Help: at my wits end, struggling to decide whether to break up or keep persevering

[skuali66]

Hi everyone, been a lurker for a little while - have noticed people on here seem to give out good quality and supportive advice and felt like i need some rn.

For context: We are around 30 (myself just under, him just over), been together for 6 years - met half way through professional degrees at university. Both of us do shift work, full time. We have been engaged 3 years.

To begin with, this relationship was what dreams are made of, totally idyllic fairytale-like. We both knew pretty rapidly this was it. Went from 0 - 100 fairly quickly and were both ecstatic. (Not too quickly, we were friends for a number of months first, only hung out in group settings and when we were no longer working closely in a professional setting started this relationship).

DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with. We have similar values and goals in life. If it wasn't for covid - we would have been married a few months ago and family planning. I truly believe he has my best interest at heart.

However, he is a very poor communicator and extremely passive. In our 6+ years together we have had to live apart at times due to working in different cities - during this time he has been more than capable of adulting alone (cooking, cleaning etc). However, now that we are back to living together (not too recent, have been doing for 2 years again) everything is down to me - I also work in the same field, yet I come home and do the housework. If i ask him, he will begrudgingly do it. If I dont, he will happily live in a tip and live off mostly takeaways. However, he is an excellent cook but as the years are going by he cant be bothered to cook as much. I also know he thinks I nag him. My dilemma is: if I say nothing, nothing gets done. If I request him to do some of the chores -I am a nag. A typical conversation would go: Would you mind hoovering? 'Ill do it tomorrow' ... I was hoping to get the cleaning out of the way today so can do XYZ tomorrow. I would then proceed to doing it myself (he may sometimes help but then would be in a foul mood for the rest of the day).

I feel like I am his mother sometimes - I am the one that has to make decisions whether it is planning a holiday, deciding where/when/how to get married, buying a car etc. He is incredibly passive and generally "doesnt mind". This can be great sometimes - I wonder if in the early years I enjoyed that I could plan anything and he'd be happy (Lets go to italy this summer/ lets go hike up this mountain next weekend / lets go visit friendXYZ or go for dinner @XYZ). Which was fine for smaller decisions. Whereas now when it comes to marriage/ buying a house/ buying a car Im finding it all a bit much having to figure things out on my own.

He is also unable to talk about feelings / problems effectively. In the early days, if we had a fight he would get emotional. These days I feel like i am taken for granted, I believe he thinks neither of us would walk away.

Last year I went to my parents home for a week or so before a major professional exam. Prior to leaving we had a very minor disagreement (about something trivial like TV/food), I went home as this is where the exam center was and had no communication from DP for a whole week. Ignored my messages, missed my calls etc. On the morning of the exam he wished me good luck (& think he phoned too). This was the first time my family became aware of there being a problem. I was nervous/anxious anyway for the exam and also down because I did not know what was happening in our relationship (is he going to break up? have we already broken up? is he just toying with my emotions?) When i came back, instantly gave him a big hug to which he reciprocated and we talked about never treating the other person that way again.

When we have minor arguments, I might go spend the afternoon in a different room etc with minimal communication but have never given him the silent treatment in the same way - at most just a few hours of being in a mood, nothing a sleep wont sort out.

This bank holiday weekend, we both had separate plans to see friends/family. However a maintenance issue at our property meant one of us had to stay. This one of us was.. me. He initially agreed we would both stay till the engineer comes to sort it then part ways. However he woke up the following day and got ready to leave ASAP to my confusion. I brought up that I thought we were both going to stay at least initially, he then sulked so I suggested he just goes if hes going to be miserable by staying and not add anything to the situation. He went away. No communication was made. I cancelled my plans. He has now returned (yesterday). Still very minimal communication (he brought some homemade dinner from his mothers which he offered). Normally, I would initiate the "lets talk.." and discuss why I am upset etc apologise for whatever I may have done and move on.

However, it is ALWAYS me that does this. So I decided not to yesterday.. he did not initiate the conversation, played videogames virtually with his friends, we ended up sleeping in different rooms. Woken up today and he has gone to the gym. (he has work in a few hours and this week our shift patterns mean that we wont see eachother - im working roughly 9-5 and he starts at 4pm-2am). I desperately want to make up so we can spend a few hours together but also upset that he never initiates making up.

This cycle has gone on enough times and I feel our arguments impact me more than him (he is able to have an enjoyable time with friends.. I am studying for another exam and cannot concentrate) I think about our problems often and if this is the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with...
I always end up forgiving and convincing myself the good traits make up for it. But I cant help but wonder what life would be like with a man thats not so passive...

Any help/advice much appreciated. Especially regarding making him realise the impact he has on my emotional wellbeing and getting him to apologise or initiate making up.

God Op. This man is abusive to you. The silent treatment he is giving you is abuse. It's so clear to everyone reading this.

