Help: at my wits end, struggling to decide whether to break up or keep persevering

[skuali66]

Hi everyone, been a lurker for a little while - have noticed people on here seem to give out good quality and supportive advice and felt like i need some rn.

For context: We are around 30 (myself just under, him just over), been together for 6 years - met half way through professional degrees at university. Both of us do shift work, full time. We have been engaged 3 years.

To begin with, this relationship was what dreams are made of, totally idyllic fairytale-like. We both knew pretty rapidly this was it. Went from 0 - 100 fairly quickly and were both ecstatic. (Not too quickly, we were friends for a number of months first, only hung out in group settings and when we were no longer working closely in a professional setting started this relationship).

DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with. We have similar values and goals in life. If it wasn't for covid - we would have been married a few months ago and family planning. I truly believe he has my best interest at heart.

However, he is a very poor communicator and extremely passive. In our 6+ years together we have had to live apart at times due to working in different cities - during this time he has been more than capable of adulting alone (cooking, cleaning etc). However, now that we are back to living together (not too recent, have been doing for 2 years again) everything is down to me - I also work in the same field, yet I come home and do the housework. If i ask him, he will begrudgingly do it. If I dont, he will happily live in a tip and live off mostly takeaways. However, he is an excellent cook but as the years are going by he cant be bothered to cook as much. I also know he thinks I nag him. My dilemma is: if I say nothing, nothing gets done. If I request him to do some of the chores -I am a nag. A typical conversation would go: Would you mind hoovering? 'Ill do it tomorrow' ... I was hoping to get the cleaning out of the way today so can do XYZ tomorrow. I would then proceed to doing it myself (he may sometimes help but then would be in a foul mood for the rest of the day).

I feel like I am his mother sometimes - I am the one that has to make decisions whether it is planning a holiday, deciding where/when/how to get married, buying a car etc. He is incredibly passive and generally "doesnt mind". This can be great sometimes - I wonder if in the early years I enjoyed that I could plan anything and he'd be happy (Lets go to italy this summer/ lets go hike up this mountain next weekend / lets go visit friendXYZ or go for dinner @XYZ). Which was fine for smaller decisions. Whereas now when it comes to marriage/ buying a house/ buying a car Im finding it all a bit much having to figure things out on my own.

He is also unable to talk about feelings / problems effectively. In the early days, if we had a fight he would get emotional. These days I feel like i am taken for granted, I believe he thinks neither of us would walk away.

Last year I went to my parents home for a week or so before a major professional exam. Prior to leaving we had a very minor disagreement (about something trivial like TV/food), I went home as this is where the exam center was and had no communication from DP for a whole week. Ignored my messages, missed my calls etc. On the morning of the exam he wished me good luck (& think he phoned too). This was the first time my family became aware of there being a problem. I was nervous/anxious anyway for the exam and also down because I did not know what was happening in our relationship (is he going to break up? have we already broken up? is he just toying with my emotions?) When i came back, instantly gave him a big hug to which he reciprocated and we talked about never treating the other person that way again.

When we have minor arguments, I might go spend the afternoon in a different room etc with minimal communication but have never given him the silent treatment in the same way - at most just a few hours of being in a mood, nothing a sleep wont sort out.

This bank holiday weekend, we both had separate plans to see friends/family. However a maintenance issue at our property meant one of us had to stay. This one of us was.. me. He initially agreed we would both stay till the engineer comes to sort it then part ways. However he woke up the following day and got ready to leave ASAP to my confusion. I brought up that I thought we were both going to stay at least initially, he then sulked so I suggested he just goes if hes going to be miserable by staying and not add anything to the situation. He went away. No communication was made. I cancelled my plans. He has now returned (yesterday). Still very minimal communication (he brought some homemade dinner from his mothers which he offered). Normally, I would initiate the "lets talk.." and discuss why I am upset etc apologise for whatever I may have done and move on.

However, it is ALWAYS me that does this. So I decided not to yesterday.. he did not initiate the conversation, played videogames virtually with his friends, we ended up sleeping in different rooms. Woken up today and he has gone to the gym. (he has work in a few hours and this week our shift patterns mean that we wont see eachother - im working roughly 9-5 and he starts at 4pm-2am). I desperately want to make up so we can spend a few hours together but also upset that he never initiates making up.

This cycle has gone on enough times and I feel our arguments impact me more than him (he is able to have an enjoyable time with friends.. I am studying for another exam and cannot concentrate) I think about our problems often and if this is the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with...
I always end up forgiving and convincing myself the good traits make up for it. But I cant help but wonder what life would be like with a man thats not so passive...

Any help/advice much appreciated. Especially regarding making him realise the impact he has on my emotional wellbeing and getting him to apologise or initiate making up.

So much handwringing whether he's selfish or not selfish, lazy or not lazy.

He. Doesn't. Make. You. Happy.

You're just fundamentally incompatible.

I hope you realise that in time. A relationship doesn't have to be terrible to leave. You can still love and care for each other. But this is your actual, only life. Don't spend it trying to change for a person, or expecting/hoping for them to change for you.

