Help: at my wits end, struggling to decide whether to break up or keep persevering

[skuali66]

Hi everyone, been a lurker for a little while - have noticed people on here seem to give out good quality and supportive advice and felt like i need some rn.

For context: We are around 30 (myself just under, him just over), been together for 6 years - met half way through professional degrees at university. Both of us do shift work, full time. We have been engaged 3 years.

To begin with, this relationship was what dreams are made of, totally idyllic fairytale-like. We both knew pretty rapidly this was it. Went from 0 - 100 fairly quickly and were both ecstatic. (Not too quickly, we were friends for a number of months first, only hung out in group settings and when we were no longer working closely in a professional setting started this relationship).

DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with. We have similar values and goals in life. If it wasn't for covid - we would have been married a few months ago and family planning. I truly believe he has my best interest at heart.

However, he is a very poor communicator and extremely passive. In our 6+ years together we have had to live apart at times due to working in different cities - during this time he has been more than capable of adulting alone (cooking, cleaning etc). However, now that we are back to living together (not too recent, have been doing for 2 years again) everything is down to me - I also work in the same field, yet I come home and do the housework. If i ask him, he will begrudgingly do it. If I dont, he will happily live in a tip and live off mostly takeaways. However, he is an excellent cook but as the years are going by he cant be bothered to cook as much. I also know he thinks I nag him. My dilemma is: if I say nothing, nothing gets done. If I request him to do some of the chores -I am a nag. A typical conversation would go: Would you mind hoovering? 'Ill do it tomorrow' ... I was hoping to get the cleaning out of the way today so can do XYZ tomorrow. I would then proceed to doing it myself (he may sometimes help but then would be in a foul mood for the rest of the day).

I feel like I am his mother sometimes - I am the one that has to make decisions whether it is planning a holiday, deciding where/when/how to get married, buying a car etc. He is incredibly passive and generally "doesnt mind". This can be great sometimes - I wonder if in the early years I enjoyed that I could plan anything and he'd be happy (Lets go to italy this summer/ lets go hike up this mountain next weekend / lets go visit friendXYZ or go for dinner @XYZ). Which was fine for smaller decisions. Whereas now when it comes to marriage/ buying a house/ buying a car Im finding it all a bit much having to figure things out on my own.

He is also unable to talk about feelings / problems effectively. In the early days, if we had a fight he would get emotional. These days I feel like i am taken for granted, I believe he thinks neither of us would walk away.

Last year I went to my parents home for a week or so before a major professional exam. Prior to leaving we had a very minor disagreement (about something trivial like TV/food), I went home as this is where the exam center was and had no communication from DP for a whole week. Ignored my messages, missed my calls etc. On the morning of the exam he wished me good luck (& think he phoned too). This was the first time my family became aware of there being a problem. I was nervous/anxious anyway for the exam and also down because I did not know what was happening in our relationship (is he going to break up? have we already broken up? is he just toying with my emotions?) When i came back, instantly gave him a big hug to which he reciprocated and we talked about never treating the other person that way again.

When we have minor arguments, I might go spend the afternoon in a different room etc with minimal communication but have never given him the silent treatment in the same way - at most just a few hours of being in a mood, nothing a sleep wont sort out.

This bank holiday weekend, we both had separate plans to see friends/family. However a maintenance issue at our property meant one of us had to stay. This one of us was.. me. He initially agreed we would both stay till the engineer comes to sort it then part ways. However he woke up the following day and got ready to leave ASAP to my confusion. I brought up that I thought we were both going to stay at least initially, he then sulked so I suggested he just goes if hes going to be miserable by staying and not add anything to the situation. He went away. No communication was made. I cancelled my plans. He has now returned (yesterday). Still very minimal communication (he brought some homemade dinner from his mothers which he offered). Normally, I would initiate the "lets talk.." and discuss why I am upset etc apologise for whatever I may have done and move on.

