Husband secretly recorded me - advice needed

[Thisisme34]

Hi all. Long term poster, name changed.

Today I returned home following visiting my family for the first time in many months. DH lent me his iPod to listen to music on the way (flight) and I did it on the way back. I've randomly discovered that he recorded several arguments between us, all of which are saved on his iPod. I am in a state of shock. The recordings were made without my knowledge or consent.

In one of the recordings, DH was goading me to get me to say things I have never done, such as that I was violent towards him. I've never been violent towards him. I thought at the time this was odd but I was so upset and desperate in our argument that I didn't notice I was being recorded. I've never admitted anything cause there is no truth in it.

I come from a verbally and at timed physically abusive family (my father), full of what now would fall under coercive control. I'm 34 now and all my life I've lived with a chip on my shoulder as a result and admittedly I get over the top and desperate in arguments like my mum. I had no good example at home. However, I have picked up on it and have had counselling. I am no longer in touch with my abusive father which has been a major relief. I have worked extremely hard on myself and will have to do so probably for the rest of my life.

DH is, what I thought, a kind, non-confrontational person. He knows my past and never in a million years have I thought he'd use it against me. I hoped he would support me in overcoming my demons and that we'd have a good, loving marriage that I always dreamt of.

In the same time, DH is a liar. He lied to me immediately before and after our wedding 5 years ago about certain important things in relation to his family (re MIL who turned out to be a vile person but he was covering her actions). He lied to me about the fact he was in significant debt of several thousand pounds of which I had no knowledge. I knew he had 2-3k debt when we first got together which he wasn't paying off and it was accrued stupidly, on random unnecessary things. At the time we were both on not great money as we were studying to get further qualifications so that amount of debt wasn't worrying but he wasn't paying it off as he's not good with money. Therefore, I sat down with him and worked out how to pay it off. He promised me he would do it and I married him thinking there was no longer any debt and we'd be able to start saving up for a deposit for our house, a fresh start. 3 weeks after the wedding I randomly discovered his debt was 9k. That was a huge set back for us at the time and I was devastated. Admittedly, I slapped him then - once and only once in my life. It wasn't the right thing to do, but I was at the rock bottom once I realised another major breach of trust on his part. I felt terrible and apologised to him and never ever done it since.

I then forgave him and worked out how to pay it off. We paid it off. Saved up for a house, advanced our qualifications. We now have a beautiful home, good jobs, pets, trying for a baby, I sadly had several miscarriages which affected my MH greatly. But I got through this.

As far as I was concerned, our relationship was better than ever and he never breached my trust again. Until today.

I feel that he was trying to gather evidence against me which for some reason he has held on to for over 2 years. The arguments he recorded took place in 2018. He has since sold the phone on which the recordings were made, having reset it before, he says. However, as I said, the recordings are saved on his cloud and his iPod and for whatever reason, they are still there.

I confronted him tonight and he was shocked. He first said he never recorded me. Then finally admitted he did but "only twice", he "never shown it to anyone". He said he recorded me because he wanted to "relisten to it" but he never did. He also doesn't know how they were copied into his iPod, supposedly this wasn't done on purpose.

To present the full story, the arguments we have had were usually about DH being lazy around the house and not noticing things need to be done or not finishing them. He tends to be too laid back whereas I am a hard worker and I felt a huge share of responsibilities were falling on me whereas he wasn't doing much which I found difficult and upsetting as I hoped for an equal partnership. So probably not unusual arguments, however they were heated at times as I was repeating myself and asking him to change his attitude over and over again and sometimes I just had enough. To be fair about this, he has improved in that regard particularly in the last 1.5 years and we've barely ever argued. It was never heated either, since I've been very mindful following my counselling not to repeat my parents' mistakes.

I am devastated. This is like a blow straight into my heart. I thought this man would help me work through my worries and yet he completely turned against me, goaded me to say things that never happened. This isn't what a loving partner does. I feel this was done in bad faith to use it against me at some point, but he denies this.

I am shocked and broken. Is this the end? What do I do now? Do I get divorced at 34, in the pandemic, risk never having children which was my lifetime dream?

