage he was heavily critical of deadbeat dads. While married finances were pooled and chores done equally and he was an involved and adoring father to dd...

...within DAYS of the split due to his cheating he:

Emptied the joint bank accounts KNOWING I had no other source of money NOR another account for people to transfer money to.

Took the family car without telling me at some point after midnight that night leaving me stranded with a toddler in the arse end of nowhere!

On a separate day removed valuables from the family home without my knowledge or agreement including jewellery which were family heirlooms from MY family

Turned up still drunk/hungover for "contact" with dd, stinking of booze and fags and looking like he hadn't so much as washed his face! Very likely over the drink drive limit he could barely stand properly and yet he expected me to hand over dd for him to drive her over 20 miles to see his parents!

His parents later that day called me to apologise for the state he was in and told me they'd had words with him themselves. They sounded sort of in shock!

There's a saying

You don't really know someone until you divorce them and ime that's very true.

Of the other single mums I have met along the way, who were also blindsided by the change in their exes, that I have come across along the way I have heard of:

Businesses jointly owned being closed down and sold (illegally) staff made redundant etc behind their backs

Family homes EMPTIED when the mum and children were out at work/school including the children's furniture, clothes, toys, tech etc and given to new woman's dc - this I've heard of a few times!

Bank accounts emptied and valuables taken...

To be honest if you go on certain Male dominated online forums you will actually see such things being suggested to others as if it's perfectly acceptable and normal to treat your ex and your CHILDREN in this way, in fact this is VERY much the TAME end of the spectrum! Some of the stuff suggested is absolutely vile and I won't repeat!

DP says in cases where parents have split, he finds it disgusting that a man could leave the ex partner and DC in a dire financial situation. He says if the mother is struggling financially, the DC will also suffer the consequences and he can't understand how any man could stand by and let that happen.

This was EXACTLY what my ex was like prior to split - To the point he ended one friendship because the guy was "haggling" with his ex over a paltry child maintenance settlement (this was prior to csa).

If the worst were to happen.. we have life insurance. We also have extra life insurance policies through work due to the nature of our jobs. We are both listed as the beneficiary on each others policies - there is no requirement for us to be married. which either of you can change without informing the other of, let alone without their agreement.

But.. in worst case scenario, I am financially secure.

Very much relieved to hear that. Are your savings only accessible by you?

1WildTeaParty · 19/09/2020 16:05

I suppose you have to ask yourself (honestly) whether it is marriage he doesn't want... or marriage to you.

Whatever his excuses, is it possible that he just seeing your relationship as 'good enough for now but not forever'?

Men who are determinedly against marriage, can suddenly meet a new woman and marry at once.

Be sure about what you want - and deserve. Go for that.

Don't think that he is the only man for you and don't think that you have to settle for being his 'just good enough for now'.

bunnyonthemantle · 19/09/2020 17:56

This thread is a good warning as to what your future may hold if you move in with this guy.

Have I compromised too much - opinions please www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4027586-Have-I-compromised-too-much-opinions-please#100128709

MyCatHatesEverybody · 19/09/2020 18:45

I have also witnessed very similar examples to the ones that Graphista has given regarding the change in previously decent people's behaviour during/after separation. Conversely my ExH, whilst abusive and controlling during marriage, behaved like a perfect gentleman when it came to our divorce. You absolutely cannot predict how anyone will behave in the throes of separation.

frazzledasarock · 19/09/2020 19:46

I third fourth and fifth Graphistas last post.

I’ve lost count of the women who’ve been left utterly destitute by their ex’s emptying joint bank accounts and clearing out the family home/kicking (female) partner out and constantly changing jobs/working cash in hand/working for OW claiming she pays them very basic things become etc. Whilst swanning around in flash cars taking several holidays a year wearing designer clothes whilst the ex and children are in severe financial dire straits.

There is absolutely no guarantee, a man of previously supposedly noble principles won’t turn into the lowest scum when scrabbling to ensure his ex is punished for the temerity of leaving him.

Otherwise why would their be so very many female single parents struggling financially?

It’s your partner is so principled and honest. I’d still lay the foundations expecting the worst if the relationship broke down. Or if you’re the lower earning partner and main child carer I would get married. It does provide financial security if the worse happens.

Marriage is a legal contact as far as I’m concerned I don’t care about romance and all that crap. I want myself and my children to be secure. And marriage provides that. In the cold light of day when couples split you do need legal recourse to ensure you and your children are fairly provided for financially.

Life insurance policies and all that can be changed very easily.

MulticolourMophead · 19/09/2020 19:52

I agree.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I also got shafted by my ex.

Graphista · 19/09/2020 22:09

@MyCatHatesEverybody yes I've known a few cases like yours too, I think in those cases perhaps last ditch attempts to reel victims back in?