However, it is ALWAYS me that does this. So I decided not to yesterday.. he did not initiate the conversation, played videogames virtually with his friends, we ended up sleeping in different rooms. Woken up today and he has gone to the gym. (he has work in a few hours and this week our shift patterns mean that we wont see eachother - im working roughly 9-5 and he starts at 4pm-2am). I desperately want to make up so we can spend a few hours together but also upset that he never initiates making up.

This cycle has gone on enough times and I feel our arguments impact me more than him (he is able to have an enjoyable time with friends.. I am studying for another exam and cannot concentrate) I think about our problems often and if this is the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with...
I always end up forgiving and convincing myself the good traits make up for it. But I cant help but wonder what life would be like with a man thats not so passive...

Any help/advice much appreciated. Especially regarding making him realise the impact he has on my emotional wellbeing and getting him to apologise or initiate making up.

Read the book I suggested earlier.

And yes even though he goes to the gym he is lazy in the house. He just knows you will do it

@Aquamarine1029

You know you're not happy, you know this relationship simply isn't working for you anymore, you know he's a lazy manchild, and yet you're still making excuses for him. Just stop.

Agree.

OP, you say in subject line you are at wit's end. Apparently for good reason.

He's not the only man on earth and tbh he doesn't sound all that amazing. Move on to something better. There's nothing wrong with being single, in the meantime.

It's not whether he has skills and qualities that are admirable, or even that he is happy with more mess than you. It's that he shuts down the conversation about areas of difference which is the part I see as the problem. It is how he resolves things with his partner that is the problem. All the other stuff wouldn't matter if he took a constructive approach to resolving matters.
Silent treatment etc is not remotely constructive. So if you can live with being the one who gives way or have your complaints which require change from him ignored one way or another then carry on and enjoy those other nice things you mention. Personally it would slowly kill the relationship for me because I would cease to raise things when they needed addressing knowing it would get me nowhere and that's not a partnership. Kids would make this ten times worse imo

Hmmm. This is your first very serious relationship, yes? It does sound to me as if you have outgrown each other. I had a boyfriend like this in similar circumstances, we were together 7 years of which 3 we lived together.
Eventually I ended it.
I loved him dearly, he was in many ways a good guy but I wanted a partner, not a child. I didn’t want to have to carry him through life, and always be the one nagging and organising, and I found the endless passivity, the lack of initiative, the selfishness and unwillingness to take responsibility incredibly irritating, unfair and exhausting.

It was the most painful break up I ever had, but the best decision I ever made. We had no future.

The crazy thing was, I think he knew deep down we needed to end things but he was SO passive he couldn’t even summon the energy to try and talk to me about our relationship. Everything was up to me.

It sounds like your position might be similar. There are very few relationships in which someone is all bad, so the fact he has some plus points, whilst in his favour, is not really that relevant. The point is, his flaws are really detrimental to your wellbeing and to your progress in life.

If you have an exam looming, perhaps this is not the time to destroy yourself peace of mind completely by breaking up with him. I would say wait until the exam is over, and then have a serious chat with him with a view to calling it a day.

I am really sorry for you as I know how hard this is and will be, whether you slog away at it or break free. But ultimately I think you will be happier without him dragging you down.

Cut your losses and leave - you are currently desperately clinging to the sunk costs fallacy. Relationships don't have to be this hard work, especially when you are in your twenties and don't have children. He sounds really awful even with your updates. I promise you will look back at this and wonder why you stuck with this awful relationship for so long.

@Aerial2020

Yep, still not getting any examples OP. The stuff you described is basic stuff in a relationship. Doesn't make him amazing.

Also, all the 'he works hard' and isn't selfish examples are all things thay benefit him
Eg gym, Uni team
When it comes to the two of you, he is selfish because he is letting you sort it out.
The house, the communication etc
What would happen if you stopped?

I am feeling so very conflicted. You all definitely make valid points but I am also aware that its biassed towards me and perhaps if I wrote this when in a better mood it would be a more fair representation.

That said, this is the situation we are in now. 'RE: what would happen if i stopped?' Well I have stopped, I havent approached him since he came back yesterday in the hope that he will... Im beginning to lose that hope.

