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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help: at my wits end, struggling to decide whether to break up or keep persevering

203 replies

skuali66 · 31/08/2020 10:55

Hi everyone, been a lurker for a little while - have noticed people on here seem to give out good quality and supportive advice and felt like i need some rn.

For context: We are around 30 (myself just under, him just over), been together for 6 years - met half way through professional degrees at university. Both of us do shift work, full time. We have been engaged 3 years.

To begin with, this relationship was what dreams are made of, totally idyllic fairytale-like. We both knew pretty rapidly this was it. Went from 0 - 100 fairly quickly and were both ecstatic. (Not too quickly, we were friends for a number of months first, only hung out in group settings and when we were no longer working closely in a professional setting started this relationship).

DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with. We have similar values and goals in life. If it wasn't for covid - we would have been married a few months ago and family planning. I truly believe he has my best interest at heart.

However, he is a very poor communicator and extremely passive. In our 6+ years together we have had to live apart at times due to working in different cities - during this time he has been more than capable of adulting alone (cooking, cleaning etc). However, now that we are back to living together (not too recent, have been doing for 2 years again) everything is down to me - I also work in the same field, yet I come home and do the housework. If i ask him, he will begrudgingly do it. If I dont, he will happily live in a tip and live off mostly takeaways. However, he is an excellent cook but as the years are going by he cant be bothered to cook as much. I also know he thinks I nag him. My dilemma is: if I say nothing, nothing gets done. If I request him to do some of the chores -I am a nag. A typical conversation would go: Would you mind hoovering? 'Ill do it tomorrow' ... I was hoping to get the cleaning out of the way today so can do XYZ tomorrow. I would then proceed to doing it myself (he may sometimes help but then would be in a foul mood for the rest of the day).

I feel like I am his mother sometimes - I am the one that has to make decisions whether it is planning a holiday, deciding where/when/how to get married, buying a car etc. He is incredibly passive and generally "doesnt mind". This can be great sometimes - I wonder if in the early years I enjoyed that I could plan anything and he'd be happy (Lets go to italy this summer/ lets go hike up this mountain next weekend / lets go visit friendXYZ or go for dinner @XYZ). Which was fine for smaller decisions. Whereas now when it comes to marriage/ buying a house/ buying a car Im finding it all a bit much having to figure things out on my own.

He is also unable to talk about feelings / problems effectively. In the early days, if we had a fight he would get emotional. These days I feel like i am taken for granted, I believe he thinks neither of us would walk away.

Last year I went to my parents home for a week or so before a major professional exam. Prior to leaving we had a very minor disagreement (about something trivial like TV/food), I went home as this is where the exam center was and had no communication from DP for a whole week. Ignored my messages, missed my calls etc. On the morning of the exam he wished me good luck (& think he phoned too). This was the first time my family became aware of there being a problem. I was nervous/anxious anyway for the exam and also down because I did not know what was happening in our relationship (is he going to break up? have we already broken up? is he just toying with my emotions?) When i came back, instantly gave him a big hug to which he reciprocated and we talked about never treating the other person that way again.

When we have minor arguments, I might go spend the afternoon in a different room etc with minimal communication but have never given him the silent treatment in the same way - at most just a few hours of being in a mood, nothing a sleep wont sort out.

This bank holiday weekend, we both had separate plans to see friends/family. However a maintenance issue at our property meant one of us had to stay. This one of us was.. me. He initially agreed we would both stay till the engineer comes to sort it then part ways. However he woke up the following day and got ready to leave ASAP to my confusion. I brought up that I thought we were both going to stay at least initially, he then sulked so I suggested he just goes if hes going to be miserable by staying and not add anything to the situation. He went away. No communication was made. I cancelled my plans. He has now returned (yesterday). Still very minimal communication (he brought some homemade dinner from his mothers which he offered). Normally, I would initiate the "lets talk.." and discuss why I am upset etc apologise for whatever I may have done and move on.