You would benefit hugely from having counselling with a psychotherapist to talk about why you have such low expectations in your relationship.

Good luck and remember it isn't meant to be hard when you are with the right person. You can find someone with the good bits who doesn't make you feel this awful.

The way he behaved when you had an exam was cruel. Can you see that? Not thoughtless. Cruel.

so he apparently decided to give me space
And you did go to speak to him. Was he generously giving you space by ignoring you sat next to him? do you think he listened to you say something and thought the kindest thing to do right now for op, the woman I love sitting next to me trying to talk to me, is to pretend she doesn’t exist? Or, was he just a bog standard sulking passive aggressive ignoring guy trying to shame and pressure you into doing everything for him and exactly as he wants it?

How do I say this without it coming across like an empty threat?

You can't, because in your case it is an empty threat. You have no intention of leaving him right now, regardless of how this latest fight resolves. He isn't stupid. He knows that you aren't going anywhere. If you want to make this threat, you have to be prepared to follow it through and walk away.

Please hear me when I say this: having children with this man will be hard. Physically, mentally and emotionally. You won't have the happy family of your dreams with a man like this. You'll have all of the donkey work, none of the support or camaraderie, and you won't be able to enjoy your kids like you should because you'll be doing two parents' work. You will resent him more than you ever thought possible.

I know you think that 6 years is a lifetime and you can't "throw it away", but that's a sunk-cost fallacy. Better you write off those 6 years than write off the rest of your entire life. You are very young and you don't need to settle for this.

One doesn't have to see this as good person vs bad person.

What you need to realise is, is that if you have children with him, you will most likely be very stressed, and him even more so. You will expected to do everything - organising days out, remembering doctors appointments, buying their uniform, organising playdates. Your future may well be this -

www.workingmother.com/this-comic-perfectly-explains-mental-load-working-mothers-bear#page-42

He might do some things....but only the fun stuff or things he might enjoy, like reading bedtime stories. After many years of struggling and further relationship problems, you might decide to split, realising that you're doing most of it alone anyway. When the kids will go over to his, you'll know they'll be eating rubbish whilst he gets to play hero Dad who likes doing fun stuff and is chillaxed.

is always up for activities/adventures, very very (almost too) laid back, agreeable to almost any of my suggestions

• yes, but you're the one presumably who does all the suggesting and the organising. All he has to say is yes.

I can understand your connection to him, but I think he wants you to be a mum to him. Being with someone who communicates through silences is hugely frustrating - a silence could mean, enjoyment, anger sadness, revenge - it's a constant fucking guessing game.

You seem to be a fair person - you try to balance out his negatives with then writing positives in your post. Maybe doing this gives you a sense of comfort because it makes the bad things look less bad to yourself. It's understandable. Most people are a myriad of good & bad, and you're acknowledging this, which is good, but I think it's time to face up to some difficult things -

will always encourage my social plans (I feel bad, i dont love it when he organises virtual videogaming with his friends.. but if im going out for a drink, he'll always encourage)

I think you need to consider the possibility that he is more selfish and self-centred than you might want to realise. It's just a thought. It's good that he encourages you to go out this way.....but it may not be coming from a truly altruistic place. He might be doing it because there's something in it for him - he gets to videogame without you being there to watch or judge. Are you so sure he would be as keen if your outings had no benefit to him?

Also, could you elaborate why you have an issue with his gaming?

This just happened. I've gone to sit next to him while he's gaming to say I'm not able to concentrate on my work. Met with no response.
This sort of behaviour really makes me want to break up.

He knows you’re feeling very anxious , and uncertain about his behaviour. He knows your hurting . You go to him to talk about how you are feeling but instead he chooses to ignore you . My kids used to behave like this when they were moody teenagers . . He sounds emotionally manipulative . He knows full well that you aren’t going anywhere , do you will accept whatever meagre crumbs he throws your way . Make no mistake , this is not a man to whom your happiness is at all important .
If you go on to have a child with this man , god help you and them . This childish behaviour will become the bane of your life . You will be organising and caring for your child all on your own , while your man child pouts and ignores you , or is off virtual gaming . Honestly , life is meant to be fun . You should look back and feel happiness and love in your life . It’s not meant to be a hard painful obstacle course , spent with someone who doesn’t seem to care enough to even try and meet you halfway .

@Dontletitbeyou

You go to him to talk about how you are feeling but instead he chooses to ignore you . My kids used to behave like this when they were moody teenagers

This.

I'm glad the OP is starting to think this through before having children. She is wise to. I'd be surprised if there weren't more unhealthy things in this relationship as well that she hasn't quite realised yet because she's in the thick of it.