But equally I am not going to throw it all away in an instant. I need him to get a reality check he needs to get his act together otherwise this relationship is very much threatened. The way that it is now is not what I want for the rest of my life. I accept it wont go back to the honeymoon stage but the first few years were great. Whereas he has said time and time again he would never leave me, when he asked me to marry him he meant that for life etc.

1. How do I make him realise the possibility of losing me is very real?
2. How long do I leave it without me trying to make amends - the rest of the working week? Continue sleeping in a different room, cooking meals for eachother etc and what happens at the end, when we finally are off at the same time - have the dreaded conversation? But in his defence, when was he supposed to make ammends when we are not home at the same time. As for right now, he might think im in a separate room wiht my laptop studying. I can see how this looks like im making excuses (and perhaps I am), I just trying to be reasonable in trying to move forwards (whatever form that me be in)

@ChickensMightFly

It's not whether he has skills and qualities that are admirable, or even that he is happy with more mess than you. It's that he shuts down the conversation about areas of difference which is the part I see as the problem. It is how he resolves things with his partner that is the problem. All the other stuff wouldn't matter if he took a constructive approach to resolving matters. Silent treatment etc is not remotely constructive. So if you can live with being the one who gives way or have your complaints which require change from him ignored one way or another then carry on and enjoy those other nice things you mention. Personally it would slowly kill the relationship for me because I would cease to raise things when they needed addressing knowing it would get me nowhere and that's not a partnership. Kids would make this ten times worse imo

Good post Chickens.

So hard. Agree with pp you should get the exams etc out of the way before you tackle this. For your own peace of mind as you are conflicted telling him what you are feeling so he can respond is not a bad idea. The response will cement things one way or another. He is in a relationship with you so if there is someone out there whose personality would respond differently that doesn't mean he can't relate to you, he needs to if he's going to marry you.
My dh used to feel that the point of a conversation about feelings was to find a fix... Now he understands that sometimes that's the goal but sometimes understanding each other is the goal. So if your emotional landscape isn't one he navigates intuitively that doesn't mean he can't be shown the way... But he's got to be interested in looking at the map.
And it goes without saying that all this is a two way street, but it doesn't sound like you are not at least trying to understand him

You say he's not lazy because he goes to the gym, so he is not lazy in the traditional sense of avoiding physical exertion,
He's lazy in the sense that he only wants to do what he enjoys doing or what directly benefits him, it's not a partnership it's all about indulging himself

"at my wits end, struggling to decide whether to break up or keep persevering"

Like PP, I think he sounds selfish and generally lazy about your relationship. Yes, there are some minor examples of nice gestures which probably cost him more or less nothing at the time. But allowing you to go away for a major exam with an unresolved argument between you and refusing to engage with your attempts to put it right - that is truly shitty behaviour which I would find hard to forgive. That is not a "wonderful person"; it is not someone who is "Warm, caring, makes me feel safe, supportive.. I could go on." That's true bastard behaviour.

But even if he were the nicest person on the planet, I would say that if, before marriage, you are struggling to decide whether to "keep persevering", then this is not the right relationship for you long-term. The fact that it was amazing in the early years doesn't mean that this is a relationship which should last forever. A great many relationships are amazing in the early years but run their course and don't become life-time commitments. You really need to go into marriage feeling truly excited about the prospect of sharing your future with that person, not thinking "shall I keep persevering".

This is a guy who lets you down emotionally time and again and expects you to do all the adult work of running a household and makes you feel like you're nagging if you ask him to help. He tosses you the odd crumb when it requires minimal effort from him but lets you down on the big stuff. Can you imagine what he would be like around children? I think he would be useless - unwilling to take on any serious parenting, wanting to maintain his pre-fatherhood hobbies etc.

It won't do, OP, and I think deep down you know that and in fact it was providential that COVID prevented you getting married. I think you should give serious thought to stopping persevering and walking away.

Oh Op, that's the thing, you can't 'make' him realise. You've tried telling him and he is still not stepping up to work on this with you.
He needs to do that himself. How many times are you going to keep doing this?

