Husband secretly recorded me - advice needed

[Thisisme34]

Hi all. Long term poster, name changed.

Today I returned home following visiting my family for the first time in many months. DH lent me his iPod to listen to music on the way (flight) and I did it on the way back. I've randomly discovered that he recorded several arguments between us, all of which are saved on his iPod. I am in a state of shock. The recordings were made without my knowledge or consent.

In one of the recordings, DH was goading me to get me to say things I have never done, such as that I was violent towards him. I've never been violent towards him. I thought at the time this was odd but I was so upset and desperate in our argument that I didn't notice I was being recorded. I've never admitted anything cause there is no truth in it.

I come from a verbally and at timed physically abusive family (my father), full of what now would fall under coercive control. I'm 34 now and all my life I've lived with a chip on my shoulder as a result and admittedly I get over the top and desperate in arguments like my mum. I had no good example at home. However, I have picked up on it and have had counselling. I am no longer in touch with my abusive father which has been a major relief. I have worked extremely hard on myself and will have to do so probably for the rest of my life.

DH is, what I thought, a kind, non-confrontational person. He knows my past and never in a million years have I thought he'd use it against me. I hoped he would support me in overcoming my demons and that we'd have a good, loving marriage that I always dreamt of.

In the same time, DH is a liar. He lied to me immediately before and after our wedding 5 years ago about certain important things in relation to his family (re MIL who turned out to be a vile person but he was covering her actions). He lied to me about the fact he was in significant debt of several thousand pounds of which I had no knowledge. I knew he had 2-3k debt when we first got together which he wasn't paying off and it was accrued stupidly, on random unnecessary things. At the time we were both on not great money as we were studying to get further qualifications so that amount of debt wasn't worrying but he wasn't paying it off as he's not good with money. Therefore, I sat down with him and worked out how to pay it off. He promised me he would do it and I married him thinking there was no longer any debt and we'd be able to start saving up for a deposit for our house, a fresh start. 3 weeks after the wedding I randomly discovered his debt was 9k. That was a huge set back for us at the time and I was devastated. Admittedly, I slapped him then - once and only once in my life. It wasn't the right thing to do, but I was at the rock bottom once I realised another major breach of trust on his part. I felt terrible and apologised to him and never ever done it since.

I then forgave him and worked out how to pay it off. We paid it off. Saved up for a house, advanced our qualifications. We now have a beautiful home, good jobs, pets, trying for a baby, I sadly had several miscarriages which affected my MH greatly. But I got through this.

As far as I was concerned, our relationship was better than ever and he never breached my trust again. Until today.

I feel that he was trying to gather evidence against me which for some reason he has held on to for over 2 years. The arguments he recorded took place in 2018. He has since sold the phone on which the recordings were made, having reset it before, he says. However, as I said, the recordings are saved on his cloud and his iPod and for whatever reason, they are still there.

I confronted him tonight and he was shocked. He first said he never recorded me. Then finally admitted he did but "only twice", he "never shown it to anyone". He said he recorded me because he wanted to "relisten to it" but he never did. He also doesn't know how they were copied into his iPod, supposedly this wasn't done on purpose.

To present the full story, the arguments we have had were usually about DH being lazy around the house and not noticing things need to be done or not finishing them. He tends to be too laid back whereas I am a hard worker and I felt a huge share of responsibilities were falling on me whereas he wasn't doing much which I found difficult and upsetting as I hoped for an equal partnership. So probably not unusual arguments, however they were heated at times as I was repeating myself and asking him to change his attitude over and over again and sometimes I just had enough. To be fair about this, he has improved in that regard particularly in the last 1.5 years and we've barely ever argued. It was never heated either, since I've been very mindful following my counselling not to repeat my parents' mistakes.

I am devastated. This is like a blow straight into my heart. I thought this man would help me work through my worries and yet he completely turned against me, goaded me to say things that never happened. This isn't what a loving partner does. I feel this was done in bad faith to use it against me at some point, but he denies this.