However, it is ALWAYS me that does this. So I decided not to yesterday.. he did not initiate the conversation, played videogames virtually with his friends, we ended up sleeping in different rooms. Woken up today and he has gone to the gym. (he has work in a few hours and this week our shift patterns mean that we wont see eachother - im working roughly 9-5 and he starts at 4pm-2am). I desperately want to make up so we can spend a few hours together but also upset that he never initiates making up.

This cycle has gone on enough times and I feel our arguments impact me more than him (he is able to have an enjoyable time with friends.. I am studying for another exam and cannot concentrate) I think about our problems often and if this is the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with...
I always end up forgiving and convincing myself the good traits make up for it. But I cant help but wonder what life would be like with a man thats not so passive...

Any help/advice much appreciated. Especially regarding making him realise the impact he has on my emotional wellbeing and getting him to apologise or initiate making up.

OP posts:
user14562156358 · 31/08/2020 12:47

For goodness sake, it shouldn't be this hard. It's very obvious you posted to get people to validate the decision you'd already made to throw your life away on this shit relationship - your replies are endless excuses and trying to reshape things to get people to tell you what you want.

"One last try for my own peace of mind" - that's just you trying to push away the difficult emotions involved in doing what needs to be done. It won't bring you peace, quite the opposite. All it will do is wear you down more and waste more of your life. You actually think you'll feel fine when you do still have to end it because you threw even more good money after bad and chucked more of your precious life in the dustbin?

I am just not sure how to go about resolving this.

Leave. Get therapy to address why you stayed in this situation and why you don't think you deserve better.

You can't change other people, only yourself. Healthy relationships are not about one person doing hard labour or endlessly working themselves into the ground trying to "save" things or change the other person or contort themselves into someone unaffected by the other person's shit behaviour.

He doesn't need to be some evil monster and you don't need to be a saint for this situation to be shit and unacceptable. You deserve better.

The longer you cling onto this wreckage through fear and a desire to avoid grieving what has already been lost (and even that's mostly just the loss of your hopes for the relationship rather than anything you actually had, the more exhausted and drained you will be by the time you do try to take charge of your life again.

MitziK · 31/08/2020 12:47

Can you really be arsed with managing him for the rest of your life?

It all sounds like so much hard work.

SadiePurple · 31/08/2020 12:47

You are making excuses for him.

He will never change.
Can you honestly see the next forty or fifty years with him, nothing ever changing, and you getting more and more ground down with it?
Don't you think you're worth more than that?

timeisnotaline · 31/08/2020 12:48

I think happy doing loads of sports but can’t be arsed cooking or doing housework is exactly the traditional sense of a lazy man.

I think you are confusing passive with downright lazy, selfish and inconsiderate. this is it in a nutshell. What part of your post is wants to please you? Not enough to cook dinner. Obviously he eats, you said he does it for himself when away. I’d long since have stopped cooking for him. He doesn’t want to please you enough to organise a holiday - I bet he enjoys going on them. Mine was a bit like this by the way- we were planning a dream holiday of 6 weeks travelling in Europe (from Australia) and he was not helping at all. I lost it and his defence was that he doesn’t care what we do, I do so I should organise. I said thanks that’s great to know. I actually don’t care enough and don’t want to organise the whole big trip for us both so I guess it’s two weeks in a local beach town instead, luckily we haven’t booked much yet. Shock horror, actually he did care!!! A few years later he was doing more for holidays but not enough so I waited till our next two trips were for a friedns wedding and with his parents, and said he organised them or we weren’t going. I’d cancel them the night before our flight out if I had to- I wasn’t going on a badly organised holiday and I wasn’t organising them. Turns out he did give a shit about the details (& he’s great at organising holidays now). You can try and do this but they have to genuinely love you and be well meaning (but selfish and lazy) as it’s a long slog. It’s not love if he only helps you when it’s convenient- would he have offered to drive you on that errand if there were something fun he could be doing? It’s easy to be nice in your spare time, when you have children and busy jobs spare time is hard to find.

JamieLeeCurtains · 31/08/2020 12:52

My happiness is incredibly important to him

No. He tried to sabotage you before your previous exam by messing with your head, and he's doing it now that you are supposed to be studying for another professional exam.