The more I read these type of threads the more I see that women do this a lot. The justifying of the guy, the explanation its not written accurately and that they arent perfect either etc etc etc. It makes no difference. He is still lazy. Not with the stuff he likes or sees as nice tasks, like giving you a lift somewhere but with stuff he sees as boring, like housework or planning and research for buying a house, car or getting married..

You can cope now as no kiddies in the picture but honestly it will breed such resentment and kill the relationship in the years to come. No positives will outweigh the boring stuff being all down to you.

The only thing you can do is sit down with him and explain that you are not happy to do all the housework/planning and organising. Being laid back is all good and well but you are both adults and have shit to get done. If you cant be a team when it comes to the tasks no one likes then what is the point.

The silent treatment has got to stop too. Dont tip toe around the subject, tell him you find it unacceptable and do not appreciate being the one to always initiate conversation. Be direct and dont mince your words. I say that because alot of the time its all "he might be offended if i say this or he be defensive or he might get angry". Again, it doesnt matter if he does, he needs to understand this is serious and you NEED to see and clock his reaction to it all. Whilst you cant make him change or fix the issues in your relationship all by yourself he is capable of realising it cannot continue as is and adapt his behaviour. If he wants it enough its more than doable. If nothing changes then you have your answer.
Best of luck.

He might do some things....but only the fun stuff or things he might enjoy, like reading bedtime stories. After many years of struggling and further relationship problems, you might decide to split, realising that you're doing most of it alone anyway. When the kids will go over to his, you'll know they'll be eating rubbish whilst he gets to play hero Dad who likes doing fun stuff and is chillaxed.

This is my reality. He actually waited until we had kids to show his selfishness and laziness. If he had given me warning like the op's bf had, there is no way that I would have had children with him.

@timeisnotaline

so he apparently decided to give me space And you did go to speak to him. Was he generously giving you space by ignoring you sat next to him? do you think he listened to you say something and thought the kindest thing to do right now for op, the woman I love sitting next to me trying to talk to me, is to pretend she doesn’t exist? Or, was he just a bog standard sulking passive aggressive ignoring guy trying to shame and pressure you into doing everything for him and exactly as he wants it?

Exactly.

And this is how he will treat his children, too. Don't kid yourself. Can you doom your offspring to this emotional abuse, in good conscience?

Okay, so you don't want to leave him. But he's hard to live with.

What about living separately?

I know it's not ideal if you want, ultimately, to marry and start a family. But it would give you space to be away from his mess and he may relearn that a house doesn't run itself.

Ultimately, I think that you've just outgrown each other, but you are holding on to how to used to be out of habit. But he is becoming increasingly disrespectful and taking you for granted more and more, whilst you are responding by becoming quite controlling and trying to drive things in the direction you want them to go.

So I'd say live apart for a while to see if it helps (it won't) and look on it as a precursor to separation.

Does it ever work - that someone threatens to leave, and the other person then sorts out all the issues, and they never happen again?
Maybe start a thread on that.

What was the last time that he did or said something and you thought to yourself how lucky you were to have him as a partner?

Imagine it's five years in the future and you're no longer together.

• What was the main reason you broke up?
• You're looking for a new partner. What traits are you looking out for in particular?

@Ikeameatballs

I think you are both doctors.

You will both hopefully have challenging but rewarding careers.

If you stay with him however you will need to continue to bear the mental load for two adult lives. And any dc you may have. And all of the boring chores that come with being an adult.

Ask yourself this, is he a bad colleague? Does he leave tasks for the night shift when he’s on a long day? Does he expect the nursing staff to pick up after him? Does he treat juniors like dogsbodies? If the answer to those is “No” then why is he choosing to behave as he does with you? Are you less worthy than the others? He’s treating you this way because he intrinsically values your time an effort less than his own. If the answer is “Yes” then he treats everyone badly.

This man is not a good catch. He is making you unhappy now and will continue to do so.

I'll go one further - are you a Medical Registrar? If so, (abd actually regardless of what type of doctor you are), your work life is hard enough without coming home to a shit tip and having to think of something nice for dinner because your feckless fiance can't be bothered.

He isn't asking what's wrong because he doesn't want to know. If you have children - they will be your issue to deal with.

I know it isn't what you want to hear, but don't waste your life on the sunk costs fallacy. He is unlikely to change - if you aren't happy now, you will be more unhappy with a mortgage and children in the mix.

If he was mine hed be dumped and quick. Please dont marry him he is not husband/father material and is plain lazy and selfish. It will be 10 times worse with a child. I'd have lost my shit by now.

If he's like this in the good times, what on earth would he be like in the bad times?
God forbid you developed an illness, or you had a child with additional needs, or an older family member needed help. Would he have your back?

I understand why you want to make it work. If he agrees to listen properly to you - If he can change and not make you feel guilty for asking him to pull his weight maybe it can work. However unfortunately I fall into the camp of thinking it will only get much, much worse if you have children. In your situation I would have to give it one last go.

