Help: at my wits end, struggling to decide whether to break up or keep persevering

[skuali66]

Hi everyone, been a lurker for a little while - have noticed people on here seem to give out good quality and supportive advice and felt like i need some rn.

For context: We are around 30 (myself just under, him just over), been together for 6 years - met half way through professional degrees at university. Both of us do shift work, full time. We have been engaged 3 years.

To begin with, this relationship was what dreams are made of, totally idyllic fairytale-like. We both knew pretty rapidly this was it. Went from 0 - 100 fairly quickly and were both ecstatic. (Not too quickly, we were friends for a number of months first, only hung out in group settings and when we were no longer working closely in a professional setting started this relationship).

DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with. We have similar values and goals in life. If it wasn't for covid - we would have been married a few months ago and family planning. I truly believe he has my best interest at heart.

However, he is a very poor communicator and extremely passive. In our 6+ years together we have had to live apart at times due to working in different cities - during this time he has been more than capable of adulting alone (cooking, cleaning etc). However, now that we are back to living together (not too recent, have been doing for 2 years again) everything is down to me - I also work in the same field, yet I come home and do the housework. If i ask him, he will begrudgingly do it. If I dont, he will happily live in a tip and live off mostly takeaways. However, he is an excellent cook but as the years are going by he cant be bothered to cook as much. I also know he thinks I nag him. My dilemma is: if I say nothing, nothing gets done. If I request him to do some of the chores -I am a nag. A typical conversation would go: Would you mind hoovering? 'Ill do it tomorrow' ... I was hoping to get the cleaning out of the way today so can do XYZ tomorrow. I would then proceed to doing it myself (he may sometimes help but then would be in a foul mood for the rest of the day).

I feel like I am his mother sometimes - I am the one that has to make decisions whether it is planning a holiday, deciding where/when/how to get married, buying a car etc. He is incredibly passive and generally "doesnt mind". This can be great sometimes - I wonder if in the early years I enjoyed that I could plan anything and he'd be happy (Lets go to italy this summer/ lets go hike up this mountain next weekend / lets go visit friendXYZ or go for dinner @XYZ). Which was fine for smaller decisions. Whereas now when it comes to marriage/ buying a house/ buying a car Im finding it all a bit much having to figure things out on my own.

He is also unable to talk about feelings / problems effectively. In the early days, if we had a fight he would get emotional. These days I feel like i am taken for granted, I believe he thinks neither of us would walk away.

Last year I went to my parents home for a week or so before a major professional exam. Prior to leaving we had a very minor disagreement (about something trivial like TV/food), I went home as this is where the exam center was and had no communication from DP for a whole week. Ignored my messages, missed my calls etc. On the morning of the exam he wished me good luck (& think he phoned too). This was the first time my family became aware of there being a problem. I was nervous/anxious anyway for the exam and also down because I did not know what was happening in our relationship (is he going to break up? have we already broken up? is he just toying with my emotions?) When i came back, instantly gave him a big hug to which he reciprocated and we talked about never treating the other person that way again.

When we have minor arguments, I might go spend the afternoon in a different room etc with minimal communication but have never given him the silent treatment in the same way - at most just a few hours of being in a mood, nothing a sleep wont sort out.

This bank holiday weekend, we both had separate plans to see friends/family. However a maintenance issue at our property meant one of us had to stay. This one of us was.. me. He initially agreed we would both stay till the engineer comes to sort it then part ways. However he woke up the following day and got ready to leave ASAP to my confusion. I brought up that I thought we were both going to stay at least initially, he then sulked so I suggested he just goes if hes going to be miserable by staying and not add anything to the situation. He went away. No communication was made. I cancelled my plans. He has now returned (yesterday). Still very minimal communication (he brought some homemade dinner from his mothers which he offered). Normally, I would initiate the "lets talk.." and discuss why I am upset etc apologise for whatever I may have done and move on.

However, it is ALWAYS me that does this. So I decided not to yesterday.. he did not initiate the conversation, played videogames virtually with his friends, we ended up sleeping in different rooms. Woken up today and he has gone to the gym. (he has work in a few hours and this week our shift patterns mean that we wont see eachother - im working roughly 9-5 and he starts at 4pm-2am). I desperately want to make up so we can spend a few hours together but also upset that he never initiates making up.

