Do old fashioned men still exist?

[BooFuckingHoo2]

Was going to NC but fuck it

I’m approaching 30 and I’ve been single for a couple of years now. I’m definitely attracted to a specific type of man, I.e. someone who’s “dominant”, has a good job and wants to play the traditional “man” role. (Also being tall and good looking helps ).

When I say traditional “man” role I mean be earning at least equal to me and be the main “provider” of the family if we were to have kids in future (I’d want to go PT). I also find it attractive when men are assertive and protective of their families and have strong morals/are chivalrous.

It seems these type of men are becoming either vanishingly rare or the ones that do exist are total dickheads! I OLD and 50% of the men I meet (and I screen them extensively first ) turn out to be very passive and (I’ll be flamed for this) want me to pay half on a first date .

Has anyone got a “traditional” DH/DP or does anyone dare to admit this is what they want?

Do these men still exist (non dick head ones) and how can I make sure I attract them?

What happens in these modern relationships when the woman has children and no income ? Is she expected to dig into her savings to still pay half of the bills?

As in if she gives up her job after dc? I assume that would be a joint decision & they would have shared money?

@TheStuffedPenguin in the good modern relationships? No. Not at all. They are equal partnerships. When one partner is down (for whatever reason- maternity, unemployment, sickness), the other tries their best to step up and 'provide' for the family. Its jst that the default isnt woman doing unpaid care work and the male entitled to that work.

Join a trad wife group on social media. I'm sure they'll give you some tips and/or you might start to doubt wanting to get into a relationship like that.

I think for me it's that there are too many immature manchildren and annoying as fuck woke liberal men.

Quite frankly OP you sound like a child.
Looking for a man like you're going shopping...
Your views on gender roles are not just old-fashioned, they sound boring, and betray a lack of personal ambition on your side, that many non-abusive assertive men will find unattractive (unless you manage to sell your homemaker persona really, really well: you will need to be the overachieving type on that front, and prove it)
In other words, you need to be an alpha in order to attract other alphas.

I get what you mean re: passive types, though. Not attractive to me either.
If you want an action man, look for someone who is either into sports (the doing type, not the watching type), or has a very competitive career. You may be surprised to find that many book-ish men (e.g. successful academics) fall in this second category. But be ready for them to be married to their jobs... (be careful what you wish for)

Can I ask a question here ? What happens in these modern relationships when the woman has children and no income ? Is she expected to dig into her savings to still pay half of the bills?

Why do you equate having children with not having an income?

While some high earning men may look for a housewife, the practical reality is that most men aged 20-50 do not earn enough money in their own right to support a family (with any sort of quality life anyway). The national average net salary in the UK according to the ONS, is a mere £501 per week. Factor in a mortgage payment, car loan and utilities, and it doesn't leave much in the bank for supporting a family. The jobs market can be an uncertain place at times of recession and pandemics, so the bread-winner may lose some or all of their income over the course of an economic life-time. My neighbours are selling up for just that reason...he has been made redundant due to COVID, and her part-time job doesn't cut the mustard. They are constantly fighting about money.

A lot of women I know locally who are in a housewife role with a high earning partner do their 'job' in a transactional way. They clean, they cook, they organise the house and he does little of that...but they also leave themselves vulnerable to future destitution and having no life outside the housewife role. It is true that marriage affords financial rights in the event of divorce, but I would be loathe to leave myself in a position of potential peril in later life because I gave up a career and my savings. You have to think about rainy days and things not always working out. It is a reasonable position to hold given the high divorce rates. I am a single parent now, but one of the nice aspects of the divorce was that I had the salary and capital to separate quickly and smoothly when I needed to get away from my ex.

@VodselForDinner

Can I ask a question here ? What happens in these modern relationships when the woman has children and no income ? Is she expected to dig into her savings to still pay half of the bills?

Why do you equate having children with not having an income?

You know what I mean - whether it is reduced maternity pay , extended no pay leave or not working and being at home .

I think the problem is OP, that men these days (quite rightly so), have been brought up to believe women are their equals.

Certainly a nice idea. What happened is that women are expected to continue both roles. They are expected to do the wife work: run the household, take care of the children and keep the house tidy PLUS work because she's, you know, an equal.

In the meantime, the men aren't expected nor do they voluntarily take on, any of the 'wife work' - so it seems as though those 'traditional' aka sexist - attitudes are still going strong.

According to a study carried out by UCL last year, in 93% of households, women do the bulk of the housework. When both were in full time employment, women were five times more likely to do the bulk of household chores.

It's a win win for men.

I agree, you’re probably looking at an older generation of men.

It was the norm for guys to pay for dates when I was in my teens and 20s, and that was only in the 90s/early 2000s. I’d often offer to pay my way and be waved away like it was a nice idea but really not necessary. I am and have always been a feminist, so it didn’t always sit comfortably with me, but it was just ‘how things were’.

I think I lucked out with my DH (I’m 40s, he’s 50s though - and we met 20 years ago!).