I am shocked and broken. Is this the end? What do I do now? Do I get divorced at 34, in the pandemic, risk never having children which was my lifetime dream?

Have I been living a lie for 7 years?

@WiltedWillows- so is kicking and goading someone when they’re down.

OP be careduful about aborting a marriage based on ‘advice’ and judgements from Mumsnet. It is your marriage and it is your future. Yes your husband made mistakes and lied but is sorry and distraught about them now having been faced with the consequences to your marriage and baby plans. Maybe this is a wake up call for him. Nobody is perfect, we are all human, and if overall, if your marriage is generally good then maybe a big conversation and fresh start is what is needed, not a divorce and moving countries and starting again at 34, esp when you want children, and esp when you say this option feels equally devastating. Mumsnet posters often suggest LTB and divorce but what about joint counselling and working on these marital issues. Yes your abusive childhood has affected you and made you worry that you are following in your mums pattern, but you seem aware of what is good and bad in your marriage and what is needed to improve. Think carefully before ending it all and remember it is your life. If last 2 years have been good then build on this and ,are your husband aware that it is last chance and fresh start if that’s what you decide. Then at least you will not look back and have regrets if life after your marriage doesn’t bring you happiness.
And no I’m not naive, I’m just more realistic than a lot of these LTB posters.

NotACoolMum, yes it was, it was a network of lies, but still I shouldn't have done that. I just don't understand some posters' need to make out that this is what I do and who I am. I owned up to it, apologised, made up for it, it was a long time ago. I really don't know what else to say. The recordings took place years later and covered arguments unrelated to it and my personal conversation with my friend.

@ThrowawayBerna

Yes you are right. In the cold light of day, these cases reflect badly on the people who pushed them forward (and so they should). Equivalence is stupid. The criminal law looks at harm, not the idea of “equality”.

@FrappuccinoLight These are very balanced and kind thoughts, thank you.

@Thisisme34 you’ve owned up to it and never done it again. We’ve all done things we’re ashamed of and MN seemed to be full of holier than thou people who look for anything to latch onto to destroy some posters credibility.

I get it- the problem is that he recorded you years later while you were under the impression that all was great. That’s why the trust is gone.
Please remember- one bad mistake does not define you- even if a few strangers on the internet are trying to say otherwise xx

Just look at those women who have lost their minds and killed there husbands because they can’t take it anymore, who is the victim then...They push you and want you to react, do you really think he was really that traumatised by your slap....I doubt it.
I no that’s not a p.c thing to say but I highly doubt he was (just to add hitting is not right, we all know that). Recording you arguing and provoking the argument doesn’t sound like he was scared. It very much sounds like he was gather evidence to show people how crazy you are. But I’m a stranger and could be wrong.

On top.of his irresponsibility with money/debt and his lying about it to your face etc ..
This recording of you, and it sounded like entrapment almost, shows him in a bad light, I think.

I don't advise people to end their marriages lightly; I do however think you should look very very carefully at who you bring children into the world with. Op could get out and does, in spite of the standard effective scaremongering about age & fertility, have time to meet another partner.
The longer this goes on, that will be being chipped away at.

It was a stupid thing to do OP , but if you are a lawyer then he may well have done it as a 'protection' kind of thing as no one would believe him over you if things went wrong . Why on earth he would record you chatting to a friendgod only knows-people do really stupid things at times. The debt thingwell its crap but its old news and surprisingly common especially amongst younger people who seem to feel embarrassed to admit it to love interests and applies to both sexes. I think you need to have a big non aggressive discussion, he needs to fully explain why he did it and be upfront, and you need to seriously think about whether the rest of your relationship outweighs this stuff or not and particularly the last few years. Confession here --I've recorded my H twice in the car discreetly when with me, as he was on a ludicrous car aggression/rant that were well over the top and hugely upset me and I did so in order to play back to myself to tell me whether I was just being over sensitive or whether he really was being a first class arse with a large anger management issue (he was) . I did delete though. You know your relationship and your own tendencies/personality better than we do on here and what his motivations were likely to be. Take care.

