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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Marriage - will he change his mind?

188 replies

holdmysocks · 18/09/2020 13:12

I've been with DP for a year, we are now talking about moving in together. However, he has always hinted that he doesn't want to get married. We spoke about it early on, but as we disagreed I said best to wait a few years before even having the conversation... Stupid in hindsight.

I really want to get married, I know it's not for everyone but it's important to me. I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone have experience with a partner who said he didn't want to get married but ended up changing his mind? I can't decide whether to move in and continue to see how it goes, if this is a normal male thing to say, or have a serious chat with him.

OP posts:
Rainbowqueeen · 19/09/2020 04:06

No I don’t think he will change his mind.
I also wouldn’t stick around to find out. The only loser in that situation is you. Put yourself first.

No man is worth compromising your life goals for

Absolutely talk to him but listen very carefully to what he says. Does he clearly understand the distinction for both of you between getting married and living together. What does he plan to do about those issues eg next of kin Can he explain why he thinks it is ok to put his children (if that is a consideration) in a potentially vulnerable situation? If he can’t answer those questions then don’t move in.

hobbyhobby · 19/09/2020 05:00

He will not change his mind. You will drive yourself into the ground trying to change his mind and waste precious years that could be spent finding somebody who does want to marry you.
Do not move in with him without being on the same page and do not have a child without being married. The worst thing you can do is ignore this, in your shoes, I’d split up and find someone more open

remainin · 19/09/2020 05:24

I moved in with my then boyfriend when I was in my mid-20s. He was one year older. He was clear from the outset that he didn't want to get married. I also thought that living together would make him change his mind. I was so wrong! All went well for awhile, maybe a year or so, and then I became increasingly frustrated as he was still adamant that he didn't want marriage. So we argued and I cried and on and on it went until we split up. Messily.
I eventually married someone else but he never did.

Staringpoodleplottingrottie · 19/09/2020 07:50

**Meanwhile the decent guys who want marriage and kids are meeting ladies who want the same.

Why the insinuation that guys who don’t want marriage or kids aren’t decent? People are perfectly entitled not to want these things and it sounds like he’s mentioned this early on and isn’t stringing OP along.

MrsBobDylan · 19/09/2020 08:03

An ex-partner and I had a similar issue and after 6 years, he still couldn't commit to marriage and kids.

I left him and he then said "I was thinking I would have liked to get married". It made me realise how controlling he was and that he would have used the promise of marriage and kids as leverage. In hindsight he was very controlling and a complete knob and in lots of other ways too.

If getting married and having kids is important to you, end the relationship.

movingonup20 · 19/09/2020 08:20

Have a serious conversation about hopes and dreams for the future, (other stuff not just marriage and kids) and see where the conversation leads. You are young, no hurry, but establish that if you are still together in 5 years time it's the track you are on.

MaudebeGonne · 19/09/2020 08:27

I wouldn't move in with him. You have been dating for a year, you aren't sure where it is going, all the evidence shows that women's end up doing the majority of housework. Just carry on dating for a bit longer from your separate homes and really think about whether you want to be with him for the rest of your life. Who is the driving force behind living together?

Hollyhocksarenotmessy · 19/09/2020 08:31

Dont bank on changing his mind. It doesnt make him a bad person.

I'm the one who refuses to get married. I love DP, I'm committed to him, I just dont want to get married again. He is sad about that but accepts it.

Our situation is different to yours. We are middle aged, our separate kids are grown up, we are not financially reliant on each other. In your shoes, young, hoping for children, building a long family life together, the potential impact on your career and finances when you have children, the financial vulnerability if you split up - marriage is the only wise choice. It wont be to him, sorry.

TikTakTikTak · 19/09/2020 08:43

Your comment about him finding marriage less scary after living together made me laugh. It's not like you're asking to introduce a man eating tiger into the relationship. If he's "scared" it means he just doesn't want to and is not the one.

I told my boyfriend that I expected marriage and was not interested in a long term relationship without it when we got together. I was 22 and he 25, we were married four years later.

Myotherusernamewastakenagain · 19/09/2020 08:50

@AnneLovesGilbert

They've now been together nearly 20 years, married and have kids. People change.

Were they surprise babies? That helps get a ring on it sometimes.

Yes but there was a gap of several years after kids were born and wedding.
Greeneyes78 · 19/09/2020 11:32

i got married at 24 and my ex husband was 31. First off, don’t get married, your too you, you really are.