Reading your posts with interest as this is something I have experienced. I really relate to how his easy-going nature might have been appealing at first as you could make decisions about holidays and activities while he would just go along with it. In the long term it is exhausting though. And, in my case, bred resentment later on...resentment from him that I had been ‘controlling’ for years and resentment from me that he never made any arrangements for us. I would be the one booking things, arranging things, making phone calls all of which, over time, has become draining. We have had this conversation and he has said he lets me do it because I seem to enjoy it. I have told him I don’t. I do it because otherwise we wouldn’t do anything and that’s not the life I want.

The red flag for me is if your DP is able to make arrangements with other people...if he is able to book things and arrange things with them then I would find that insulting. If he is passive with everyone then that is just his nature and he will either need to demonstrate commitment to change or you have a lifetime ahead of a huge ‘mental load’.

I get the ‘not speaking to you’ issue...and have been there too also at times when I needed support, similar to you. I am never sure why it happens...is it because the attention isn’t on them and they actually have to consider someone else’s needs? Is it because they feel resentful that they have to support someone else or simply don’t know what to do to make it better? Is it basically self-centredness and a lack of empathy? Or is it controlling behaviour? In any case it is cruel. I had to go away once with this hanging over me and it was awful. I was the one trying to ‘make up’, trying to ‘make things better’ all the time. I realise now that while I was doing this, he could quite happily sit back and know that I was ‘there’. He didn’t have to do anything.

One thing is for sure, I would be cautious around people who compartmentalise to this extent. Anyone who cannot see that their current actions and behaviour have consequences is not going to make a good partner overall. While it may be their way of coping with something outside of their control, the impact on you is significant. And they are too busy compartmentalising to even see that. He needs to do more than behave in a supportive and encouraging way...that’s what friends do for each other. He actually needs to recognise and respond to your needs which means noticing when he is being a prick and overcoming that. If he isn’t showing that level of insight then you are too good for him.

I feel for you OP. I really do.

Your happiness is ONLY important to him when it doesn't affect him.

He IS selfish, he wouldn't change his plans/had you stay behind to see the tradesman

He ignores you so you don't behave in a certain way. What would happens next time one of you needed to stay home for a tradesman? You'd be thinking 'oh I better stay behind otherwise he won't talk to me for a week' it's a form of control

He's not lazy he goes to the gym - of course he's lazy! He won't pull his weight at home = lazy, will go to they gym rather than do the housework = selfish

Ignoring you is a form of control too

You say he would be great if you had sn kids. So what would happen if your child needed a hospital appointment and you both had plans? Who would have to give up those plans? Who would leave work to pick up dc early from school, who would get up in the middle of the night, change nappies, clean up, put toys away, cook tea? I doubt it would be him!

Sorry op but you're setting yourself up for a whole heap of shit.

If things are this difficult now and all you have to worry about is work then it's going to get a whole lot worse when you've kids or health issues etc

Exactly what latesummergarden said. Put so better than I could have expressed it, but precisely what I wish I'd known at your age.

Also -think about what are giving up, in order to keep the good parts of your current relationship.

Whilst no other relationship will automatically be perfect either, I now know that it is possible to have a mutually supportive, non sulking, constructive and fun relationship in which we communicate as adults - even when we disagree.

You should also not underestimate the life disruption involved in sleepwalking into marriage and children, only to wake up 15 or 20 years later and then leave.

Good luck OP. Only you can decide.

You are honing in on the minutae of each example to excuse his behaviour. Why don't you start a diary of how you feel every day. I don't mean a novel, just a general entry like - Mon - ignored for 3 hours, frustrated at dishes lying about. Tues - watched a film together, nice night. Wed - did the cleaning alone again, fed up with this. Do this for a few weeks and tot up how much time you actually enjoy vs being frustrated. Might help?

And I meant to say your post where you say you have seen him being incredibly kind to others...my DH is incredibly kind to others too. He cares a lot about what other people think of him. He cares less about what I think of him.

Do you feel that might apply to you too? Does he go the extra mile for you too?

It isn’t always easy being in a relationship with someone who will put others‘ needs first. Most definitely not if your needs and wants are taking a back seat.

if I read "persevere" in the title there is no point continuing. It shouldn't be that difficult

Don't do it. You may be willing to do it all now but you won't when kids arrive. You are the one who will be pregnant. You'll be working full time with a baby who is up in the night and living in a tip with a man who avoids it all. Run now. Seriously. And next time before you move in with someone have the conversation about how you split bills/chores etc. Sod the fairytale. It ain't real. Who does the dishes and when is the foundation of it all. This guys would end up a Disney dad in a heartbeat. Seriously try again.

If you think it’s difficult and disheartening now, it’ll be magnified to a terrible extent if you have children.

He sounds like a people pleaser, someone who wants to give a good impression and/or doesn't like conflict.

This means that when he first gets to know people, he's eager to go along with what they want, as he loves the reward of being instantly likeable/popular. He loves earning brownie points by doing stuff for others.