Have I been living a lie for 7 years?

That's awful, I'm so sorry

He just keeps showing you dishonest and manipulative sides.

I actually think it's very sinister and cowardly to act shittily towards someone, abusive essentially and then set them up/goad them.sbd record it fir future use against them.

On top of all the lying about debt (and being irresponsible with money in the first place) .. and you having to nag and push just to get him to pull his weight at home.

Sounds to me like 2 years go your marriage was in a shit place and you apparently argued in ways that are destructive, or else you would not have felt the need to work on it and have counselling.

So back then he recorded you, then you worked on yourself and things improved and he didn't record anything any more and probably forgot about it (or he wouldn't have lent you the ipod).

Looks like you have 2 choices: Either you see it as past issues that you both overcame and you let it go, or you don't forgive him this misstep, in which case you can't expect him to forgive you for the slapping...

(On that note: if my partner ever slapped me for whatever reason, I'd be a goner.)

I don't support slapping anyone and I wouldn't do that again. Where I'm from, my mum was slapped by my nan regularly if she was mouthy, I was regularly smacked with a belt over my buttocks as a child and even my mum who is the gentlest person I know slapped me once when I was a teenager. A slap in my culture was seen as showing someone just how much they've overstepped the mark and disrespected you. I still to this day remember why my mum did that and I was never rude to her again and it never made me love her less. This was a form of discipline. Now, I understand that being physical isn't the way to go and that's why I won't do that again.

I am saying what was considered "normal" in my culture when I was growing up. It never occurred to me that cultural context could be relevant. Ultimately, I live here and identify myself with the way people operate here. I find the Brits are generally far more distant and mindful of their personal space and barely touching each other. There is also a very, very different attitude to physical punishment towards children to the attitude I was brought up in.

The above however was very different to abuse that my father has put my mum, my nan and myself through, it was 20+ years of hell, swearing, pushing to the ground, telling you just how shit you are, hiding treats from us, financial control and not contributing enough money for us to eat, forcing my mum to pay for everything for me, cheating on her, constant neverending arguments and making me choose whether I want to support mummy or daddy, disrespecting me after I was nearly raped as a teenager, he just laughed it off and I had PTSD. The list goes on, it would take me a long time to describe 21 years of hell.
On the outside, the funniest guy you could imagine, educated, rich and with a beautiful family. I will never forgive him for what he did to all of us. I am shocked my mum hasn't turned into Sally Challen, yet.

Perhaps back then he was waiting for his debt to be payed off then leave and use the recording as evidence. Perhaps he has now changed his mind.

OP sounds like you spent a lot of time, energy and reflection into therapy and self development - be very proud of recognising the lingering effects of an abusive childhood and rising above it.

I think with your background and upbringing it is unwise to stay in a relationship that is so tainted with lies, trust your gut - he doesn't sound trustworthy.

Please trust me in saying how young you are - starting again does not necessarily equal not having children.

i agree that its extremely abusive to record telephone calls but im surprised at the reaction to recording a conversation where violence was admitted..although maybe it depends on the level of violence. I recorded a partner admitting to being very violent to me AND i steered the conversation round to the subject so he would speak about it. I did it because he had lied about the incident and told people the violence went both ways which it did not..a particularly bad attack was unprovoked without any preceeding argument even. I recorded him because i was worried that he'd tell further lies..its not uncommon for abusers to lie and claim victim was actually the perpetrator. I was frightened and alone and my recording gave me a feeling of security that if he lied i could at least prove id done nothing wrong...if he'd sued me for taping him without his knowledge to me it would be worth it...better that than being accused of a crime when you're actually the victim of one.

So i'm new to this.