My now boyfriend always said he didn’t wat to get married as to him it’s just a piece of paper and it is really but i explained my reasons and he asked me to marry him. Had he not asked I would have stayed in the relationship as he’s a great person and we haven’t great relationship.

TruffleMama · 19/09/2020 12:19

It depends on whether or not marriage is a deal breaker for you. It's like many other things.. children for example. If you really wanted children and your DP said he didn't.. would you wait around to see if he changed his mind? Or would you put yourself and your priorities first and walk away and find someone who wants the same things as you?

My DP and I have been together 2 years. We live together and are expecting our first DC next year. I would like to get married, but I would be ok if we didn't get married. It's not a deal breaker for me. A happy, loving relationship is what I think is important.

We have briefly spoken about marriage. DP seems cynical. He expressed that most married couples he knows have ended up miserable and divorced. I said you can't live your life based on the lives of others.

We visited friends recently to share news of the pregnancy. It was met with a few light-hearted comments about engagement being next. DP reacted by laughing, whilst saying "No, no" and shaking his head. He then changed the subject.
I enjoyed making him squirm by smirking 😏 and asking "Are you trying to change the subject?" 😂
There was then a short conversation between us all about marriage. Someone highlighted that some men don't want to get married, but they propose and get married as they feel they should because they know it's what their partner wants.

On the drive home, I asked DP not to ever propose to me if he would only be doing it because he knows it's something I want, and not something he wants.

He responded by saying that if he does propose, he would be doing it because he wants to, and he wouldn't do it if he didn't want to get married. I respect his honesty and I appreciate the fact that he wouldn't ask me to marry him just because he knew it was something I wanted, and not something he also wanted.

A few mins later in the car.. he then seemed to seek some reassurance. He asked "Now if I do propose.. will you be thinking I've only done it because you want to get married?" ...he seemed to be worrying that I would.
I reassured him that I wouldn't.

Cherrylipbalm · 19/09/2020 12:25

All friends in your position are still waiting 7+ years for marriage. It won't happen.
I find friends who are still holding out hope have resigned themselves to being walked over and keeping quiet.
What I find outstandingly weird is you've been together and all communication about a big life decision is simply being 'hinted at' Hmm
Surely you would communicate as adults with having an honest conversation?
Surely you have discussed this and know the answer before you waste your time moving in with him?
You haven't had the chat because you're scared of the answer.

My husband and I spoke about marriage on the second date ....not marrying each other but what our thoughts were. I knew I wanted to marry a partner and he also felt the same. If we'd been different and he'd not wanted to marry then we would've stopped dating then.

Graphista · 19/09/2020 12:27

I made the mistake of thinking marriage wasn't necessary. It is, especially for a woman who is the lower earner when she has DC. I found that out the hard way. so sorry that was the case for you. I think you’re very brave and honest to say so.

So often on these threads those of us that say that marriage especially prior to children is advisable we get absolutely flamed, accused of being old fashioned, internalised misogyny etc when we are simply wanting other women to have as much protection as possible.

I come from a perspective as I said if not only being a divorcee but also having seen a relative royally screwed by her “in laws” - who she’d previously got along with absolutely fine - in the immediate, medium and long term aftermath of her partner’s untimely death.

I understand why people focus on separation/divorce as the reason to consider the ramifications of living together/marriage and indeed that’s the most likely outcome of most relationships but I’ve also as a nurse witnessed the hell partners have gone through when a patient was incapacitated and decisions about their care needed to be made.

I’m sure someone will come along and say “next of kin” isn’t a legally defined title which is true, but where there is dispute between a partner and a patients eg parents hcps and particularly hospital lawyers will err towards caution covering their arse and go with the person with a clear legal connection to the patient. I’ve seen it happen. It’s especially the case if it’s a very much on/off relationship as eg the parents will give it “you 2 split up again a month ago” etc

@LilyWater excellent post! Tempted to copy and save for future threads of this type as we see that scenario SO often, men that want all the benefits and none of the commitment!

I would add to be very wary of the man who “offers” an “engagement” as a way to silence the woman and stop her “bothering” him about this. That’s what my sisters ex did, they were “engaged” for 8 years before finally splitting (his cheating) - an “engagement” is meaningless unless an actual wedding is planned.