This cycle has gone on enough times and I feel our arguments impact me more than him (he is able to have an enjoyable time with friends.. I am studying for another exam and cannot concentrate) I think about our problems often and if this is the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with...
I always end up forgiving and convincing myself the good traits make up for it. But I cant help but wonder what life would be like with a man thats not so passive...

Any help/advice much appreciated. Especially regarding making him realise the impact he has on my emotional wellbeing and getting him to apologise or initiate making up.

He always put people he cares about before him?
Except you it would seem.
Where is your anger Op with the the way he is treating you?
Why do you have this need to put yourself 2nd?

There's no denying there obviously are issues.. and whether they resolve or not will likely dictate which way this goes.
The incident re:silent treatment prior to an exam is one that probably upset me the most/ makes me angry the most when I look back and I absolutely agree that it is 100% cruel. It did feel however like he was digging a hole, one that he didnt know how to get out of. I dont mean to make excuses - he could have just broken that silence. It does seem to be an isolated incident (at least so far). This most recent encounter (cant even call it an argument.. as there was no arguing) resulted in minimal communication and "giving space". I also chose not to approach him as I mentioned previously I feel like its always me having to do the making up (however when essentials needed to be communicated, I was met with responses) I think he was perhaps trying to match my tone. It wasn't silent treatment per se, but rather withdrawing and waiting on me. He has expressed in the past that often if he speaks up, it does not achieve the desired outcome and instead might add further fuel to the fire. I can see that point but cant help but feel just say something thats not triggering?!

What do you want people to say?
It's been 7 pages and most posters can see he is not for you. Prob because they have been there and got the t shirt.
Yet every update is the same excusing him and looking to how it could be your fault

I don't think anyone is going to say much different
If you're not ready to break up, that's up to you. We are not living your life, and you need to make your own decision.
But constant analysing this over and over is not going to change how he is towards you.
Find the anger. Process it.

@Aerial2020

He always put people he cares about before him? Except you it would seem. Where is your anger Op with the the way he is treating you? Why do you have this need to put yourself 2nd?

This isnt strictly true. There are occasions where he has scrapped all plans last minute to be with me.. often not explaining fully to the company he was meant to be with (again poor communication) but prioritising me. I don't recall the details but this has happened a few times, not for a while now (in the earlier years) as I have learnt I would rather not have his company if it means he'd rather be elsewhere. I guess its a head vs heart thing, eg. would prefer to be watching the football down the pub with friends than stay in (I dont remember why I might have expressed preference of staying in.. probably had good reason).

May I suggest you speak to a therapist?
I think getting it all out will help you process this

@aerial2020
What do you want people to say?

I dont want people to say anything in particular. As I have said, I appreciate the opinions and advice. I really do - I know I am wrapped up in this and sometimes an outside perspective is helpful. That doesn't necessarily mean I will disregard all of my own thoughts/feelings/opinions but certainly am absorbing what everyone has said.

I am also aware that people on here have only received a glimpse into my relationship and have (rightfully so) based their opinions on that. Obviously, I have a much deeper understanding of my own life albeit whilst being emotionally involved.

Not a bad shout at all. I think it would probably be beneficial to somebody like myself, but I am not sure if someone like him would suit it... I imagine you probably have to be able to and amenable to talking in general (let alone talking about difficult things such as feelings)

Ok, that was meant would like.
Op you started off saying you are at your wits end. Yet here you, still are not quite at your wits end because you seem to be convincing yourself it's not that bad.
You can do better than this. Even being on your own is better than this.

Yes I meant therapy for you.

I don't recall the details but this has happened a few times, not for a while now (in the earlier years) as I have learnt I would rather not have his company if it means he'd rather be elsewhere. I guess its a head vs heart thing, eg. would prefer to be watching the football down the pub with friends than stay in (I dont remember why I might have expressed preference of staying in.. probably had good reason).
Do you mean that when he does prioritise you he huffs and makes you a bit miserable about being prioritised because he could have been doing something better Or there are work consequences? That’s not caring for and prioritising you, that’s training you to put up and shut up and you say it hasnt happened in years so I guess the training worked.

Haven't read the whole thread.

There are some really worrying aspects to your partners behaviour- sulking/ silent treatment, and absenting himself from relationship maintenance.

Those are incredibly childish behaviours.
The sulking and silent treatment are especially worrying. They are designed to manipulate, and are at heart selfish and cruel.

