Friends' husbands making passes

[GettingItWrong]

I have lost a number of friendships with men and couple friendships over the past few years.

The friendships turn sour because, at some point, the man makes a pass of some description at me.

Ive had everything from a drunken move to kiss me when their wife is out of the room, to propositions for an affair to declarations of love.

Only one of these friendships has survived because his wife was a bloody star. She asked him directly if he had feelings for me, he said yes, they split up and she asked to meet me and told me she knew it was nothing I had done and she wanted to make sure we didnt lose our friendship because of him. It was awkward for a few months but now our friendship is stronger than ever. They have now reconciled and our friendships are (nearly) back on track.

Aside from that, I was friends with a couple for several years. We went on holidays together, our children were friends, we spent christmases together and then, BAM, he made a drunken pass at me. I turned him down. I didn't tell his wife for various reasons (I know she wouldn't ever leave him and I didn't want to put a bomb in the middle of it; I didn't want my family to lose their family; I didn't want to lose the friendships). Anyway, I rejected him, put it down to drink and it didnt happen again until 2 years later when he told me he loved me. Again I rejected him, tried to make light of it, I guess, but was also clear that he needed to sort out his own relationship and not drag me into it. All fine for a few months until he changed his behaviour towards me - made spiteful remarks about me when we were out if a man spoke to me; comments that I was 'ugly'; and eventually something happened and I haven't spoken to either of them since.

I don't make friends easily and these were the closest friendships I had.

I've had similar issues with male friends: some single, some married but where I don't know the wives.

I've never had an affair or been an affair partner. I don't flirt with married men. I don't feel flattered by it. I don't message the husbands/partners and always respond appropriately to any messages they send me (eg if it's the husband who messages to invite me over for the evening). I always make arrangements with the wife or I make a group WhatsApp chat to make plans and only ever message the men in that (eg if I ask to borrow something or answer a question they'd asked).

I'm perpetually single and, other than never socialising with couples, I don't know what I could do differently.

I'm aware I could tell their wives when they do it but I dont want to lose my friendships with them and, as I don't encourage it in any way, i figure that the onus is on the man to behave decently.

But i withdraw completely if its persistent.

Before anyone picks me up on this being only two friendships I've mentioned, that's because these are two friendships that were affected last year. There have been many more previously that have fallen by the wayside.

I've just become friends with another couple and I really don't want it to happen again.

What can I do that I might not be doing already to prevent this from happening? Might there be signals I'm sending that I'm unaware of?

The wives have never had an issue with me being friends with their husbands - I'm trusted precisely because I'm not a flirty person and I don't ever behave inappropriately around them.

When holidays and nights outs have been planned together? Its difficult. I dont want to draw attention to the fact something has happened

I wouldn't go on a holiday with a guy who had said he had the hots/was in love with me!

I think Op you want to continue as things are, lots of holidays and nights out, including on your own with men, and can't quite accept that if you do that and spend a lot of time on your own or creating opportunities, then some men will take them.

It's a shame to have to change, but I really don't have this problem any more, as I have tonnes of fab female friends, go out mainly with them, call out 'hi' to their husbands on my way past and don't spend time in situations that could be misunderstood or used that way.

I think it's a bit different working in a bar, that is fairly standard working environment, but you can control this- and I guess you just have to decide how much you want that holiday, I would never as a single woman holiday with a couple as it would be an odd vibe for me, and three is a crowd, I just think you might be barking up the wrong tree with your choice of friendship settings, because you believe in these ideal friendships rather than basically accepting a good amount of middle-aged men are quite crap.

Yep. Used to happen a lot in a former workplace and happened again after I got divorced.

Made me really wary of sending the wrong signals and actually quite shy around men.

One of my friends found that when she split up with her husband that all of a sudden men that she had know for ages with absolutely no indication that they were interested in her were suddenly propositioning her. These men were school parents or the husband/partner of her friends. It's like they believed that once she didn't belong to a man she was available to anybody.

VettiyaIruken

It really is.

I was just about to say that it is comforting and reassuring (although shit) that so many women have experienced similar.

One of my friends found that when she split up with her husband that all of a sudden men that she had know for ages with absolutely no indication that they were interested in her were suddenly propositioning her. These men were school parents or the husband/partner of her friends. It's like they believed that once she didn't belong to a man she was available to anybody

Yes! This was exactly my experience too.

It is just male entitlement isn't it?