You absolutely cannot predict how anyone will behave in the throes of separation. so so true

Some of the things I've heard so so shocking.

I third fourth and fifth Graphistas last post  ahh bless you thank you

Seriously to those who think marriage is pointless please do go on male dominated forums (I daren't name in conjunction with this as I think it'd get me in bother! But they're easy enough to find) and you'll see that this "advice" to empty bank accounts, hide savings, make income appear falsely low (to purposely have low assessment of child maintenance amounts) etc is given out in those places as much if not more so than Ltb and ducks in a row here which frankly is why I think places like mn are SO important!

Otherwise why would their be so very many female single parents struggling financially? exactly! And there ARE A Lot of us that have been treated dreadfully by our exes.

Mine has got away with stuff, but the emptying the bank accounts, taking the car, taking the valuables...

It took a while but he had to pay me back for all that...because we were married!

If we'd not been I'd have not had a leg to stand on!

I met a woman shortly after our split had been in a co-habiting relationship for 16 years, had 2 dc with him. He'd led her to believe that "common law" marriage was a real thing and so there was "no need to go to the bother and expense of a big wedding", following their split he kicked her out of the family home (rented in his name only cos "you don't want the hassle of sorting the rent and chasing the landlord for repairs"), kept the family car which they both paid for but was in his name (cos "you don't want the hassle of dealing with mots and insurance and all that") and all the furnishings - which he had receipts for and she couldn't prove her contributions. He also, prior to my turning up and fucking him up, had managed to persuade her not to attempt to get cm as he said he'd just say he didn't believe he was the father and she'd have to pay £1000 per child for a dna test before she could even start a claim. He had her utterly convinced that everything he'd done was legal and fair, she didn't think she could consult a lawyer as they weren't married and she didn't know who to ask for advice and her family and close friends were just as clueless to be honest. I was able to set her straight on the child maintenance and she got some money out of him but then he moved into a lower paid job, I think at least partly just to spite her which is ridiculous!

One woman I met the guy made off with as much cash and easily saleable goods as he could from their business, which not only screwed her over but their customers - wedding related business! (I used to work in the industry) that one was even in the news locally! I was dealing with some of the frantic customers! He fucked off to Asia! 30 years they'd been together. Weirdly (considering the business they were in) not married. Sod all she could do and she got left dealing with the mess he left behind.

@MulticolourMophead There's too damn many of us!

Sunflower1970 · 19/09/2020 22:21

I think women sometimes think they will be the one who will change a man’s mind. He seems pretty clear at the age of 31 he doesn’t want marriage. Do you want to give him your best years trying to convince him? You might have to accept that your life goals are different and, painful as it is, move on.

RantyAnty · 19/09/2020 22:45

OP if you want marriage, this guy isn't the one. He's old enough and it's been long enough to know if he wants to be with you or not.
Every additional amount of time spent with him, is time wasted on finding someone better who wants what you want now and not a maybe x years down the road.

I've noticed men can be very cruel and vicious when leaving. They often put themselves, their ego, and hurt feelings first. Emptying bank accounts, kicking the woman and children out in the cold, stealing anything that isn't nailed down. What they say and what they actually do can be very different.

@TruffleMama if you set up the appointment at the register office and ask him to go, what would he do? If he's not bothered either way, he'd go.

TruffleMama · 20/09/2020 11:02

@RantyAnty

if you set up the appointment at the register office and ask him to go, what would he do? If he's not bothered either way, he'd go.

He would go if he knew it was what I really wanted. However, that's not what I want.. if we decide to get married, I don't want it to be a case of "let's see what date is free in the diary so we can go get the formalities out of the way for the sake of financial stability" ...how depressing!
DP is old fashioned. Describes himself as being born in the wrong era. I think he would be disappointed if I just sprung a register office booking on him. He is the type that would like to have made a proposal and would want to arrange a wedding together to plan a day to celebrate with friends and family. If I'm honest, I'd like it that way too.

FinallyHere · 20/09/2020 12:02

@TruffleMama

Lots of women think that their partner is different, they they are special and would treat you decently.

DP says in cases where parents have split, he finds it disgusting that a man could leave the ex partner and DC in a dire financial situation

I sincerely hope that you stay together and the question never arises. There are however proportionally so many threads here on MN where the wife is totally gobsmacked, never thought it would happen to me etc. It's not just about support in future, are all current and future savings and assets in joint names?

Even if you stay together, what are the chances of the first to die having assets above the allowance free of Inheritance tax?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/09/2020 12:11

"DP is old fashioned".

Yeah right. And it never fails to amaze me how many women say this about their man or state he or her own self is otherwise traditional Not so old fashioned then as to bring a child into the relationship before marriage. In many such scenarios too the child carries his surname.

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