If you do decide to give him another chance, I would encourage you to avoid absolutely setting out what he needs to do.

Don't let him stay under the radar as he has so far.

Let him do the work, to work out what he truly thinks is fair, what restitution he wants to make and where you go from here.

How he addresses this will be key to whether it can work long term. Good luck.

[quote skuali66]@fuandylp
it sounds like im making excuses but his plans were more solid, were made before mine and even on the morning he was offering that I go with him. he thought its acceptable to let the works be done without us being in (i dont think it is hence why I stayed and he didnt) but in general he is more trusting of people - in the time we lived apart, he'd let people come in to set up wifi etc in his flat that i dont live in whereas I always prefer to be at home

I dont know why he couldnt have communicated in that time, this is something that does really grate on me. When I asked just now before he went to work he said its because when he first came back yesterday he tried to (granted, i was a bit cold.. who wouldnt be?!) so he apparently decided to give me space. He supposedly feels like hes treading on egg shells and would rather wait for me to speak to him than say the wrong thing[/quote]
OP end this.

the basic bits of a relationship are not there. He has checked out, you are trying desperately to cling onto what isnt there, anymore?

You wont end it though, even though the majority of people on here will tell you they have experienced this.

life is too short. soon as you start doubting a relationship and justifying why you want to be with someone - its over

This was a really difficult read. Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions & advice.

Hear me out when I say this.. I struggle with being miserable all the time. By that I mean, serious conversations have been had in the past (I am by no means keeping it a secret that I have seriously considered what my life would be without this person/relationship) and that if nothing was to change then this is not something I would want for the rest of my life. Of course the atmosphere becomes very sombre and rightly so.

However, after a sleep or at most after a couple of days I am pretty much back to normal. I don't enjoy or perhaps am not able to carry a persona of misery for long. For example, it might not take much for him to say something that makes me laugh etc. This almost makes a mockery of the situation, I wish I could be serious at times like this because I do still mean everything just as seriously but naturally hes now more relaxed and gradually (yet rapidly) things revert back to normal. Life is easier when you dont hold grudges, the last thing anyone wants after a looong day at work etc is to come home to someone you cant just be positive around.

I obviously have a lot of thinking to do, and a sit down conversation probably needs to be had but in a non-threatening, neutral, realistic (without making him "feel like treading eggshells" ) kind of way which I am not sure how that will be achieved. Probably for that to be achieved, we need to live through a period of normalcy first and bring this up not shortly after an argument like now.

You're still contorting yourself to make it work around him. His attitude, his moods, his priorities. Where are you in all this?

Of course things are better when you let issues go for an easier life. The problem comes when there's an issue you can't let go.

PP gave an example of a child with additional needs. How do you think he would be in that situation?

Thanks for taking the advice in the spirit in which it was given OP.

I’m sure he was a great Bf when you first got together but as PP said, he’s not good husband and father material.

I think when we are younger, we are attracted to our partners for their personality - are they fun to be with, do we have the same hobbies and interests.

But when we think of settling down and having kids, what matters much more is their character . Traits like honesty , kindness, Integrity , fairness, selflessness, having the same values, being a hard worker - these become so much important than liking the same bands or playing the same sport.

I think you have outgrown him in this regard. It’s not anyone’s fault, it’s just you have grown in different directions and you want different things in a partner than you did then.

His values and Priorities are very different from yours - you can tell from his actions and not his words.

Eg Whatever his Words say about your career, his actions show that he doesn’t support it and in fact tries to sabotage it.

You are still taking all the responsiblty for this OP.

Yeah don't hold a grudge, be a good girl and come on cheer up for your boyfriend.
That's what your update sounds like.

@Fefifofaff

You're still contorting yourself to make it work around him. His attitude, his moods, his priorities. Where are you in all this?

Of course things are better when you let issues go for an easier life. The problem comes when there's an issue you can't let go.

PP gave an example of a child with additional needs. How do you think he would be in that situation?

I actually think he would be great. I know I have set the tone with the initial post, but he almost always puts people that he cares about (and sometimes even people he doesnt care about/know) before him. Supportive of the underdog I guess.

Whether its something trivial like having the last piece of cake or staying up for hours late at night to support a loved one (he wont necessarily do a great deal of talking, but is a pretty good listener and the odd few words that do come out are genuine and supportive). I recall a particular phase of a loved one's life I had to lay next to him trying to sleep as he wouldnt leave the phonecall till said person felt comfortable.

When it comes to hosting people - very quick to offer the bed and take to the floor.

And in response to someone elses post (cant rem username) from when I caught up with all the responses since yesterday - I work full time, but when it all gets a bit much have always been offered the option of going part-time / quitting and being fully supported. I do believe this. One thing I must admit is that he is generous. Im far more stringent. (we probably both have a very similar amount of $)