He’s not a chauvinist - we have a really good equal partnership when it comes to decision making, childcare, housework etc. To be honest, THIS is what has become most important since we married and had children. I also never wanted to be a housewife or have a ‘little job’, and keeping my career has, I think, contributed to us being an equal partnership. This starts to become more apparent and much more important when your kids get older and need you less, and you’ve still got an income, identity and social circle outside of your marriage.

Having said that, my DH is definitely chivalrous and I do like that about him. He is protective of me and the kids. He does all the ‘gentlemanly’ stuff like opening doors. He likes to ‘look after me’. And he is ‘alpha Male’ in so much as he pursues his career, is quite a strong character, very masculine. However, without all the other stuff, that wouldn’t really make him a good or great man. It’s only sexy long term because he is also caring and treats me well.

Also, internet dating is a different ballgame to how we did things. So many dates with so many randoms. I’m not sure I’d be paying for them all if I was a guy these days.

@BeardyButton and @userbbb you see I still see that as "financially dependent" . Yes it may be agreed but it remains so . TBH I don't see anything wrong with that as that is what relationships are all about but don't claim it is independent .

You want my DH -sorry, not going to happen ha ha!

Seriously though, I think you're shutting too many doors with this 'screening' business. A very quick overview of DH and our relationship should show you what I mean.

We met when I was late 30s and he was early 40s. We met through an organisation which was set up for people who wanted to meet friends (men and women - if you went in looking for a man they'd run a mile!)

We began seeing each other then decided to marry. We both wanted children but knew time was against us. We luckily had our DH when I was 44 years old - he was 50.

He's not old fashioned in his views about women in general. He's got two very feisty sisters, both of whom have brought their kids up to see men/women as complete equals and they'd have knocked that on the head from a very young age! We bring DS up the same. DS saw me at home with him all the time but we've drummed into him that, if dad had wanted to be at home and I could/wanted to support that, that was perfectly fine as would both of us working full time outside the home. It's a personal preference up for discussion/negotiation rather than a male/female thing set in stone.

But what he is, is supportive and very caring. I gave up work to bring up DS when he was born, because I wanted to. DH earns good money, easily supporting all of us. I had my own flat before we met so we put equal deposit down on our house and it's jointly owned even though he pays the mortgage. DH paid all the bills but gave me an allowance each month that was mine. I did what I wanted with that - he hated the idea of me asking if I could buy shoes or get my hair cut. He thinks that's demeaning so money went into my account and I did what I wanted.

There was and still isn't any question of 'house clean and tidy every day, dinner on the table when I get home'. He understood from the start that my priority was our boy. The house gets cleaned, dinner gets cooked but it may not be completed when he got home (and before now he's done dinner and finished the hoovering as I've had a pig of a day with DS when he was a toddler. We've all had that 'time shot by' day). He'd come home from work, take over DS whilst I did dinner and was hands on. I bottle fed and at the weekend DH took over all the night feeds so I could have a lie in. He used to do the middle of the night feeds too as in his words 'I can sleep on the train, you need to be alert for DS. He's the priority, you need to sleep'. I didn't give DS a bath for the first three years of his life as DH loved that bonding (and yes, he did wipe down the bathroom after the splashing). I also got to go away for a night or two every three months or so - usually as trade shows for an interest I have came up. DH would have a 'boys weekend' with his son - usually pizza, swimming, film, hurtling around the park and some sort of outing before they met me at the station. Though he was 50 when DS was born, he's not a 'granddad' style older father - he makes our younger friends flag sometimes!

He does all the ironing - he was out of work two years or so ago and took it over as something to do. I was running (still am) a growing on line craft style shop then so any help was very welcome! He got a job last year but he's kept up the ironing. He works away usually during the week now and sees it as his way of taking one job off my plate.

So yes, he is 'old fashioned' in that there's a 'traditional' relationship. But he couldn't care less if I work full time or stay at home (I now work part time as DS has just hit his teens and needs me less). DH's view is he earns enough so it's my choice whether I am home (full time or part time) or work (full time or part time). He'd have expected (and would have got) the same if I'd have been the one to earn the high salary - but I didn't.

His role in the family is the foundation that supports me and DS - he quietly holds us both up and does a lot to make our lives easy. He will drop everything if we need help and we know that. He's not a saint - I could write equally about the things he doesn't always get right - but neither am I.

But you wouldn't have spotted that in your 'screenings' - he didn't even see 'SAHM' or 'you do the cleaning/I do something else' as a thing. He saw supporting someone he loved as a 'thing'. You could miss someone similar just because you've never given a relationship a chance.

[quote BooFuckingHoo2]@NataliaOsipova I think you’re probably right. Out of interest where do you think I can meet them?[/quote]
Travis Perkins.

I'm not sure they'd be for me, but I think they do exist!

A friend once lamented to me on a night out that he just wanted a girl to love and look after, who was happy to travel with him frequently so ideally wouldn't need or want to be tied to one place by a job (he travels a lot for his work and is in a position that allows him to take his partner along with him), to have children with and look after them day to day while he looks after all of them financially.