This has actually never happened to me, despite being single for years and having lots of contact with other kids dad's etc.
I do believe it happens though, and I don't think it's anything to do with looks (I can be very objective about my looks and am considered generally attractive)
I think it's to do with being Nice.
See, I dont think married men have tried it on with me because I'm not all that "nice". They probably see me as a bit of a loudmouth, the type to make a scene, tell their wife (or point and laugh at them)..
I'm not saying I'm not polite, or chatty, just that I'm probably seen as a bit of a loose cannon and they might not get away with it.
I definitely don't think you need to only ever hang out with women and have nothing to do with men, as suggested. Just because some men can't behave doesn't mean we all have to live as though we are in Saudi Arabia!
Don't know what to suggest other than be less nice!

I wouldn't go on a holiday with a guy who had said he had the hots/was in love with me!

I wouldn't go on holiday alone with a married man, however long he and I had been friends! I was thinking more where our two families were going together, or a mixed group of friends were going.

Why should I or my children miss out? I generally avoid being on my own with them after such a declaration/move has been made but, sometimes, it's not possible to avoid without raising questions. Sometimes, when we've previously been really ose friends, I've just tried to forget about it and sometimes I've thought that a "and what exactly do you think your wife would say about that?" or, "fuck off, no chance!" would be an end to it.

There have been so many times when I've looked around a group of women who are saying how lucky they are that their husbands are faithful etc and I'm looking at them thinking "well yours, yours, yours and yours have all hit on me in the last 6 months..."

I'm not suggesting she never hang out with men, the OP states she prefers men friends and often meets new men friends, and I'm suggesting that's fraught with problems.

Going round for dinner to a couple, or meeting up with the kids to the playpark with a dad is normal activity- I wouldn't however, suggest to a new male friend I met in the pub we go to the cinema. Too much room for misinterpretation.

The OP can carry on doing what she's doing, though, but then she'll get what she's always got. She isn't going to change this bad behaviour of some men as it's really endemic!

I tend to make female only friends. For me it was not so much the issue of attached men making a pass but rather any male friends never wanted to be just friends (worked this out at uni) and so to make life easier I just focused on female friends. A bit older now and so probably less of an issue now days!

Since i divorced, exactly the same has happened to me. Last one at the weekend. Old school friend, moving back to the UK, met for a quick breakfast and boom, all these years of apparant longing. I mean really WTAF.

Told him to sort himself out and bloody nice to his very long suffering wife.

Mt best friend, when i called her, said why do they think they can say this shit to you. Is it because you are divorced?

The twit then embarrassed himself with messages. Which i ignored.

See, I dont think married men have tried it on with me because I'm not all that "nice". They probably see me as a bit of a loudmouth, the type to make a scene, tell their wife (or point and laugh at them)..

I'd also say I'm a bit like that.

I know there are men who perceive me to he vulnerable but I'm also more than capable of holding my own with the men. Im definitely one of the 'blokes' when we go out and not a simpering girl they all fawn over. It just doesn't seem to make a difference.

I don't think I'm particularly nice. I think I'm perceoved that way maybe. Plenty have people have seemed surprised over the years when ive stuck up for myself...

I definitely don't think you need to only ever hang out with women and have nothing to do with men, as suggested

Good!

Sounds like you have been given plenty of opportunities for these men to hit on you, probably because you are non threatening in their wives eyes. And lets face it, opportunity is pretty much all it takes if that's their mindset. Like men who rape and sexually assault, they just had an opportunity, doesn't matter what you did or wore or look like. Sad for everyone really.

@DBML

In my experience men like this are often intimidated by beauty and attracted by vulnerability.

You may not be doing anything particularly, other than appealing to their ‘knight in shining armour’ complex - especially as you are, as you say ‘perpetually single’.

So I don’t think this is a looks or behaviour thing...it’s an opportunist thing on the mans behalf and they clearly think that because you are single, you might be so desperate as to give them the time of day.

My advice, try not to be the third wheel in a couple friendship and instead take opportunities to meet independently with the woman. Shopping trips, out for a jog whatever it may be. (That is of course assuming you weren’t originally friends with the fella as I wouldn’t want to advocate that women cannot be friends with men).

So I don’t think this is a looks or behaviour thing...it’s an opportunist thing on the mans behalf and they clearly think that because you are single, you might be so desperate as to give them the time of day.

Sadly, there might be some truth to this. If the OP is 'really ordinary' like she says, the wives probably don't think she's a threat and are quite happy to see their husband do things alone with here.......whilst the husbands are probably thinking 'Great! My wife will never suspect!'.

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

Sounds like you have been given plenty of opportunities for these men to hit on you, probably because you are non threatening in their wives eyes. And lets face it, opportunity is pretty much all it takes if that's their mindset. Like men who rape and sexually assault, they just had an opportunity, doesn't matter what you did or wore or look like. Sad for everyone really.