I know one woman who’s been “engaged” for over 15 years! He has absolutely no intention of marrying her as far as I can tell and she’s also fast losing if not lost already her chance of motherhood, which I know she will regret.

Who is the driving force behind living together? excellent question

A happy, loving relationship is what I think is important. sorry but that’s idealistic and naive especially when you’re about to have a child. Are you taking mat leave? Going to return to work part time? Or are you independently wealthy? Because unless it’s the latter you’re putting yourself and your child in a very vulnerable position.

He expressed that most married couples he knows have ended up miserable and divorced. an ill founded excuse. Statistically unmarried couples are more likely to split.

Your “I reassured him that I wouldn’t” rather brought to mind that friends episode where the guy phoebe was dating managed to manipulate her into saying casual sex was fine by her and he didn’t even need to call her after!

He’s not committed to you or your child in any meaningful way. Flowery words and declarations of love won’t house, feed and clothe your child if you split, he becomes incapacitated or dies.

I hope I and others who think similarly are wrong because I genuinely wish you and your child well. But the reality is you’re (you and your child) now more vulnerable than ever, and he is doing nothing to mitigate that.

In my mind a genuinely loving and thoughtful life partner and father to be doesn’t do that.

Cherrylipbalm · 19/09/2020 12:27

Men weirldy seem to find it easier to commit to a baby than marriage

Cherrylipbalm · 19/09/2020 12:30

Graphista could agree more

AnneLovesGilbert · 19/09/2020 12:32

I find talk of proposals when a couple already have children between them really weird. Presumably you talked about ttc and having a baby, and you agreed where to live, you’d discuss any major changes to your jobs. So why on earth does one of you get to decide on marriage while the other waits around indefinitely hoping they’ve been deemed worthy of a proposal?

A proposal doesn’t change your relationship, being engaged isn’t a thing other than an intention to marry. The numbers of women on here who’ve been engaged for over a decade is something to behold. Once you’ve talked him into proposing or being engaged you’ve then got to get him to set a date and there are more obstacles to that usually than buying a ring and popping the question.

And once and for all, it is only a “piece of paper” in as much as any legally binding document is. It’s a serious contract between two people that’s a pain in the arse to break and breaking it involves consequences for both parties. That is the point.

And finally, if you’ve got kids and you’re not married you’re more likely to break up while they’re young than if you are married. It’s a fact. Loads of people seem to know every couple who got married to get divorced but fail to mention the ones who are only living together who also break up. The mothers of those children, they married ones, are far more likely to end up getting screwed over in a split. Also a fact.

Marriage is a serious business and means something. That’s why so many men don’t want to do it. Not because it means nothing but because they know exactly what it means.

VodselForDinner · 19/09/2020 12:35

OP, sadly I think when someone tells you “I don’t want to get married”, they mean “I don’t want to get married to you“. I’ve seen so many cases where friends have spent many years with a woman who doesn’t want to get married, only for the relationship to break up and he’s married to someone else very quickly. It’s like the second woman says “I’ve seen you mess your ex around so I’m not letting you do the same to me or piss or get off the pot”.

In my case, my now husband wasn’t overly keen on marriage when we were dating. He did want to move in together, though. I refused to until we were engaged with a date planned and enough booked to show he had proper intent.

If marriage is important to you, and it should be if you plan on sharing children, property, or finances, with this man, stick to your guns.

If he loves you enough, he’ll realise how important this is for you. After all, if it’s just a piece of paper to him, having it will change nothing.

Kit19 · 19/09/2020 12:51

One of my best friend has been with her DP nearly 30 years & they have 3 children. They’re not married but have put as many legal safeguards in place as they can to give each other the protection as if they were married - power of attorney, access to each other’s pension, wills, agreed plans for the children in event they should die, declaration of trust etc (tbh it seems easier & cheaper to just get married but that’s their choice)

Ask him if he’s not willing to get married, if he’s willing to put things in place that would give you protection in the event you split up?

AnneLovesGilbert · 19/09/2020 12:58

Took ages to post and crossed with much of what Graphista said.

FinallyHere · 19/09/2020 13:18

One benefit of marriage that cannot be replicated is that no tax is payable on transfers between you.

If you buy a house together, it is surprisingly easy for one person's estate to exceed the amount you can pass on free of inheritance tax

I and many of my peers got married after years of not wanting to, in order to avoid paying IHT to remain living in the jointly owned hone, when the first person died.