DF is a wonderful person - kind, caring, loyal, polite, intelligent, supportive and easy to live with

he changes plans last minute and you are the one inconvenienced
he ignores you when you argue
he ignored you for a week when you went away
he sulks when you argue
you have to initiate the "making up" every time
he doesn't pull his weight with housework
he doesn't cook

I truly believe he has my best interest at heart. - think again!

You are questioning whether you should stay. That in itself is enough to leave.

You're not throwing this away in an instant.
You are clinging on.
Why are you taking all the responsibility?

@CustardyCreams

Hmmm. This is your first very serious relationship, yes? It does sound to me as if you have outgrown each other. I had a boyfriend like this in similar circumstances, we were together 7 years of which 3 we lived together. Eventually I ended it. I loved him dearly, he was in many ways a good guy but I wanted a partner, not a child. I didn’t want to have to carry him through life, and always be the one nagging and organising, and I found the endless passivity, the lack of initiative, the selfishness and unwillingness to take responsibility incredibly irritating, unfair and exhausting.

It was the most painful break up I ever had, but the best decision I ever made. We had no future.

The crazy thing was, I think he knew deep down we needed to end things but he was SO passive he couldn’t even summon the energy to try and talk to me about our relationship. Everything was up to me.

It sounds like your position might be similar. There are very few relationships in which someone is all bad, so the fact he has some plus points, whilst in his favour, is not really that relevant. The point is, his flaws are really detrimental to your wellbeing and to your progress in life.

If you have an exam looming, perhaps this is not the time to destroy yourself peace of mind completely by breaking up with him. I would say wait until the exam is over, and then have a serious chat with him with a view to calling it a day.

I am really sorry for you as I know how hard this is and will be, whether you slog away at it or break free. But ultimately I think you will be happier without him dragging you down.

2nd. The 1st lasted ~2.5/3 years and was a really very painful breakup (im talking, couldnt eat, sleep etc kind of breakup) I was very young then and am certain no potential break would be as bad as that. Had a few casual relationships since then and this current one.

Your post has resonated with me the post.
"I didn’t want to have to carry him through life, and always be the one nagging and organising, and I found the endless passivity, the lack of initiative, the selfishness and unwillingness to take responsibility incredibly irritating, unfair and exhausting."
I wish I could say its different for me.. this is my life.
This too.. "The point is, his flaws are really detrimental to your wellbeing "

The exam isnt imminent, a few months away (which in the mean time we were supposed to be buying a house and sorting out our rearranged wedding plans).

Thank you for the empathy.

I dont want to take any rash decisions (he's going through a rough patch outside of our relationship too - recent change in job for the worse and parent has cancer). I think for my own peace of mind I need to give this one last good go and if things dont improve then we need to have that chat.

In the meantime, I am not sure how to approach this mess.. any advice?

When you bring it up you should keep it simple and tell him that you don't want to spend your life with someone who turns it back (metaphorically speaking) when areas of contention arise. If he can't be more constructive with resolving points of difference then he isn't ready to be in a partnership with you or anyone, his approach is the definition of a fair weather friend and you want a partner who will stand shoulder to shoulder with you even in stormy weather.

If he can't reflect on that and realise you have a point and change he wouldn't be the first person but he might. Some people have to lose it all before they will take a long hard look at themselves, some see the cliff edge before they walk off it and change direction...

People are giving you advice.
Listen

Oops should say 'Turns his back'

Would you mind hoovering? 'Ill do it tomorrow'

I would take the same stance

‘What’s for tea?’ ‘I’ll do it tomorrow’

OP if and when children come along they need dealing with now, feeding changing, naps, all have to be on their schedule.

He can’t and won’t think about anyone else, if you say you’re leaving he’ll miss the clean clothes and food prep - but will he miss you?

I had a lovely thought last week about wanting a wife (straight female here) how lovely would that be? Someone to cook and clean, do the washing and look after the kids while I pottered off to the gym or have dinner cooked by my mom? I could do hobbies and read the odd bedtime story without putting in any real parenting!