After moving in with my girlfriend I started to notice some strange behavioural patterns leading up to the birth of our 1st child granted I probably was going out one too many Fridays but I knew my life was about to change massively we hadn't planned our first child and everything happened extremely quickly . When my son was born I remember going to her mums and she carried my child around the room and was saying 'my baby' 'your baby' as she went around the room I always thought it was a bit odd . I noticed her mum turned up one Saturday for no apparent reason and I worked out she was only there to check if id been out the night before which had alarm bells ringing in my head! Gradually over the coming months her parents came more into the fold and I felt from the off like a spare part she seemed more focused on pleasing her mum and dad then paying any attention to me an example being when my son was born I was off work for 30 days and her mum pretty much found an excuse to come round every day! When my son was about 3months old I started to go out on a Friday again no regularity maybe once every 3 weeks however I noticed she would be off with me for days before leading up to the Friday I was going out and then the whole weekend after. This was annoying I was being made to feel a bad parent , during this time I was working 5 days a week and would wake up every night at 3am for half an hour to give my son some milk I did this for 7 months. Her mum turned up one day and said the grass needed cutting I was baffled but also concerned. As time went on my one night out a month became a bigger and bigger problem she began to argue with me whilst I was out often the result being I stayed out later. Then one Friday I was out her mum phoned her to check if I was out ! Red flag I thought wtf im 35 years old . I told my girlfriend that I didn't feel like a proper dad because her parents were really overbearing she said they have no one else so I accepted that. Her dad had his cars in my back garage at first I thought fine didn't think anything but as time passed I realised this was a control measure. Things then took a huge turn when I went out to watch my team win the champions league my daughter was 16 days old perhaps not a great decision however was home by 8 no big deal really in the grand scheme . Her mum and dad came round said' how do you expect her to put 2 children to sleep' I explained I wasn't home late her mum said it was unacceptable to her. I told my girlfriend from the start me going out isn't anything against her I just have a large social circle or enjoy a social drink. Things weren't great she was isolating the Friday night out and labelling me a bad dad I thought it was unfair I was never hungover and always could still function. I cut the night out right down after my daughter was born I thought things would change they've become worse. Her mum and dad came round again around Christmas time and her mum had the cheek to tell me that I might need to go home to sort myself out again I was baffled my jaw dropped I kept quiet because I was too angry. I explained to my girlfriend that the mortgage was in her name and id paid her 1000 a month for over 2 years I asked why my name wasn't on the mortgage she said when we move the equity from this one would go into the next. After her mum came around and had her menopausal outburst I couldn't accept how she had spoken to me and the level of disrespect so I removed myself from their family whatts app group she said I was manipulating and I thought hang on a minute here . In a nutshell I have 2 children with my girlfriend and I do love her but her parents are ruining our relationship I don't know what to do the other day she threatened me that if I ever left I wouldn't see my children ! she has used this card a number of times which I find extremely horrible and puts doubts in my mind. During the lockdown I noticed how attached her parents were they are both lonely children and her mum has always seemed a bit off key. Ive always explained to her that I didnt move in with her to join her family I did it to start my own family. Her mum and dad invited themselves to centre parcs for a visit day last year which again was off putting. I told my mrs how I felt from the start she said she would never limit the amount of times they can come see the kids and she would be the same if it was my parents which is a load of b. they have to see my kids every 3 days for example if I take them on a sat and sunday to see my side of the family 1million percent they will be at mine on the Monday. During the lockdown we got close again was nice but even then her dad was in my back garage all the time and her mum would come in the back garden all the time to see the kids both blatantly breaking the lockdown rules. things got better for a while I stayed home for 4 months once the pubs opened naturally I wanted to catch up with friends the old patterns of texting abuse whilst I was out began again I was really shocked now I thought those days had gone. I don't know if she realises how she made me feel like a spare part ive told her numerous times to limit the amount of times her parents come round as I had to in the end otherwise I was gonna leave but how could I explain that to my kids in 10 years ? she doesn't put my feelings first ever ive been made to feel used and im really low now as I cant see a way out I know her family are gonna do all they can to write me out of my kids life and I cant go from this to seeing them every 2 weeks but im starting to hate my girlfriend because she cant say no to her parents and I thought me going out every couple weeks at this stage after 2 children she would be a bit more cool about. It almost like she hates me for giving her kids or like she cant handle being a mum maybe that's why she gravitated towards her mum because she was out of her deoth. I always told her to talk and open up to me even before our first child and to this day I still feel like she hasn't and the re emergence of her controlling behaviour is deeply concerning I cant live all my life like this does sometimes feel forced and arranged but our children are so so special and I want it to work for her. The day her parents came around her mum wanted me gone they said horrible things and they wanted to plant seeds which I couldn't overcome. In my head I looked at her mum and thought you want my kids wow because I know if id left she would have been back with her mum within weeks. I also thought i pay 1000 a month and i cant live how i want to i cant even make a phone call without her eavesdropping don't feel like i can call my mates round . Around the time when i was going out she regularly went down my phone and even bank statements shes also viewed my internet searches in the past . Am i one massive mug here HELP