I think if you are unhappy now (quite understandably) you will feel much much worse in 5-10 years time if you marry this man and have children. I can’t see he is going to change his ways. He does sound lazy and doesn’t seem to care how you feel. His communication skills are pitiful and you are left to make all the effort to try and resolve any problems.
I would say don’t waste any more of your life on this man child.
There are always dozens of threads in the relationships section with women listing lot’s of the same things you have. Have a read and see the similarities. What would you advise a friend in your situation?
Life is short, don’t waste it.

He isn't learning to deal with the tricky situations when he sulks/goes silent. Why hasn't he addressed this behaviour himself or learnt from the past?
This appears to be a repeated pattern which is getting worse/longer each time. If he wanted to stop inflicting this on you he would have researched it/had therapy/asked for forgiveness/discussed it. But each time it occurs you are the one that has to break the silence/silk by apologizing or whatever, so he is left to repeat it again and again as he never has to deal with it in a different way. it punishes you more than him as you hate it whereas he seems to be able to ride it out and lives the single life happily whilst you tie yourself in knots and get emotionally ill.

Just came to say two things-- sounds like he can't be bothered to make any effort on the relationship/has checked out emotionally. Secondly., that if communication is a problem for him now then it probably always will be and how will you solve any future problems if he's not able to discuss them. He sounds a bit immature tbh OP and that becomes wearing after a while. Only you know what you are happy to accept.

I may be a cynic, but I think that when a relationship starts as a 'fairytale' the only way is down. Usually a long way.

I am sorry. I'm sure in your 6 years you've had some amazing times. But now the fairytale is over, what are you left with? He's not your prince and you are wasting your time hoping he'll change.

He's treating you very, very badly.

I recall a particular phase of a loved one's life I had to lay next to him trying to sleep as he wouldnt leave the phonecall till said person felt comfortable.

This was posted in his defence, to show how he can be unselfish and take time to support someone in need.

I wish I could get you to see how you have been trained to put your own needs way down the priority list. Why did he care so little about keeping you awake? Why not leave you to sleep and go else where to have the call?

Were you both living in a bed sit?

Why does he get to unilaterally decide who gets consideration and whose sleep is disturbed. This is what stops him being husband or father material. Fair enough when your time is interrupted but what when you still need to get up early with children and he has taken up your sleeping time helping someone else ?

I really encourage you to get some therapy to see how you are putting your own need way down the priority list.

DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with. We have similar values and goals in life. If it wasn't for covid - we would have been married a few months ago and family planning. I truly believe he has my best interest at heart. However, he is a very poor communicator and extremely passive.

Hmmm.... >>strokes big Freudian moustache

So , if you ask him to help with cleaning around the house , he will do it begrudgingly and will be in a bad mood for the rest of the day .
You feel taken for granted , but he feels that neither one of you will walk away , so there is no reason for him to change
He sulks ,a lot by the sound of it .
He ignores you and refuses to communicate with you ,when you approach him , in an effort to talk things through .
You have on occasions driven through your lunch hour to check he is where he says he is .(Tbh that may or may not have been in one of your posts , I thought it was , but if not ignore that )
When you attend a family do, and you are delayed , you are anxious and just want to get home to him . (Haven’t worked out if you’re scared he’s going to kick off , or if you think he’s up to no good , or a bit of both)
But ok , you’re now telling us how amazing he is , how he’s the most thoughtful selfless person ever , who would do anything for anyone . Yes , abusers are often like that . They want everyone to think they’re wonderful , it reinforces their self belief they are good people .
All of us don’t know what we’re talking about and have misunderstood him, and have been overly harsh on him .

I must be missing something here .

He sounded like he was showing traits of emotional abuse in your OP with the ignoring and withdrawing behaviour.
You shouldn't have to ask him to do housework and he shouldn't sulk about it!
I'd get your exams out the way and then revisit this.
Have to say that he doesn't sound like a catch to me.

DF means dear fiance so you can take off the mustache 😂

Wow. I'm very late to the party but have just read the whole thread.

I first posted on MN around 12 years ago regarding my relationship with my (now ex) husband.

I responded exactly as you have. I know how it feels. I appreciated the support and the perspective but I felt that people were describing back to me a man who I didn't recognise: they hadn't understood; they didn't know him; didn't take into account the times he'd supported me. They weren't describing my husband. The things they were predicting he'd go on to do were wrong; he wasn't like that. He wasn't like their exes...