God I was thinking if my husband recorded me during his arguments and abuse I would look insane, he threatened to have me sectioned a few times. I would have lost my child, doesn’t really bare thinking about.

I think the slap is neither here nor there. When you are pushed into it & go to great lengths never to repeat it, or to be so reactive, to use it as a weapon against you is rather disgraceful. So put it to one side.

Right now I would wait & see what else comes up. Hes clearly very deceptive & nothing would surprise me. Give it a few months, make some backup plans & see.

If you can get friends & family to visit you both they could have useful feedback, & its possible there may be other areas of concern that pop up.

Or, as many here seem to think he could have accidentally recorded you three times after trying to get you to admit to something you didnt say & otherwise be simply wonderful!

I think he recorded you & your friend because he wanted to get a interpreter to tell him what you were saying. He doesnt trust you & thought you were talking about him. I think this is the least shit of the recordings (if he thought you wqere planning on leaving him for example) but equally you may have only found the ones he shared with other people.

Have another animated conversation with that friend telling them some completely made up thing that he simply wont be able to ignore. Then he will get it translated & youll soon know if hes still at it!

@WhoamI83 This is exactly the feedback I had from both of my friends. I heard one of them arguing with her DH only on Monday and tbh some of the things they both came up with shocked me and I don't think I could handle this kind of comments. But it is normal in their marriage and who am I to judge. Happiness and marriages are personal things. I know DH and I would never speak to each other this way and it is true that the incidents I mentioned are very rare. It is however also true that he has proved to be dishonest in three different areas now and this is making me think this is who he is and I am concerned what's around the corner. Will it be another 2,3 or 5 years and I'm going to discover he has cheated/gambled/is a MI6 undercover? I know that's far fetched, but so is recording someone covertly tbh.

Saying things that are dreadful seems to be fairly normal. Recording them? Not so much.

"a slap is neither here nor there"

Wtf.

Exactly most people have arguments at some point. But why record them and why purposely goad in them, whats he hoping to achieve! The slap had a story behind it buts what this story. What would worry me is what else is there.

Go ahead with your bitchiness, I see your abusive pattern continues.
I’ve never hit anyone in my life. So I don’t think it’s my abusive pattern that’s continuing at all. In fact, not only the hitting but your acceptance of the nonsense from other posters that he somehow goaded you into slapping him is very much sticking to the pattern.
But don’t worry, I’m hiding the thread now.

It is rather worrying that all has been peachy during lockdown (isolation) but that despite this he still feels the need, or increased need, to covertly police (record private phone calls).

I also think it is relevant that the deliberate choice to provoke you whilst upset (caused by his behaviour) and record you admitting to slapping him some years previous was a chosen alternative to addressing his current behaviour - breaking something with sentimental value belong to you, preventing you leaving to a place of safety but pursuing and shaking you. Sounds like blame shifting with added insurance.

You said you owned your mistake at the time. He forgave you for assaulting him. Why not allow him to accept his mistake?

Slapping someone, even once, is bad. But the OP's husband: lied about his finances for years, lied about important things about his family, smashed a mug in anger at the OP, followed her, forced himself into the room and shook her, tried to trap her into saying untrue things and smirked while recording her, recorded her conversation with her friend, then lied about what he had done . That's not 'a mistake', it's a catalogue of behaviour which shows exactly what kind if a person he is.