He's a genuinely lovely bloke just with old fashioned ideas, probably from the way his own parents operated, and I'm happy to say that he found her not too long after. They've now got a lovely DC and are all living abroad for a year or so for his work.

It seems these type of men are becoming either vanishingly rare or the ones that do exist are total dickheads.

I think the problem is that dickheadedness is pretty much an inherent trait of any man who in 2020 still has the kind of attitudes that you describe. Those attitudes go hand-in-hand with thinking that men are superior to women, which is obviously utter bullshit.

Sometimes the underlying misogyny of these charming, chivalrous men does not become apparent while everything is going their way and all is rosy in the relationship.

I liked that kind of man when I was young and foolish. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole now (if I were single) and would see very chivalrous or protective attitudes as a huge red flag tbh.

Yep, I have one of these. Been married 33 years. I got married when I was 19 . I have mostly been a SAHM, had a few part time office jobs. I do not work now as I have ill health so am just a traditional housewife, although I am studying for interest. I did plan on doing some volunteer work too once Corona is no longer a threat!

I do most of the housework there are some heavy things I cannot do now due to my health so DH helps with those.

He has a good job and has always provided for me and the DH, who are now grown up. I would not say he is a dominant man, I sort out all the bills, finances, etc but he is a traditional man, he will open doors for me, walk on the roadside of the pavement, he pays for everything, etc.

It works for us but some see it as old fashioned.

It seems these type of men are becoming either vanishingly rare or the ones that do exist are total dickheads!
Why are the "traditional" men you've come across so far dickheads? What are they doing that makes them so?

Do you like the idea more than the reality?

Can I ask a question here ? What happens in these modern relationships when the woman has children and no income ? Is she expected to dig into her savings to still pay half of the bills?
In a truly modern relationship, then the woman has children and an income, as the husband takes on as much of the burden of childcare as her, and the state gives them both the means to care for their children when they are very young.
(No idea if the UK is that modern.)

@TheStuffedPenguin did I claim it was independent?

OP, if this is the way for you, well there are certainly lots of men on OLD who claim to want an old-fashioned relationship. You'd have to do a lot of research to see exactly what they meant by that. However, people lie or change their minds when reality hits, and divorce is very common these days, so if you make any commitment, do make sure by legal means that you are secure if he ever buggers off or turns out to be a nasty git.

I do agree that expecting a stranger they have never seen IRL to pay half is no indication of how generous they would be if they were actually pursuing you, or married.

My DP has always been the main earner and has supported me financially a lot, however I now earn about the same as him/slightly more if you only take into account his earnings from his job and not his business. He’s a good man, raised in a traditional working class family, knows/feels his role is to step up and protect the family (well, me and the cat) in times of need.
I do all of the cleaning because I love it, he cooks and does basically everything else 😬 deals with bills, DIY, waters our 100+ houseplants. He would like for us both to go part time when/if we have children.

As a PP said, he opens doors, carries heavy bags, pays at restaurants quite often, etc etc. But I wouldn’t call him old fashioned, he’s very respectful of women and I don’t think he feels he does anything special, just fulfils a role he has seen his grandad and then his dad do. But he wouldn’t do it if I didn’t like it.

What a fucking nasty thing to write. Do you really think secretaries are intellectually lacking?

I'm sure pp didn't mean that. But in comparison to a high achieving exec, there will be an intellectual disparity.

@ravenmum I agree but the UK is not that modern unfortunately.

I worked pre dc & changed to a new career post dc which I have worked really hard in. Yes I don't earn as much as DH (may in the future) but DH shares the load so we combine drop offs, sick days etc. However I do recognise that we are privileged enough to be able to afford childcare in the first place & DH could wfh pre Covid which helps.

Aaah, the problem is that men who are "traditional" in this sense ie dominant, financial providers etc, seem to think they only have to enjoy the "good" bits of this - eg no housework, dirty nappys, total freedom etc without anyone suggesting they do the "bad" bits too - heavy lifting, DIY, bins, late night driving etc. Plus of course, spending time with their family.

Growing up, lots of my friends had mums who worked part time or were SAHM. So "traditional". But... their dads were involved and engaged. They were there in the evenings, helped with homework, did 90% of the late night lift clubs, turned up for sporting and other events etc etc etc.

But every woman I know today who has this supposedly traditional set up, is left at home doing everything. The kids barely see their dads. The woman is "weaker" and yet, the man doesn't seem to feel the need to help her out.

Having said that, if you want this, I'd look for an Antipodean man living in Europe. A friend once asked me (as a South African) if she should be offended that when her husband travelled for work, her neighbour, South African, would just automatically put her bins out for her on garbage day! . Obviously HUGE generalisations here and this is slightly tongue in cheek, but I'd say that my South African friends and family in Europe where the relationship is more "traditional" are more likely to still enjoy plenty of family time and have men who do do their fair share, even if it's within very specific lanes.