Stop making women responsible for men’s behaviour. That’s disgusting and as for Sad for everyone really., no it’s not! It’s only sad for the women who are innocent victims of bad men. Sleazy men are never the responsibility of their victims.

Going round for dinner to a couple, or meeting up with the kids to the playpark with a dad is normal activity- I wouldn't however, suggest to a new male friend I met in the pub we go to the cinema.

Exactly.

'Normal activity' and 'neither would I'. But it still happens during the normal activities and I wouldn't do the other.

I'm not naive. The only time I've been to the cinema, for example, with a married man, his wife suggested it and offered to have my daughter over for a sleep over to facilitate it. He was one who tried it on.

And it sounds a bit arrogant to say "nice idea but no thanks. I'm a bit worried your husband might hit on me!" when their wife has suggested it.

@IslandbreezeNZ

I tend to make female only friends. For me it was not so much the issue of attached men making a pass but rather any male friends never wanted to be just friends (worked this out at uni) and so to make life easier I just focused on female friends. A bit older now and so probably less of an issue now days!

In my experience, men are more likely to think of women only in reproductive or familial terms - if you aren't related to them or an object of sexual or romantic interest, then they simply don't see the point or value in spending time with you.

If they want friends, they have their guy friends for that. Usually, but not always, if they maintain a friendship with a woman it's because they're secretly hoping that it will pay off in some way one day, be it casual sex or a relationship. I am very ready to be proven wrong though, but that's just my observation so far.

It doesn't have to end badly.
I do like women's company because I work in an all men place. It is so nice to get away from chat about football and consider other topics.
Women seem to like to talk to me because I do not start the school, food, tv soaps stuff.

If the wife can be prised away from her husband I hear another view on life.

Never a bad outcome, my wife totally accepting.
Guess what I miss most about lockdown!

Why don’t you go out with your women friends and not their husbands. That’s strange to do that anyway if your single ? Then go on dates with men who are single. I hardly ever see my friends partners I don’t need to I’m friends with their wives not them

I hope I’m not accused of victim blaming, as I’m definitely not referring to the OP here, but a single friend of mine (in her 40s now) definitely changes the way she speaks and acts when there are men present, particularly the husbands of her friends. She really ramps up the sexual content of what she’s talking about (explicitly often, speaking of anal, tea bagging etc), and addresses the entire conversation to the men.

I know for a fact that if I were to point it out she would say that I was being over the top or no fun as it’s only ‘banter’.

She has often then complained of men becoming flirty. But doesn’t recognise her part in the inappropriate behaviour. She also does very little to clearly put out signals of zero interest and shut down approaches, and has in the past ended up in hotel rooms with married men to ‘look at something’ and then wonders why they thought she was interested in more.

Skyla2005

She’s friends with the husbands too, they’re not just her friends’ partners.

Op, I totally get you on this. Now that I am married and 50 it does not happen but when I was younger and single it happened a lot. I certainly was not in any way flirty, nor a stunner (but probably considered attractive back then).

I had a friends husband make a pass at me when she went to the loo, I honestly didn't give him any reason to do that at all. Another friends husband came on strong. I think there were a fair few incidents. I genuinely am not a flirty person, do not fancy loads of blokes or go out in my youth to meet men, have not had loads of relationships and wouldn't consider myself in anyway a "catch". But I got the distinct impression that because I was single I would be a convenient bit of the side. Depressing isn't it?

Why are there so many comments questioning the OP's behaviour and making assumptions about her?
My own experience was following divorce every single one of my friends DH's tried it on. Not pleasant since I has escaped DV and I really needed their wives support.
My conclusion is they were punishing me for demonstrating to their wives that it was possible to sack them.

It is depressing. My observation is that a lot of middle- aged men are a lot more sexual than i ever imagined. Dating after a long marriage has been a real eye opener. We had, as many of our friend's marriages had, become rather comfortable. I was completely shocked by how sexually incontinent middle aged men truly are.

Sadly, there might be some truth to this. If the OP is 'really ordinary' like she says, the wives probably don't think she's a threat and are quite happy to see their husband do things alone with here.......whilst the husbands are probably thinking 'Great! My wife will never suspect!'.

that's a bit sad really, isn't it?

I can think of a couple of men where this would make a lot of sense.

OP, you may be less likely to experience this if you associate with couples who have full and meaningful lives. The husband is more likely to be busy with a business, hobbies and a social life including those of his wife and children. In that situation I think it is less likely they will have any inclination to see you in that particular light. Husbands who do not fulfil their lives create idle hands for the devil inside them.