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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Domestic Abuse - Why Do Women Put Up With It?

405 replies

Guides009 · 16/08/2020 16:10

I don't usually read the Mirror, this story of a mother of 8, has really made me upset.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mum-eight-beaten-death-paving-22504713?utm_source=mirror_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=EM_Mirror_Nletter_DailyNews_News_smallteaser_Image_Story&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter&ccid=397482

OP posts:
DianasLasso · 17/08/2020 07:11

So how about it @Guides009 - do you have a better understanding now of why women don't "just leave"?

It would be nice if you could come back and at least acknowledge the time, effort and accounts of personal pain women have put into explaining why your OP was so wrong.

user1471462428 · 17/08/2020 07:24

Sick of these “I’m trying to understand” faux stupid posts which are just designed to victim blame. This one and the why did they have so many children should be deleted by mmhq. It sells itself as a supportive website but it’s nothing than a puppet show for MRA’s.
Fucking use your brain and imagine why a victim doesn’t leave.

Fightingback16 · 17/08/2020 08:29

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to ask questions. From the outside I can imagine it looks very hard to understand. It’s difficult to imagine just how complex it is.

Fightingback16 · 17/08/2020 08:33

It’s the “put up with it part” that’s a bit insulting!

IheartJKR · 17/08/2020 08:36

@user1471462428

Sick of these “I’m trying to understand” faux stupid posts which are just designed to victim blame. This one and the why did they have so many children should be deleted by mmhq. It sells itself as a supportive website but it’s nothing than a puppet show for MRA’s. Fucking use your brain and imagine why a victim doesn’t leave.
Totally agree.
minnieok · 17/08/2020 08:44

I think it's a legitimate question, equally why do men abuse women (or same sex partners).

I don't understand how it gets to the point where women have put up with abuse for years, even decades but I have not been there. I wonder if the women had abusive childhoods so know no different? I dont think it's victim blaming to legitimately ask why do people stay in violent relationships, we are aware it's very complex, but in the U.K. at least there's support for those escaping domestic abuse, I know this isn't the case everywhere.

ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble · 17/08/2020 08:48

@minnieok

I think it's a legitimate question, equally why do men abuse women (or same sex partners).

I don't understand how it gets to the point where women have put up with abuse for years, even decades but I have not been there. I wonder if the women had abusive childhoods so know no different? I dont think it's victim blaming to legitimately ask why do people stay in violent relationships, we are aware it's very complex, but in the U.K. at least there's support for those escaping domestic abuse, I know this isn't the case everywhere.

There have been plenty of answers to the questions. Have you read them?

Do you still "not understand "?

Fatted · 17/08/2020 08:51

If you read the story, it actually states that they were in the process of ending the relationship. This is actually the most dangerous time for a victim of DV. As is clearly demonstrated here.

Fightingback16 · 17/08/2020 09:02

It’s a very unconscious thing. I ask myself the same question, why on Earth did I stay with hindsight and my conscious mind. Unfortunately what happens when abused is the unconscious primitive survival mind takes over. It gets wired for survival to stay with the abuser. All lot of what happens is out of our hands.

namechange12a · 17/08/2020 09:21

As others have pointed out, she didn't stay. Even with 8 children she left. He had been in prison for assault - so she wasn't just putting up with it was she.

I didn't wonder why she stayed when I read the article, I wondered why he was let out of prison and why she wasn't better protected from him. They were living together even though they'd split up. She was calling the police, yet again, because he was drunk, loud and aggressive. She could obviously see where it was going as the police had been called out many times over their 18 year relationship.

My thoughts were: if the police had been called out that many times, where were social services? Why were the children living with an abuser with a record? Who was supporting her to leave? She'd obviously tried over the years to leave but kept taking him back. Why had he been let out of jail and allowed to move back in with her?

She had eight children, it wouldn't have been easy for her to leave him.

It doesn't sound as though she had support because she would have been advised to exit the relationship carefully, not continue to live with him. She severely underestimated the risk she was under, even though he'd been jailed for assault. The most dangerous time for a woman is when leaving and the police had been called out over 100 times to their address. Who was looking out for those children, six of which were under 12, who then witnessed their mother being butchered with a paving slab?

This is a failure of the state to protect her and those traumatised children who have spent their lives as witnesses to domestic abuse.

Whatevesok · 17/08/2020 09:24

This is awful. Are you blaming her for staying and therfore dying?

freeingNora · 17/08/2020 09:39

I stayed for 22 years I was so badly abused that I ended up with Stockholm syndrome and ptsd the worst thing is he beat me once and so I said I'd leave him if he ever did it again. So he never hit again until the end when he tried to kill us but the emotional and psychological abuse was so much worse then any physical abuse

It took 3 1/2 years to get out but I'm still being controlled, I could still lose my children I walk a very fine line everyday

Raising children by yourself with no support while healing yourself and working hard not to be triggered when your child mimics abusive behaviours and languages is terrifically difficult

So no I couldn't just leave if I hadn't read that gift of fear book my children and I would be dead now but of course no one believes me because he seems like such a nice man

C8H10N4O2 · 17/08/2020 09:45

Sick of these “I’m trying to understand” faux stupid posts which are just designed to victim blame

^This.