Just read about his recording of your phone call in your native language.
I still can't see what is so upsetting about that. He was annoyed by you being loud on the phone, recorded it - presumably to show you, how loud/aggressive it sounds - then, probably after speaking to you afterwards, realized this was not some aggressive quarrel but a vivid convo with the friend having trouble listening due to background noise. He felt silly, let it go, forgot the whole thing...

Not trying to be wilfully obtuse, but I don't see the problem. I mean, he obviously is planning to have a family with you, not trying to find reasons to leave you. If it were some great master plan to collect 'evidence' against you, he sure as hell wouldn't have given OP his ipod.

If there are other issues, ok, but these recordings on their own in my view really don't mean much (except that he was annoyed with you in the moment and then... let it go. Which happens in the best relationships).

Am I missing something?

I told my girlfriend from the start me going out isn't anything against her I just have a large social circle or enjoy a social drink...

Well, Robbie, no offence, but you sound like the type of guy to whom it never occurred that you have equal responsibility in raising your children as your partner. She might also enjoy a social drink with her social circle but, unfortunately, babies don't feed themselves and all...

almost like she hates me for giving her kids or like she cant handle being a mum maybe that's why she gravitated towards her mum because she was out of her deoth.

Maybe she resents you breezing through life certain that she will take up the slack (remember: babies don't feed themselves...), and her Mum is the only person she can rely on to share the burden.

If you've never been out of your depth caring for your kids that's a good indication you've never taken on your role as a care giver.

@Deepwatersolo he said that too, he said why on earth would I give you my iPod had I remembered these recordings and known they were there?

I am torn because I've known him for a long time and there are many, many good traits about him. We don't always agree on everything but I believe deep down that he is a kind man, although he doesn't know how to deal with difficult situations and conflict and then instead of being open and honest he gets muddled up and loses his way, doing silly things. Does this make him a bad man - I don't think so. I am upset about what he did when he recorded me without consent full stop, it's a breach of privacy. Upset he never disclosed he made them and then it got out of his control where they are, it turns out they're on the iPod, cloud, hard drive and a broken down laptop as he was mindlessly transferring all files, music, audio, photos etc. He isn't attentive to detail so this is likely true. But he should have deleted them and come clean. I just feel like this is another breach of trust, why can't he just be honest about things. They become a lot worse if kept secret. Honesty is all I asked him for.

Robbie - I see you're new, I think you'd benefit from creating your own thread not posting on mine, you'll likely get more accurate responses.

@Wondersense yes, I agree with you. Jobs that have authority, and ability to impose sanctions can sometimes attract damaged individuals who abuse the authority,misuse sanctions to assert their own agenda.

Yeah, OP, I get being annoyed about the disorganization (he has lost track of where the recordings ended up, forgot them...).

In my relationship I am the less organized one, and this is sure a point of contention between me and my (very organized and way less spontaneous) partner. This was an issue from the start and it never went away. We're still together 20 years on, it is not a deal breaker for us, but yes, you have to decide whether you can live with that. (And with children this 'bad stuff' in a relationship will be magnified just like the strengths will be).

Also, I get that not tackling issues/mistakes head on but trying to obfuscate them or to 'sit them out' - as he did with the debt - can be a 'deal breaker'. Question is, whether he learned from that mistake - after all, you demonstrated to him that once it was out in the open it could be solved.

These are sure questions you have to decide for themselves. But that goes way deeper than the (in my opinion inconsequential) recordings.