But he was. He went on to do and be exactly what everyone on MN had predicted almost as though they'd written the script for him.

The bottom line is no one is bad all the time. Everyone knows that. His personal qualities of being intelligent and committed (speaking languages and playing sports) arent a reason to marry someone. They are good qualities and clearly reasons you think he would be a good partner for you but what about the rest of it? Loving someone is not enough. Does the relationship look like the relationship you wanted? Is this what you hoped for for yourself?

A man who can ignore you? A man who is quite capable of being domesticated when he lives alone and there is no one to do it for him but who immediately leaves it to the woman to do when she is there? He sees the housework/planning etc as your role. He doesn't see why he should when you are there. That will never change. He might make an effort now and again but this man you are living with now? This is the best he's ever going to be.

You have made lots of excuses for him and offered many explanations for the way he is (doesnt know what to do to make it better etc) but the truth is that is simply not how men who behave like this think. He is not ignoring you because he is giving you space. He is ignoring you because he doesn't care sufficiently about your happiness and mental wellbeing whilst you are being over backwards to understand and accommodate his

Many of the women responding to you will be much older than you - we've been there, done that, got the t shirt and worn it out. When I was not yet 30, I did exactly the same as you - many of us did. We reasoned, we explained, we understood, we excused... I'm now 45 and I can tell you that this isnt going to improve and can only agree with the others that this will only get worse if you marry and have children.

You say that if you had a child with SN, he would be great because he always supports the underdog. That isn't how it works. He might do sometimes but most of the time it would be your responsibility and, when he realised the situation would never improve, he would become frustrated and just pretend he hadn't heard or noticed and leave you to do it because you're better at it than him and he'd go back to silent gaming or sports with his mates. Back to things he wanted to do. Because the others are right, the examples you gave of him not being lazy or selfish are all things that benefit him.

I know you won't end things with him based on this thread but don't dismiss the words written because you can find ways to make it your fault.

Of course you're not perfect - none of us are - but this will not improve because this is who he is.

Many of us would like you to learn from our experiences and our mistakes but, sadly, that's not how life works and you need to realise it for yourself. But don't keep your head in the same for so long that you sleepwalk into a marriage with this man. Is this really what you want your marriage and your life to look like?

@Fefifofaff

DF means dear fiance so you can take off the mustache 😂

Crap! It was a bit itchy.

Put it this way - are you going to stop wanting to be organised? Or wanting to resolve problems? Or wanting to talk to him about things? Are you going to stop wanting a clean house and meals etc?
Of course you're not because those are core parts of who you are. If he sat you down to try and make you understand that you were wrong in wanting these things, would you change?

Of course you wouldn't. You might be able to pretend you had changed for a short while but those drives would always be ther and you would revert to type eventually because we all do.

It is no different for him.

There are occasions where he has scrapped all plans last minute to be with me.. often not explaining fully to the company he was meant to be with (again poor communication) but prioritising me. I don't recall the details but this has happened a few times, not for a while now (in the earlier years) as I have learnt I would rather not have his company if it means he'd rather be elsewhere.

You don't recall the details as these incidents happened a while ago now... ie. in the early years. He is not putting you before himself anymore-
And then you say "I have learnt I would rather not have his company". You have learnt? He has trained you well.

You say in our OP that your at your wit's end but you're not going to break up with him. You're going to have a little chat with him about doing more around the house and about communicating. It'll work for a while and then the cycle will start again. At some point you will have children with him and it will be even worse.
You'll "learn" how to keep the peace and he gets to do whatever he likes while you run the home, bring the children up, work part time possibly, perhaps sacrifice your career for him and all the rest of it.

Christ. It sounds like my relationship, except I have been married for over 30 years. We’re having a rough patch and I, once again, am thinking of leaving. I hear “I don’t have to work to your hw standards, I don’t care if it’s messy. You’re a control freak.” Controlling. He can be fun, caring and I love him - but I do ALL hw, admin, laundry, shopping, cooking, bins etc. I do work less hours but I feel like a scivvy. My dh also doesn’t like working, constantly quits jobs. Why have I stayed? Because we have good times, I married him with no doubts. Why don’t I leave? It never seems bad enough and at 55 it is basically condemning me to a single old age. If you’re not happy, leave. He won’t change.