BuffaloMozzerella · 31/08/2020 12:53

Also, even posting on here for advice on how to deal with it is an example of your over-functioning in the relationship. Is he agonising about it online! No!

Not to discourage you AT ALL from posting, however people are reading what you are saying and responding because, I expect, many of us having been there and tried to change a man or fix a relationship which just can't be fixed and learned the hard way.

PicsInRed · 31/08/2020 12:54

He sounds utterly shite.

Thank goodness there are no kids binding you to this. Thank. Goodness.

Whatisthisfuckery · 31/08/2020 12:55

I think what you need to consider OP, is that to make a relationship work it takes both people to make the effort. You have clearly made an effort to resolve things but it can’t work if only one of you tries. Do you think he makes an effort? If the answer is no, bearing in mind that he has had years to do so, then you know your answer.

PicsInRed · 31/08/2020 12:55

This man will grind you to dust.

kidsdrivingmemad · 31/08/2020 12:56

Do you dread going home sometimes OP?

FinallyHere · 31/08/2020 13:08

I don't actually "need" someone in my life

So why.on.earth are you prepared to pay such a high price for his company ? Almost all the housework, all the emotional work to keep the 'relationship'. He shuts down any conversation about it because this way suits him fine.

And now that people have pointed out how low you have set the bar for a relationship, you think you have misrepresented his many good qualities and rush to defend him.

I'm sorry, this is no way to live your life.

If you can't see it for yourself, think about how you would feel if a friend, a sister or a daughter asked you what you are asking here. How would you advise her?

bunters · 31/08/2020 13:08

I couldn't even finish this. I felt like it was me writing this about my last relationship! Honestly, ditch him - you will never, ever regret it. It will feel impossible and heartbreaking at first, then after a couple of months of not cleaning up after an uncommunicative man child who accuses you of being a nag for expecting him to clean up his own mess, you'll wonder why the hell you ever put up with it. I'm still in awe of some of the crap I used to put up with (for 15+ years), while kidding myself that the relationship was what I wanted and that he really loved me

fizzandchips · 31/08/2020 13:08

he will never prevent me from doing things I like - will always encourage my social plans

But he did. You had to cancel your plans waiting for the engineer. He went back on what he said he’d do and in the end you ‘told him’ to just go. So in his mind...and now yours; it was your decision, but it wasn’t was it? He did what he wanted, got his own way and didn’t have to think of himself as the bad guy and now you even believe it was your decision that he went. I imagine things like this happen more often than you are willing to admit at the moment. It’s ok that your family and friends think he’s wonderful, and even you can say he’s wonderful, but you’ve admitted, maybe for the first time that he doesn’t make you FEEL wonderful.
Marriage will not fix this. You are a bright, intelligent, articulate, independent woman and as someone who would have described herself like that before my marriage, please at least consider that he might not be as good for you as you think he is. I‘m a shell of the person I used to be and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. It’s ok to be noticing now, that things aren’t great.

ALLIS0N · 31/08/2020 13:13

@user14562156358

For goodness sake, it shouldn't be this hard. It's very obvious you posted to get people to validate the decision you'd already made to throw your life away on this shit relationship - your replies are endless excuses and trying to reshape things to get people to tell you what you want.

"One last try for my own peace of mind" - that's just you trying to push away the difficult emotions involved in doing what needs to be done. It won't bring you peace, quite the opposite. All it will do is wear you down more and waste more of your life. You actually think you'll feel fine when you do still have to end it because you threw even more good money after bad and chucked more of your precious life in the dustbin?

I am just not sure how to go about resolving this.

Leave. Get therapy to address why you stayed in this situation and why you don't think you deserve better.

You can't change other people, only yourself. Healthy relationships are not about one person doing hard labour or endlessly working themselves into the ground trying to "save" things or change the other person or contort themselves into someone unaffected by the other person's shit behaviour.

He doesn't need to be some evil monster and you don't need to be a saint for this situation to be shit and unacceptable. You deserve better.