That's spot on @deepwatersolo. I posted about the recordings because I couldn't get my head around it, it was new, happened suddenly and surprised me. But these issues you've just mentioned have always been there. I made a choice few years ago to put up with them but the way he went about these recordings made me question whether he can actually ever be open and honest about things.

He's a classic disorganised, laid back chap, my relationship is reverse to yours, but I'd like to think I no longer plan every second of my life, at least I try not to. I've accepted our strengths and weaknesses, but I can't get over the lack of transparency when it comes to difficult issues. He's nearly 40, he really can't bury his head in the sand because it's been affecting both of us. I find that selfish and it's causing me double amount of stress, actually.

He's also impossible to argue with because he mutes himself, he literally hardly speaks which is extremely frustrating. You'd ask him a question, silence. You'd ask him something, he'd mumble a two word response and that's it. A complete conflict avoider, but to the extent he just doesn't want to discuss anything, he doesn't know how. I could be talking to a blank wall and the effect would be the same. That's why I used to get flustered at the beginning of our relationship, I felt ignored and disrespected. When he was goading me in the recordings, it was unusual for him to be that active. That's another thing I struggle with because it's near impossible to get through to him, I find this attitude passive aggressive actually. I have no idea how to get him to communicate better, how to activate him. He seems to treasure his peace of mind over and above everything and everyone.

@billy1966 , "he drove you to slap
him ". Is that what you'd say if it had been the other way round? Are you familiar with victim blaming?

I still don't think he's been honest with your re his motive for recording you. When he recorded you and your friend, isn't it more likely he did it to then look up what you'd been saying? I find it really difficult to believe he did it because he wanted to show you how loud your were then immediately forgot to have the conversation with you once you hung up. It doesn't add up.
He's still lying IMO.
He's probably been recording you for a very long time.
What's his search history like?

I do believe the loud phonecall excuse. My son is very loud sometimes and so yes I can def get it. (Still would annoy me ut in itself is not a biggy, but is just one part of the puzzle.)

Why can’t you speak as loud as you want in your own house. It’s not like your shouting swear words in front of children. It’s really rather childish to record it then make you listen and embarrass you.

Perhaps it’s a cultural thing where he isn’t used to passionate talking and not just sitting and stewing on his dislikes. It does sound very passive aggressive. Sounds like he needs to learn how to air his grievances and not let it fester into resentment. Maybe he isn’t deliberately abusive but just a bit childish. Perhaps he feels that you won’t be responsive to what he says, or maybe he is afraid of upsetting you so goes about it in a round a bout way that just ends up being stupid. I think you probably need to figure out a way of talking to each other about grievances.

The showing you how loud you are excuse might have been convincing if he hadn't also recorded op (and admitted to doing it) in order to set her up to "admit" to volatility and aggression, after he shat himself about what he'd done to her.

Incidentally throwing and breaking things, chasing down, and shaking someone are all domestic violence/abuse.
And recording someone without their awareness and consent esp when you're leading them in conversation to make them.m sound a certain way (inaccurately, and to have a fake counter balance to your own abusive behaviour ( is abusive).

Isn't this a case of "grew up with/lived with/ was in a relationship with a level 9 abuser so a level 3 abuser seems good".
Problem being he's still a abuser.

He also seems like he and honesty are not good mates.
At all.

I find it really difficult to believe he did it because he wanted to show you how loud your were then immediately forgot to have the conversation with you once you hung up. It doesn't add up.

No, it doesn't.

I have no idea how to get him to communicate better, how to activate him.

Why do you always have to figure him out and "fix" him.

First his spending habits and debts, then his laziness at home, now his communication.
Aren't you getting sick of mummying/nannying him .. if you have kids you'll have an adult one too (and kids are exhausting and relentless, as lovely as they can be).

You can't fix his dishonesty btw.

Have you ever read Lundy Bancroft's "whybdues he do that".

It's mostly aimed at domestic violence but covers everything so it's still worth a read even if he isn't violent (apart from the breaking things and shaking you).

I'll try to find the online readable version.