The actual questions are:

  • why are men so violent?
  • why don't "good" men do more to stop the violence?

Sort those out OP, stop victim blaming.

LilyWater · 17/08/2020 10:15

@PortugalPlace

I was in an abusive relationship. It was a tick box of an abusive relationship. It was utterly horrific but what I didn't do is bring children into the equation and have kids with him. I'll be flamed for daring to say you need to take responsibility but you do. You don't bring children into an already abusive situation or then go on and have more or/and bring in children from a previous relationship. My sympathy is lost at that point. Yes I'll be flamed, of course because somehow women don't have any responsibility. If you are an adult you don't expose kids to this.
Agree with this sadly. I completely understand situations where there are unexpected pregnancies or rape. But to willfully bring a child/children in an already abusive relationship is another matter. Of course sole responsibility for the abuse itself always lies with the abuser. But a child is not an adult, has no agency at all, no possibility of escape, and is just forced to endure their choice of partner and their choice not to leave (if living in a country where this choice exists). These very children often then go on to become abusers themselves or be abused, due to their role models, and thus the cycle of abuse continues Sad

As a society we need to do so much more to increase the self-esteem and uphold the dignity of women and more strongly encourage/equip girls and women to spot the first signs of controlling and abusive behaviours so they can avoid such men in the first place or get out the heck out as soon as possible. While abuse often escalates over time, there are often warning signs/indications of controlling behaviors early on which are often ignored. Unfortunately we have a society which is built on objectifying women, and a rabid porn industry which has helped normalise and establish violence, the subjection of women in relation to men, and sexualisation of women as objects. Yet many people (including many women themselves) are fine with this, or at least convince themselves they're 'cool' with it, so unfortunately don't see all these entrenched attitudes changing anytime soon.

Fightingback16 · 17/08/2020 10:18

This....
“ Raising children by yourself with no support while healing yourself and working hard not to be triggered when your child mimics abusive behaviours and languages is terrifically difficult”

This makes us warriors and those that are doing this should be very VERY proud!

BertieBotts · 17/08/2020 10:34

in the U.K. at least there's support for those escaping domestic abuse, I know this isn't the case everywhere.

If you care about this please don't get complacent about this. Our refuges and DA charities are struggling due to budget/funding cuts over the past few years.

ollyandstacey · 17/08/2020 11:51

Charities are run by well-meaning amateurs who haven't got a clue. State employees just say they haven't got the resources. If you call that support, then you are wrong.

MrsBobDylan · 17/08/2020 12:09

As pointed out by pp, it is horrific that the children weren't removed. Their whole lives spent in terror and now seeing their mother beaten to death, something which will traumatise them for the rest of their lives.

As someone who grew up with DV, I would say there is often an element of co-dependency in these types of relationships. It is grotesque but the drama and attention that violence brings is sometimes the thing that bind a victim and abuser together. It is such a madly complicated area.

I wish SS would remove more children in these situations.

Survivethestorm · 17/08/2020 12:50

I wouldn't say I put up with dv, I suffered and endured dv for many reasons. Over time exp got so into my head that it was almost as if I couldn't think for myself, I had low self esteem, I feared he'd hurt myself or our dd if I left, he threatened to kill me if I did leave and make dd an orphan.

In the end he started abusing dd anyway and that was it I got out straight away. He gets to have contact with her now, court ordered, has been abusive towards dd during that so for some woman it's also they feel it's safer for the kids if they just stay. I sometimes think the same that if I had just stayed I could better protect dd.

BunniesLoveBananas · 17/08/2020 13:08

There is not always a clear reason.

I have a friend I believe is in an emotionally abusive relationship. She is an intelligent professional woman and they don't have any children but she doesn't seem like she will leave him.

She used to tell me about their arguments and it sounds like he'd break things but I don't know that he was every physically violent towards her. She has seemed very down with it at times but sometimes they seem perfectly happy.

I don't know why she stays. I don't believe
she has low self esteem. She previously told me she doesn't want to leave as she can't imagine life without him and she loves him.

I also find the question slightly offensive. Aside from the fact that the women are not the ones with the problem, it also implies that it is so easy to walk away from someone you believe you love but it is so much easier to say than it is to do.

PicsInRed · 17/08/2020 13:16

SS only threaten to remove the children if she stays. The moment she leaves THEY RECOMMEND HE HAS THE CHILDREN UNSUPERVISED.