The longer you cling onto this wreckage through fear and a desire to avoid grieving what has already been lost (and even that's mostly just the loss of your hopes for the relationship rather than anything you actually had, the more exhausted and drained you will be by the time you do try to take charge of your life again.

Excellent post
differentnameforthis · 31/08/2020 13:14

You had to cancel your plans waiting for the engineer. He went back on what he said he’d do and in the end you ‘told him’ to just go. So in his mind...and now yours; it was your decision, but it wasn’t was it? He did what he wanted, got his own way and didn’t have to think of himself as the bad guy and now you even believe it was your decision that he went. I imagine things like this happen more often than you are willing to admit at the moment

Yup... very covert and contrived to look like op gave him "permission" to go. He's very manipulative.

ThinkWittyThoughts · 31/08/2020 13:19

He is making a choice to treat you like this.

You are making a choice to stay. You're CHOOSING this life. You're choosing to do all the housework, all the cooking, all the apologising, all the organising, all the feeling.

Double up your contraception. Start making plans to get your life back. Do not marry this man. Do not look back.

Dery · 31/08/2020 13:23

Dear OP - the bottom line is that you have a narrative in your head about your partner which does not match the reality:

You have said:
"DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with." "I truly believe he has my best interest at heart." "My happiness is incredibly important to him."

What you have described is a man who:
i. shuts you down emotionally, refuses to discuss difficulties and simply sulks so that eventually you break down and apologise to him;
ii. changes plans without warning;
iii. does sod all round the house and sulks and makes you feel like a nag if he is persuaded to do anything;
iv. quarrels with you before a major exam and ignores your attempts to make up (still can't believe you forgave him for that - that was your future he was dicing with; you came back, gave him a big hug and talked about never treating the other person that way again - but you hadn't treated him badly whereas he had happily left you torturing yourself about your relationship);
v. makes time for himself and to do the things he wants to do (i.e. gym etc); and
vi. tosses you the odd crumb (lets you have the last sausage roll or whatever; drives you somewhere because it's raining) which you mistake for making him wonderful etc and all the things you described above.

You are waking up to the fact that this is very far from being enough for you (hence the "break up" or "keep persevering") but still wanting to maintain your, forgive me, deluded narrative about what kind of partner he is. He's trained you to be grateful for scraps and to think they amount to some kind of feast. I suspect that most of us posters are older than you and are either several years into relationships with properly supportive partners and/or have escaped relationships with inadequate partners, and many of us have had children or are otherwise closely involved with children and know just how much work is involved with raising a family, especially in the early years. That is why we are all strongly advising you to get rid of this man. He is a dead-weight. He is not what you think he is and a future with him would be miserable for you.

skuali66 · 31/08/2020 13:24

:( :(

Thanks everyone

OP posts:
Palavah · 31/08/2020 13:31

@Aerial2020

Your happiness is important to him? Which example in your post is that?
I was going to say exactly this.

Study for your exam. Do what you need to do for you.

skuali66 · 31/08/2020 13:35

@Dery

Dear OP - the bottom line is that you have a narrative in your head about your partner which does not match the reality:

You have said:
"DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with." "I truly believe he has my best interest at heart." "My happiness is incredibly important to him."

What you have described is a man who:
i. shuts you down emotionally, refuses to discuss difficulties and simply sulks so that eventually you break down and apologise to him;
ii. changes plans without warning;
iii. does sod all round the house and sulks and makes you feel like a nag if he is persuaded to do anything;
iv. quarrels with you before a major exam and ignores your attempts to make up (still can't believe you forgave him for that - that was your future he was dicing with; you came back, gave him a big hug and talked about never treating the other person that way again - but you hadn't treated him badly whereas he had happily left you torturing yourself about your relationship);
v. makes time for himself and to do the things he wants to do (i.e. gym etc); and
vi. tosses you the odd crumb (lets you have the last sausage roll or whatever; drives you somewhere because it's raining) which you mistake for making him wonderful etc and all the things you described above.

