Marriage - will he change his mind?

[holdmysocks]

I've been with DP for a year, we are now talking about moving in together. However, he has always hinted that he doesn't want to get married. We spoke about it early on, but as we disagreed I said best to wait a few years before even having the conversation... Stupid in hindsight.

I really want to get married, I know it's not for everyone but it's important to me. I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone have experience with a partner who said he didn't want to get married but ended up changing his mind? I can't decide whether to move in and continue to see how it goes, if this is a normal male thing to say, or have a serious chat with him.

As a PP said, when a man tells you he doesn't want to get married, believe him. My DP told me early on he didn't believe in marriage and didn't feel the need for it and I really thought he'd change his mind. He didn't. He wasn't a commitment-phobe though - he'd been with his previous girlfriend for 10 years. So I had to weigh up what was important to me and I wasn't fussed about a wedding and I'd rather be unmarried to him than marry someone I didn't feel as strongly about. Fifteen years later, I know I made the right choice.

But before everyone wades in with the doom-mongering about not having financial protection when you're not married – when we bought a house together we had our solicitor draw up papers detailing what we would get if we ever split to make sure it was equal. If you do decide to stick around unmarried, I suggest you do the same. Or have a civil partnership.

You need to discuss this with him though, he might be dead set against marriage. He might be in the group that dont really care either way, so would marry you if he realised it was important to you. But best discuss this now.

If he is against marriage, get him to tell you why. Be prepared to hear he wants it to be easier to leave the relationship. Therefore you may find he's also not happy to have legal protections put in place for you that will also make ending the relationship with you hard/expensive.

You've had some really good advice here. Set your stall out, tellh im you've got no intention of living with a man indefinately and that marriage and children is your goal and not necessarily with him.

OP I'm sorry to say but at your age I was in the exact same position as you, same age difference same dilemma. I stayed with him until I was 25.

Everytime he took me away on holiday I expected a proposal even though he had said repeatedly that he didnt want to get married.

I eventually gave up and left. He's still not married.

You need to discuss it. After a year you must both know if you want to be together or not (I assume you do as you are thinking of living together) so a discussion about the future would be normal.

I thought living together was usually meant to be a sort of run up or practice for marriage?

I don't understand why couples don't discuss things like marriage, children etc. Certainly after a year you should have had these discussions. Me and DH were married 5 months after meeting and we had discussed what we both wanted in our futures

If you know this is what you want OP then stay in your own home and don’t move in together.

Nope! To be honest I think moving in after just a year is too soon anyway.

Especially at his age.

His mum went through a messy divorce so that's what's putting him off from what I gather that’s not a reason. That’s an excuse.

I don't doubt his commitment what commitment? He’s committing NOTHING to you that’s the whole point

Marriage provides important protection to the lower earner (and by extension any children) not only in case of separation but if anything happens to the higher earner (incapacity or death)

It’s not just a piece of paper, it’s an important legal and financial contract.

Certainly our govt views co-habiting couples differently to married couples on many official legal and financial matters.

And yes I’m afraid it may be a case of he simply doesn’t see himself marrying you - as pp said that’s not a reflection on either of you just how he honestly feels.

I was clear with now ex that I wanted marriage and certainly marriage before kids, I had reasons in my family history too having seen a relative’s life completely upended when her live in partner died young and intestate. I didn’t have romanticised views on marriage for that reason and also because my parents marriage is abusive.

Yes I’m now divorced, but if I hadn’t been married my ex would have got away with even more than he did!

It also (I’ll get flamed for this but unfortunately it’s still true) meant dealing with anything official for dd was easier and quicker, and to be honest a bit less stigmatised than it is for single mums who haven’t been married - that’s the bit I’ll get flamed for but I’ve seen how my sister has been treated by drs, teachers etc as a single mum who’d never been married and while I too had idiots be prejudicial it wasn’t to the extent she had it. It’s not right by any means and I would (and did) absolutely speak up for ANYONE being treated this way but unfortunately that prejudice still exists in some areas/with some people.

I think people would be much happier talking about the issues honestly earlier on. definitely

Absolutely astounds me the amount of couples who move in together and even get married and even have children without fully and honestly discussing various obvious deal breakers:

finances, chores, if/when to have dc, religion (if likely to be an issue eg whether children will be raised in a particular religion), career plans... hell we even discussed things like our feelings on organ donation and life support type decisions! (Admittedly he was army and they’re encouraged to discuss and make known to those likely to be making the decisions on such things due to the nature of their work - particularly true in Exs case)

Seems obvious to me that it’s sensible to do so to establish compatibility.