An abusive man's most potent and terrifying threat is "if you leave I'll take the kids, you're crazy so they'll give me full custody". And the family court HEAR HIM OUT and some women DO LOSE THE KIDS.

That is why women stay. Period. The end.

Change that, and women will leave.

plantlife · 17/08/2020 13:16

@BertieBotts

in the U.K. at least there's support for those escaping domestic abuse, I know this isn't the case everywhere.

If you care about this please don't get complacent about this. Our refuges and DA charities are struggling due to budget/funding cuts over the past few years.

This is why this thread shouldn't be deleted. Lots of people don't care at all but some do - but they think we have good support in the UK. We don't. Or at least it's a postcode lottery. There is no nation standard or level of support.

The only chance of things changing is to acknowledge this. Otherwise nothing will ever get better because officially there's 'support'. To add to the distress of those of us in areas with poor support, we're frequently not believed when we try to tell someone (not to cause trouble or to complain but when desperately begging for alternative help).

I got to the point where trying to get support has almost broken me as much as the abuse (and that includes quite a lot of violence). It's so hard to ask for help. To end up begging for it - and still not getting it, is devastating.

The very worse is when it's officially on paper 'support' but in reality nothing.
I truly believe one essential thing needed, as well as national standards, is some form of mystery shopping done on services by some kind of regulatory body.

Here's a few examples of what happened when I tried to get help. I must say though that in desperation at very bad points I'm called placesd out of my area. They can't give me ongoing support but, unlike my local services, they answered my immediate questions when I was so frightened and in despair. Their kindness humbled me especially as they're all so inundated.

Fightingback16 · 17/08/2020 13:27

Social services where keeping watch of my case but were happy that I had left and kept my daughter safe. Then wantes me to arrange contact for my daughter and her father....wtf.

allfalldown47 · 17/08/2020 13:33

Your question isn't even worthy of an answer.

Here's mine to you, 'why are some men so evil, nasty and violent?
I have a feeling you won't be returning to this thread though....

plantlife · 17/08/2020 13:45

Sorry I forgot to add examples.

A few years ago the violence was escalating. A neighbour got involved, confronted him, and told us they were calling the police. I was terrified. I walked into my local DV one stop shop. It took so much to do that. I'd tried a few weeks earlier but couldn't bring myself to go inside. The woman who saw me made it clear she didn't want to help. She told me she didn't know about the police and to just call them. I was asking for support in dealing with them. I didn't want the police. I was so scared. She didn't do a risk assessment or offer a support worker.
I was persuaded to go back there by a helpline. This time she asked why I'd come back as she'd already spoken to me. I asked for a support worker. She huffed and puffed then told me to call the office next week. Turns out she was the support worker. She offered no support. Told me they didn't help with housing (I'd been told support workers advocate for you). I spoke to the charity in total about 6 hours (over weeks and weeks). I was then told I'd taken hours of their time and they couldn't offer anything more. During the period we were in contact I'd begged for a refuge. Was told they couldn't give me somewhere just in case something happened. Something already had happened many times. They also told me other women managed to get there with terrible injuries when I explained I had no money at all to get there. They made me feel like a fraud but also very very trapped with a violent abusive man and very alone.

Recently tried to do it myself. Approached councils for help due to dv. The ones who are upfront about being unwilling to help are better really than the ones who trick you and waste your time. You only get so many opportunities to call or leave and can't waste time. The pretend nice ones initially make you think they'll help. Eventually you realise a couple of weeks after approaching them you've been passed from one person to the next and nothing actually hapoens. They put up barriers. The one last week refuses to do anything unless I consent to police being contacted. There's no police evidence because they never saw anything. No crime reference. He was released without charge and now the police think it was me being 'mental'.

So I risk police arresting him on a report by the council (they've said they can't promise not to report it if serious concerns) but nowhere safe to go. There's no evidence so he'd be arrested, furious, more dangerous, but the council would refuse to help me because the police have no evidence. He did a no comment interview last time.

Last week I also contacted adult social services. The local DV services had repeatedly advised me to do this. Apparent the dv service couldn't offer the help I needed but social services would. Social services not only told me it was a DV charity I needed but they were horrible too. It shook me. It was a man and he refused to let me speak to a woman instead. He them asked why I needed support. Told me if I was physically capable of calljnytgr police, why did I need support. No understanding at all of how dangerous it will be after he's released and also how much a traumatised person needs emotional and practical support especially with disabilities.

Tried to speak to GP. Lovely and kind but there's only so much she can do. Listen when it's an appointment but nothing more. She referred me to someone who is also very nice but only able to give me phone numbers to call. Places I've already tried.

I was so scared to tell my GP for so long. Always spoke anonymously to dv services. Finally ask properly for help and it's basically a case of if you live in an area with pour support, tough.

I've had several experiences like this. It wears you down. I feel defeated. I can't keep trying.

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