Please do not make any life-changing decisions (e.g. to leave the country) or out your career in jeooardy now. This would be very destabilising and reduce your options for dealing with your current situation.
I'm not in a position to offer relationship advice, having only been in one LTR, lasting 3 years.
That said, in terms of general behaviour, I found the recording dated this year the most worrying. If my partner was "loud" on the phone to their best friend, I might ask them if anything was the matter and support them if it was, not record the conversation... As an aside, coming from a bilingual and bicultural background myself, it strikes me that your husband may not have embraced or even accepted you speaking another language/having another culture (after all these years, could he not tell the gist of what was being said? Has he not taken even a superficial interest in your other language?). Apart from anything else, this could be an issue for having a family together, as you would most likely want to bring up your children in both languages, and your husband taking an active part in this?
To go back to the act of recording, it seems either a "hostile" move, worse than the previous recordings as the call had nothing to do with your husband, or the tip of the iceberg where your husband has been routinely recording (monitoring?) you.
That said, and in the interest of balance, you've analysed your actions in the context of your family history and experiences, but seem to consider his actions in the absolute. Could his behaviour also be explained by his upbringing (difficult or controlling mother?) or MH issues neither of you have acknowledged?
You mentioned that he has been your anchor, does he have other trusted relationships, friends or family he can confide in and rely on? Or are you all he has?
Please understand I am in no way trying to minimise the seriousness of what might have been going on and of course he would have to be willing to be honest, really apologise to you and improve his behaviour in anyway possible (=therapy), just like you have.

I spoke to him again. He said he did the wrong thing breaking my mug and then pursuing and shaking me and freaked out about his own behaviour and then did the stupid thing gouding and recording me, I guess to show he's not "that bad" kind of thing. Unluckily for him I actually brought up what he just did in the recording so I suppose he could never use it afterwards. It sounds like he was very embarrassed about his own behaviour and it did feel like this at the time... but I still don't think it makes it right. He said the latest recording is completely unrelated and innocent in that he genuinely just wanted to show me I was loud on the phone and then forgot all about it. In fact he said he completely forgot about those earlier recordings too. But then he never even told me they existed, surely he didn't just wake up the next morning with sudden memory loss

Someone said, you made a mistake before, forgive him his mistake. That's true, I could forgive the recording in these circumstances. But it doesn't change my thoughts about him being deceitful in general, unfortunately.

The debt thing--well its crap but its old news and surprisingly common especially amongst younger people who seem to feel embarrassed to admit it to love interests and applies to both sexes

Eh, no it's not.

Esp taking someone's help and encouragement etc. to pay it off while lying to them about the extent of it, and by quite a degree.

@MidnightColours I could have written that myself. You're right, he hasn't embraced my language at all. I offered many times I'd teach him or have conversations with him in my language but he never took me up on it. He had a couple of apps and made a very basic effort but always uses the excuse that "he's British and not very good with languages". In fairness I heard the same from other people here as well, but I just don't understand how this could be a reason - he simply can't be bothered. His pronunciation is great too so a complete loss that he is just lazy. I asked him many times how he'd cope with the children because you're absolutely right, they'd be bilingual and I'd speak to them in my mother tongue at home. He said "he'd learn with them" Completely unrealistic, he's nearly 40.

He has nice friends around and is close with his dad but not his mother. MIL is a very cold person and rather mean to most people around, including his dad and him. DH's sister is MIL's favourite. DH already had counselling in the past because of her, I suppose this difficult relationship might well still be affecting him.

@Thisisme34

If you stay with this guy, please just don't bring kids into this. You guys haven't a clue how to communicate during conflict, it will be 100 times worse with children involved.

If you want to forgive him, sure, your prerogative, just keep the chaos between the two of you

He said he did the wrong thing breaking my mug and then pursuing and shaking me and freaked out about his own behaviour and then did the stupid thing gouding and recording me

I must have missed this ...

Do you really want to breed with this guy?

I know that sounds really harsh and cold but .... he's going to be in your life 18 plus years and your kids' lives permanently. You're going to be tied up with him financially and every other way.

You have a good job, are well educated, (doubly impressive you work here Inna professional role with English presumably not being your first language), you sound like a good person, you may feel old but at 34 you are most definitely not. You do have time to meet someone else.