TruffleMama · 19/09/2020 13:31

@Graphista

"A happy, loving relationship is what I think is important"
sorry but that’s idealistic and naive especially when you’re about to have a child. Are you taking mat leave? Going to return to work part time? Or are you independently wealthy? Because unless it’s the latter you’re putting yourself and your child in a very vulnerable position

Yes I am taking maternity leave. 52 weeks, which DP fully supports and encourages. 18 weeks at full pay. Then 21 weeks SMP. Then unpaid leave until I return to work.
DP works shifts (4 days on, 4 days off). Since I fell pregnant he has hardly had his full set of 4 days off as he is taking up absolutely every overtime opportunity he can get his hands on to fund us during my SMP/unpaid leave period.

I will he returning to work full time.

Not sure what our marriage status has to do with any of the above?!

Graphista · 19/09/2020 13:32

Men weirldy seem to find it easier to commit to a baby than marriage

Disagree

Because they don't really commit to their children in this country because they're not held responsible for them in any meaningful way.

The cms (and csa before them) are fucking useless! Plus you cannot Force a father to have contact with their child legally - possibly that's better for the child but the point in terms of commitment stands.

Plus child maintenance can be reduced if the non resident parent/father lives in a 2nd or subsequent household that contains children - even if they aren't his! Maddeningly unfair because of course his older children don't NEED Less financial support just because he's off playing happy families with someone else's kids! That's IF they pay cm at all because as I said the cms are fucking useless!

In addition the benefits system discriminates against resident parents, who are usually mothers. The 2 child cap only applies to the household the child is ordinarily resident in.

A man/non resident parent can have 2 kids with partner 1, claim benefits for them while still living there, then leave and have ANOTHER 2 children with partner 2 and claim MORE benefits for BOTH those dc and so on and so forth...

So no they're not truly committing to children at all. - they're "committing" to having access to unprotected sex is often as far as their "commitment" truly goes!

Loads of people seem to know every couple who got married to get divorced but fail to mention the ones who are only living together who also break up yep they seem to forget them!

That’s why so many men don’t want to do it. Not because it means nothing but because they know exactly what it means. totally agree

My ex and I split because of his cheating which included knocking up the ow. During our divorce he delayed and delayed and delayed why? Because she was pushing (understandably in my opinion) to get married.

Where he came unstuck was he had lead her to believe it was ME delaying and eventually she got fed up and challenged me! At which point I put her in the CORRECT picture with supporting evidence of numerous letters between both solicitors including ones from his to mine where (in suitably formal/legal language) it basically said 'I have told him I am repeatedly telling him to get his arse in gear and he's faffing!'

Within 10 days the paperwork he'd been sitting on was dealt with and things moving forward! So I assume she put a rocket up his arse quite possibly support by both his and her parents!

There were still delays after that caused by him but it was no longer my problem!

They eventually married when their 1st child was around 8 years old and while a brave face was put on for my benefit I have it on good authority she was far from happy with all the delays and with the wedding (very small, quick, registry office job) they eventually had.

Meh, you reap what you sow!

But I'll bet her parents were really worried about her and their grandchildren the whole time ex was delaying and coming up with excuses!

@Kit19 The problem with that set up (and as you've noted probably quicker and cheaper to just marry anyway!) is that either can unilaterally and without telling the other remove those very "protections" - I've seen that happen too!

People discovering AFTER a partner leaves/dies that certain things were changed so as not to be in their favour - life assurance payouts, wills etc

Graphista · 19/09/2020 13:36

Yes I am taking maternity leave. 52 weeks, which DP fully supports and encourages

and if you split he doesn't have to continue that support leaving you and child screwed, lots of couples especially unmarried ones split in that tough 1st year of parenthood.

If he becomes incapacitated or dies in that time you could also find you're screwed then too.

18 weeks at full pay. Then 21 weeks SMP. Then unpaid leave until I return to work. meaning after the first 18 weeks you and your child ARE financially dependent on him with no real protections

Not sure what our marriage status has to do with any of the above?! it means you have zero legal standing if he reneges or is unable to support in any way THAT is the difference.

Graphista · 19/09/2020 13:39

Unmarried couples are as much as 4 times more likely to split than married ones.

1 in 5 of all couples split in the 1st year of parenthood

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