In my experience, men in their 30s who date women in their early 20s are hoping to get a good few years out of them before they start talking marriage and babies. Once they do, they high tail it out of there PDQ. that’s my experience too

What more does marriage offer than being in a committed relationship in all honesty? multiple legal and financial protections for both parties but particularly protects the most vulnerable party and not just in the event of separation/divorce (and married couples are still less likely to split than co-habiting ones statistically) but also if one becomes incapacitated or dies.

@cosmicbabe do you and/or your partner have assets? Including your home? It can be very tricky to keep your home if the higher/only earner dies and the remaining partner can’t afford to keep paying the mortgage. Yes it can also be a bit tricky if you’re married but generally less so as laws all over the Uk are pretty clear on inheritance rules for a spouse - they’re pretty non existent for a partner.

It's fine to not want to get married, but it's important to know your legal rights (or lack thereof)

This is the crux

For some - I would say a minority - of mners/women marriage is not advised due to their particular circumstances and that of their partner.

But for most who have the usual set of circumstances in this patriarchal country/world it is foolish not to marry especially (but not only) if children are planned.

What does the moving in together look like?
Are you renting? Buying a place together? Are you moving in with him, he moving in with you?

If you're buying together, having the getting married conversation is a natural one.
Have you had any conversations about pooling money? Do you earn more or does he?

Although not very romantic all these things should be discussed before you move in together, it's not unreasonable to know how money & assets will be dealt with, which sort of leads naturally to the wedding conversation.

@Graphista I don't think moving in together after a year is too quick. You should know after a year, if not sooner, whether you want the relationship to carry on, get married etc.

Also what do you mean by "at his age"? He is 31 not 21. If he is not old enough to live with someone or marry them when will he be?

My DH was 23 when we got married (I was 26). If you know you want to spend the rest of your life with someone what difference does it make how old you are?

Yes I worded the "at his age" part badly looking at it - it's because I edited a bit in the previous paragraph.

I meant he's unlikely to change his mind at his age on marriage. He's old enough to know what he thinks/feels.

Re 1 year too soon - it's very much still the honeymoon period certainly biochemically speaking, the rose tinted glasses and best behaviour are generally still in place.

I think a couple needs to go through a crisis or 2 and see each other not at their best before moving in together.

Just my opinion and I'm not the only pp to say so

@Graphista oh yes I can agree about his age meaning he is unlikely to change his mind about marriage.

Sorry but I don't agree that a year is not long enough to know someone although I guess it depends how often they see each other.

Me and DH married 5 months after meeting but we saw each other every day after the first week even if only for a short time. DH worked shifts so we might meet for breakfast or lunch if his shift meant we could not see each other in the evening.

We didn't live together first. Actually I suggested living together first but DH was adamant he wanted to be married as we had both lived with someone before so he wanted our relationship to be different and "special".

We have been married 40 years and are very happy so it worked for us

I know a couple where he didn't want kids and didn't want to get married, she stayed thinking he'd change his mind. They've now been together nearly 20 years, married and have kids. People change.

They've now been together nearly 20 years, married and have kids. People change.

Were they surprise babies? That helps get a ring on it sometimes.

Why would he change his mind? If he’s told you he doesn’t want to get married he very likely means it. I’m a 31 year old woman, I do not want to ever get married (or have kids) I’m currently single but I make this very clear to everyone I date. It’s not a question of not wanting it with a certain person, I don’t want it with ANYONE.

Nope. My dh asked me to move in with him. My response was 'oh no. I'm old fashioned. Living in sin isn't on my wish list' ( I'm not religious but he got the message). He proposed about three months later. Married 6 months after that.
Never move in with men if you want to get married. The fact he's told you he doesn't want marriage though is a bad sign. I would date others.

I made the mistake of thinking marriage wasn't necessary. It is, especially for a woman who is the lower earner when she has DC. I found that out the hard way.

OP, have the conversation. You need to. Unless he agrees that marriage is definitely in your future, I'd dump and find someone who is on your page. Don't fall for "possibly", "maybe" or anything like that, these are just words to fool you into thinking he's changed his mind.

But realistically, if he's "hinted" at not wanting to get married, enough that you've picked up on it, then believe him.

Try -
I've been thinking a lot recently. I definitely see marriage to the right man in my future. What are your own thoughts on marriage? If we are on totally separate pages should we really be moving in together?

Very good advice 👌

@holdmysocks

I guess I'm just thinking that if I give him an ultimatum this early on then it will scare him off and he'll automatically say no, whereas if we get further down the line he'll be more up for it.

You've been with him a year. Enough time for him to know whether you're someone he'd want to marry (in principle at the very least).