Ask yourself - would he miss you?

You don't want to make any rash decisions and give it one last go.
Sounds like are still hoping he will magically change and it will all be ok.
It won't.
My advice is concentrate on your exam. Concentrate on you. Stop putting energy into this. Stop thinking about what to do and do what is best for YOU.

OP I would write him a letter describing how you feel and what you need him to be and do. Tell him that if he can't see it from your point of view and make changes then you cannot continue this relationship. Because however much you love him, this will end up in even more resentment and hate.

Hopefully that will make him see or at least make him realise what he's risking.

@BluebellsGreenbells

Would you mind hoovering? 'Ill do it tomorrow'

I would take the same stance

‘What’s for tea?’ ‘I’ll do it tomorrow’

OP if and when children come along they need dealing with now, feeding changing, naps, all have to be on their schedule.

He can’t and won’t think about anyone else, if you say you’re leaving he’ll miss the clean clothes and food prep - but will he miss you?

I had a lovely thought last week about wanting a wife (straight female here) how lovely would that be? Someone to cook and clean, do the washing and look after the kids while I pottered off to the gym or have dinner cooked by my mom? I could do hobbies and read the odd bedtime story without putting in any real parenting!

Ask yourself - would he miss you?

Yes! This is exactly what I say to mumsnet when they say how hard it is for men when they don't pull their weight or swan off for their hobbies. Who is looking after the children and the house so they can do that? It's taken for granted that women will do this and not complain. Look at what women do. All the damn time

It sounds very much like you think by changing your behaviour you can change him. Like 'what can you do to get him to realise you could leave'.

No.

Okay so you may drive a temporary change by threatening to leave, but it's unlikely to bring about a longterm change which feels good and natural. The dynamic is set between you and it is hard to change this. It also means you would need to become someone you are not - to twist yourself into an unnatural shape for the sake of keeping a relationship (which he is not doing - by the way).

Ultimately I suppose you would need to permanently change your needs and expectations - to step right back and stop making any decisions, stop instigating communication etc and see if he steps up.

One last thing - the last thing you need if you have going to have a family is a man who won't do his fair share at home, gets stroppy if you challenge him on it and fucks off for half the day. Just no way - it would be awful.

You cannot change people; they are who they are.

You know it’s not working.

He won’t support you in difficult times (all marriages have them, especially if children come along), the two of you will not be a strong unit, you will always carry everything on your own.

I need him to get a reality check he needs to get his act together otherwise this relationship is very much threatened
Not gunna happen.

1) How do I make him realise the possibility of losing me is very real? You can't. Not until you leave. Then he will apologise, ask you to go back, ask you to let him prove he will change. You'll go back. He won't change. You still won't leave.

2) How long do I leave it without me trying to make amends - the rest of the working week? Continue sleeping in a different room, cooking meals for eachother etc and what happens at the end, when we finally are off at the same time - have the dreaded conversation?

Shouldn't take that long. If he really cared, he'd make the effort to meet you half way. You are doing all the grunt work. This is a few years in, can you do this for the next 30/40? Always being the one to initiate an apology? Always the one cooking/cleaning?

But in his defence, when was he supposed to make ammends when we are not home at the same time. Little note? SMS/phone call? Flowers with a little card left on the side? There are ways if he really cared.

I can see how this looks like im making excuses (and perhaps I am) You are. Because as usual, women are conditioned to believe they can fix it all, and that men just need time but we can't and they don't.

He is well aware of what he is doing and none of it supports your I truly believe he has my best interest at heart line.

Remember, he is FULLY aware of how he is treating you. He is CHOOSING to treat you like this.

You'd be absolutely insane to marry this guy and have children with him. The future of your life is mapped out - couldn't be clearer. You'll be here in 5 years then ten years complaining about your husband who leaves all the child care and housework to you, your career has suffered, you don't want to have sex with him, he's passive aggressive and sulky when you ask him to help, you don't even fancy him anymore...you'll be divorced in a decade if you do this or even worse - living this for the rest of your life, resentful and miserable.