The drawbacks:

• Over time, he can't keep all this up, as it is knackering. He might start coming up with weird excuses/lies.
• Over time, you will get to know him better and be less enthusiastic. He'll be pissed off that everyone else thinks he's great, but you don't.
• His inability to deal with conflict means that he can't say what he thinks, so he sulks.
• His inability to deal with conflict means that when you try to discuss anything, he sees you as aggressive.

There’s an absolute ton of excellent advice here. I almost think it should be pinned to the top.

I’m also one who had a fairytale beginning then xh turned out to be incompatible with grown up family life. Don’t become me.

Please OP and any similar lurkers, listen to our hard won advice.

There’s something in the easy-going bloke at first. It’s appealing, until you feel like their bloody mum.

Precisely

Hi OP,

I have actually registered to reply to you after lurking on MN for years. I had to register to warn you of the consequences of staying in a relationship like this. It has taken me 20 years, 2 kids and pure unadulterated exhaustion to realise that myself and my ex DH were fundamentally incompatible.

Look up the three attachment styles. He is an avoidant, you are an anxious. You will be miserable, constantly giving, pushing for any sort of response from him, giving in to his avoidance, pleading for attention, terrified of hurting him, constantly questioning yourself, carrying all the mental load and feeling completely unloved every single minute of every single day for the rest of your life. He will retreat forever more. You will grow bitter, resentful and very depressed.

He will never validate you as a person. He will never meet your needs in love. You are making excuses for him, I did that for years and years. It eventually erodes the great person you are until you become a shell of your former self.

I get on fine now with my ex DH because I don't want or need anything from him except to be a good father, which he is. You have a chance to get out before it's too late. Please do it and listen to all the other wise women here who have lived this life for years. Don't accept the measly crumbs he will throw your way to keep you quiet. He will destroy your soul and I am not exaggerating when I say this. I am 2.5 years down the line from separating and I am only starting to feel like my old self.

I wish you much luck OP because you have the choice to set yourself free or plough headlong into a marriage that will not ever give you what you need or deserve as a person and as a woman.

All the examples you give of him putting others first are either a) where he'll get a warm fuzzy glow of appreciation from those people and bask in his "what a lovely chap" reputation b) he can volunteer to do those things because they are entirely on his own terms. Anything that needs doing such as housework, household admin etc he's not interested in because those tasks bring him zero reward.

My ex was/is like this. It won't get any better.

What a heartfelt post @FMSucks

The thing is OP, even if by talking about it once again you managed to move him a little bit to change, do some more chores without grumbling etc, it will not change the dynamics of your relationship. You are chasing him, and it is never the other way around. He acts like he has nothing to lose. You act like you cannot afford to lose him. He has boundaries, you do not. It is not a healthy relationship. Like other posters, I say this because I have also had relationships like that, and it sucked the life force out of me. I married a man who can communicate his opinions and talk about his feelings, who respects me and is willing to change. I feel supported and loved, and able to get on with life, rather than putting all my energy into my relationship because it's not a two way effort. You deserve a relationship like that too OP, it shouldn't be like this.

Don't make plans to marry or buy a house in the next few months, study and get your exams over with. See if he notices that the plans you had, have not been actioned.
Then, after exams tell him you have been thinking about leaving and you don't think the relationship is for you. See what his response is then, it's possible he could be shocked into action, or you might also find he just agrees. Then you have your answer regarding the next step.
How was the family dynamic for him growing up? Did his mother do everything? But did she do it and work too? Some men seem to think it's a woman's job to look after them without considering if they work, they have learnt this growing up so it's deeply ingrained.

FMSucks has described my life too, 17 years of it, and several more to recover.

It’s the avoidant/codependent dance and it’ll drain the life from you.

Find your anger and your boundaries. Really believe you’re worth cherishing

"Don't make plans to marry or buy a house in the next few months, study and get your exams over with. See if he notices that the plans you had, have not been actioned.
Then, after exams tell him you have been thinking about leaving and you don't think the relationship is for you. See what his response is then, it's possible he could be shocked into action, or you might also find he just agrees. Then you have your answer regarding the next step."

^This.

I think the advice to look up attachment styles is really helpful.
All the combined wisdom of Mumsnet isn't going to make your decision, but self education can always expand your own true understanding. Informed is the best way to make any big decision

FMSucks describes my 25 year marriage which has just ended. Exactly. It almost totally destroyed me. I started to realise a while back when random strangers were kinder to me than he was.

Please don"t marry or get pregnant with this man.

to all the women on here who have been through these relationships. It's good to know I am not alone, although I would never wish this type of relationship on anyone.

OP I highly recommend reading "Attached" by Levine and Heller and also "Women Who Love Too Much" by Norwood. I spent my time reading these with my jaw to the floor nodding in agreement.

Also, these youtube clips may help you to understand the dynamics of your relationship a bit more:

You are so young. It sounds like this relationship has run its course. He isn't particularly kind to you. He doesn't pull his weight in the relationship.

I couldn't be arsed with this. There is nothing less appealing than being your bloke's mother. Soon enough you might have a real child to do everything for as well as him. You need a grown up partner and you are still young