He doesn't "believe" in marriage. Right. But I bet he believes in sex before marriage, in couples living together, in the woman putting her health, her prospects and her body on the line having his children, in the woman sacrificing herself to provide him with emotional and other support, in the woman cooking, cleaning and sharing domestic duties in the home, in the woman taking ALL the risk of having his children outside of marriage etc etc etc.

So you see, he's not against the BENEFITS of marriage, he only wants just you (and any future children) to be the one to take on the risks and consequences of him not committing to you legally. While he has his cake and eats it.

Run a mile and find a man who values you enough to make that commitment, and cannot wait to make you his wife.

@MulticolourMophead

I made the mistake of thinking marriage wasn't necessary. It is, especially for a woman who is the lower earner when she has DC. I found that out the hard way.

OP, have the conversation. You need to. Unless he agrees that marriage is definitely in your future, I'd dump and find someone who is on your page. Don't fall for "possibly", "maybe" or anything like that, these are just words to fool you into thinking he's changed his mind.

But realistically, if he's "hinted" at not wanting to get married, enough that you've picked up on it, then believe him.

Unfortunately in these sorts of conversations, a lot of men don't want to give up what they already have (i.e. the sex and relationship benefits with no commitment) so they mislead the woman into thinking that marriage either is, or could be, on the horizon. This has the doubly beneficial effect of keeping the woman right where he wants her, and also keeping her on "good behaviour" as she's expectant that an engagement should be forthcoming in due course and is keen for this to happen.

Of course she can't "pressure" him, no no no, especially as she thinks they've already had the "conversation " so she hangs on willingly, ignoring her own desires and timescales, while he strings her along in the meantime, often for years on end.
Seen this SO many times, with frequently the woman losing fertile years and then rushing to find a suitable man who they may not have settled for if they had more time, or missing out on children altogether.

This one at least has given OP hints (i.e. clear warnings from a male perspective) that no marriage is forthcoming, and this is even during the honeymoon period when couples are all lovely dovey! Regardless of what he comes out with in any conversation she'd be a fool to stay.

@holdmysocks

BlokeHereInPeace I suppose because once we've lived together for a bit and are a proper team he wouldn't find the prospect so scary? His mum went through a messy divorce so that's what's putting him off from what I gather, and his dad has never been married so it's not really something that's expected in his family.

I don't doubt his commitment, just that he doesn't want/need to seal it with marriage.

The whole point of marriage IS commitment.

No other living situation gives you the legal commitment that marriage does. At ANY point in an unmarried relationship if he decided tomorrow to up and leave you with absolutely nothing, he can do so. Where's the "commitment" in that exactly?
Not so with marriage, until legal obligations which protect you and any children are fulfilled.

It's not just about divorce, if you remain married, you have multiple legal rights which unmarried couples do not have. Check out citizens advice bureau.

Tbh OP, as you're 24 you could potentially give him a couple of years and reevaluate further down the line.. The obvious problem with that would be the break up if he still didn't

The other point I meant to make is that if you choose to stay with him, you are also excluding meeting and having a relationship with other men who are better suited to you (who may then go on to marry others). Men who are good fun, kind, attractive, and want to commit are not in abundant supply at all and will naturally settle down as time goes on. As you get older there are fewer and fewer of these men. I'm not saying you should rush and settle down now at all but it was something I did not appreciate enough when I was your age. If you want to get married and have kids at some point, absolutely do NOT waste ANY time with men who are already saying they dont want the same as you.

When I met my exP I told him I never wanted to get married. He said ok but obviously didn't really believe me and was sure I'd change my mind eventually.

I never had even the tiniest wobble about it and was definitely never going to change my mind and his cajoling was irritating as I'd always been upfront about how I felt.

Dumped him for something totally unrelated in the end but his conviction that I really did want to get married deep down definitely added tension and annoyance.

I would agree with Lilywater. In the next few years you want to be married and have a family. Your 24 and your boyfriend is 31. He has told you that he does not want to get married but he wants to live with you.
He is telling you that your good enough to live with, support me, give me sex, help me pay the bills and be their when I need a partner for social events.
If you live with him your thinking if I give him sometime he will change his mind which won't happen. Meanwhile the decent guys who want marriage and kids are meeting ladies who want the same.
I saw a relative of mine getting involved with a man like your boyfriend. She wasted years with him and he never wanted to get married or have kids. When she realised this they broke up but she want back to him. She is now in her early 50's single and childess.
I would also agree with some of the other posts here that it important to be married if you have a kid/kids as it gives you better legal rights if any unforeseen circumstances were to happen.
I know a couple who are not living in the UK. They have a child together and he is the main earner. I don't think her name is even on the has a number of underlying health conditions. He has been in hospital a few times over the past few months including of h