You are waking up to the fact that this is very far from being enough for you (hence the "break up" or "keep persevering") but still wanting to maintain your, forgive me, deluded narrative about what kind of partner he is. He's trained you to be grateful for scraps and to think they amount to some kind of feast. I suspect that most of us posters are older than you and are either several years into relationships with properly supportive partners and/or have escaped relationships with inadequate partners, and many of us have had children or are otherwise closely involved with children and know just how much work is involved with raising a family, especially in the early years. That is why we are all strongly advising you to get rid of this man. He is a dead-weight. He is not what you think he is and a future with him would be miserable for you.

Thank you. I am a bit of a mess after reading yours and everyone else's responses. DP is taking a shower before having to go to work... not a clue how im feeling OR thinks he feels worse and not ready to speak to me.

There have been times in my life when friends/colleagues/people i know made crazy decisions with their personal lifes/relationships, sometimes these friends would ask for advice then proceed to not take it and make what to everyone else on the outside was an obvious mistake.

I am starting to feel like i am now that person. With this being 6 years in and being engaged, its not the same as talking to your friends about a new guy you've started dating. I also dont want to worry my parents with my problems. This leaves everyone else only hearing of the positives. Ofcourse, I want things to work out hence I probably also focus on the positives and blank out the negatives from my memory. The incident re: silent treatment around the time of a previous exam is probably a prime example of this.

I suppose I have a lot of thinking to do and not really sure what my next move should be. As much as it may be obvious for all of you to say I should leave... I cant. Not yet, not without trying (tell me I am dumb and this is a wasted effort... maybe it is, but for me its worth trying). :( :(

OP posts:
skuali66 · 31/08/2020 13:40

I wish I could, but unfortunately when I'm upset I cant seem to concentrate on the complexities of what I need to study. My mind just goes to this situation. (With him however, hes always been able to compartmentalise)

OP posts:
skuali66 · 31/08/2020 13:41

@Reubenshat

I really recommend reading the book ‘too bad to stay too good to leave’. You can download it.

It helped me filter through my relationship and I literally ended up doing a ten year inventory of my marriage.

The book sets out clear situations that effect relationships and helps you figure out if you’d be happier leaving or happier staying and working on it. The author has decades of relationship councilling experience.

I left. Married ten years with two kids. It wasn’t a bad relationship but there was always a low level of discontent and unhappiness. I’m happier now as I’m not having to deal with those things day in day out.

My ex wouldn’t do his fair share of house work and didn’t really meet my needs emotionally.

We get on much better now co parenting.

Read the book it will high light a lot of things you probably don’t realise is going on

Thank you for the book recommendation, I wonder if there is a way to download it for free.. otherwise looks like I might have to get it off amazon
OP posts:
Newusernamex10000 · 31/08/2020 13:42

Have you considered just stopping doing everything (housework, decisions) and seeing what happens?

Your post rings fairly true to me and my relationship. I wouldn’t say it’s perfect, but I also think my partner’s good points are much more than his bad.

I also think you and I are quite similar, type a people. I am very guilty of wanting control, being a neat freak, wanting to plan everything ten years in advance. My partner is much more laid back - which means he leaves things to me but is also why we go together so well. I don’t think I could stand being in a relationship with someone as anal as me. Do you think that you’re too ready to start doing things to your standards rather than letting your partner work things out for himself?

I’ll be criticised for this but beware of Mumsnet relationship forums - the feedback is always overwhelmingly negative. To be fair mostly because people’s ops are generally written in a fairly negative way, or they wouldn’t write them in the first place

Aerial2020 · 31/08/2020 13:44

@skuali66

I wish I could, but unfortunately when I'm upset I cant seem to concentrate on the complexities of what I need to study. My mind just goes to this situation. (With him however, hes always been able to compartmentalise)
OP I get this too. It's not a nice place. That's why I think try not to let him take away what you really need to put energy into. Go for a walk. Listen to some music. Focus on only you.
Hidingtonothing · 31/08/2020 13:46

Here you go OP www.docdroid.net/tq5cfMC/too-good-to-leave-or-too-bad-to-stay-pdf