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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do old fashioned men still exist?

356 replies

BooFuckingHoo2 · 11/08/2020 09:33

Was going to NC but fuck it Grin

I’m approaching 30 and I’ve been single for a couple of years now. I’m definitely attracted to a specific type of man, I.e. someone who’s “dominant”, has a good job and wants to play the traditional “man” role. (Also being tall and good looking helps Grin).

When I say traditional “man” role I mean be earning at least equal to me and be the main “provider” of the family if we were to have kids in future (I’d want to go PT). I also find it attractive when men are assertive and protective of their families and have strong morals/are chivalrous.

It seems these type of men are becoming either vanishingly rare or the ones that do exist are total dickheads! I OLD and 50% of the men I meet (and I screen them extensively first Grin) turn out to be very passive and (I’ll be flamed for this) want me to pay half on a first date ShockGrin.

Has anyone got a “traditional” DH/DP or does anyone dare to admit this is what they want?

Do these men still exist (non dick head ones) and how can I make sure I attract them?

OP posts:
Annist · 14/08/2020 01:06

DH is 45 and he fits the bill. Most high earning men do that I've encountered. Most of them couldn't have a family and the high earning job if they didn't have a wife to do most of the domestic stuff. It really didn't work for me at first but we've both made compromises and found a decent middle ground. I've gotten to stay home with my kids and that was very important to me. I've picked up part time work now but the money I make isn't what keeps us afloat. I was just as senior as DH before the kids came along. This was a choice for me. But DH is far more involved with the kids than a "traditional father". He plays with them and does bath time every night. He helps with homework etc. He doesn't clean a damn thing and that drive me crazy for a long time. We now have a cleaner twice a week and that works for me!

KatherineJaneway · 14/08/2020 07:30

[quote chubbyhotchoc]@KatherineJaneway does she actually get asked though? I never found men asked me to pay or expected it. I did a good year of dating and probably had more than 40 first dates before I met my husband. I only had one guy that didn't pay and that was more he had a drink when he arrived and then didn't ask me if I wanted one too. I ended the date after thirty minutes ( weirdly he did call repeatedly asking for another date after). Never had an issue getting follow up dates either or anybody moaning or hinting I should pay. [/quote]
@chubbyhotchoc

Not that I know of. She's just told me if he asks or hints at her to pay on their first date, there isn't a second. I've always assumed the bill lands and she doesn't reach for it or it's given to him.

KatherineJaneway · 14/08/2020 07:39

Given your user name, perhaps you can answer this question, what do dating couples in the 23rd century do given that money no longer exists?

@DillonPanthersTexas

Assume its not an issue unless you're on Voyager in the Delta Quadrant and your date insists on eating Neelix's food rather than using their replicator rations Grin

TheCaveCreature · 14/08/2020 09:27

I always thought Janeway and Chakoty had a "thing" but he ended up marrying 7of9.

I think I might have to re-watch all 7 seasons on netflix, great programmeGrin

WerkHorse · 14/08/2020 10:12

I'm considerably older than you but young enough to have been admonished by my peers if I had said outright that I wanted a traditional set up. I was a career woman and could have been a CEO by now but it was never really 'me'. I always knew what I wanted from a very very young age. I didn't get it until my 30s because I was too interested in having lots of fun but I also think I was subconsciously looking for the right man that would enable me to live the kind of life I wanted. Nothing wrong with that imo.

I met mine through a friend of a friend through hanging out as a group. He was a generous and kind man to EVERYONE. That's the key. You're looking for that type of man. He had a good job, he had money but didn't 'care' about it but wasn't careless with it by which I mean he would happily pay for the takeaway curry for 6 people if he went to the door and wouldn't take cash from us (not in a loud wankerish way) but wouldn't 'fritter' his money away on a flashy car etc, gamble, make bad investments etc. He would go out of his way to hold open a door for anyone - man or woman, would always be the one to step into the road if someone was coming down the street with kids/buggy etc. Showed compassion to those less fortunate than him. Was respectful to and about women.

He was an all round nice guy. When we started dating he would often pay for things - I never expected it and would offer but he would just shrug and say you get it next time. When I asked him about it later he would say it was the way he was brought up, that if he could afford it he should pay because who knew what money worries others had? It was a small thing that he could do that might make a difference in some way to someone's day.

I saw him with his family - I could see where he got it from. He was kind, respectful, helpful. He was amazing with younger family members. Bends over backwards to help them.

We discussed kids and the set up before we went down that road. We both agreed that if possible one of us would be 'at home' (me, I wanted to) and the other would up our game career wise so that we'd have a good incone - we were both doing well but coasting. We also agreed that if I ever wanted to go back to work then that is what I would do, no if's or buts.

I do the lion share of housework but not everything. He never expected a spic and span house and I don't think I have ever had his 'dinner on the table' when he got home from work. My main job was always to take care of the kids first and foremost, anything else was a bonus. It was always about making sure the kids were happy and healthy. Who cares if there's dust on the shelf.

Don't look for a 'traditional' man.
Look for an all round kind gregarious family man who has a good job and a stable personality. I think you need to find someone who is happy to make you happy and generally happy to be the breadwinner.

Oh and my husband is a dick sometimes but so am I - things are never always perfect.

Good luck.

Wondersense · 14/08/2020 10:40

@Aerial2020

What another poster said about looking at yourself and your internalised misogyny is a valid point. Choosing a man to have children with is so important . Not only are you are tied to them for the rest of your life but you would want them to be the best father they can be. You are actively seeking a man, as you call it ' old fashioned' or (outdated more like) to want the woman to do all the domestic chores, work and take care of the children. And you want to do it too!! How on earth is that attractive or appealing? Or being the best possible father? Most men, even when working full time, will do the best to share this. Because they want to and it's part of marriage. The ones that don't are the dickheads mumsnet is full of women complaining about. And to walk into that life as something you want and choose rather than build as a team. Absolute bonkers.
Because Aerial, not everyone is like you and me, and that's fine.

Some women actually enjoy house chores. They find it deeply satisfying to keep a nice house and to be a husband pleaser - they really exist! However, the danger lies in idealising this kind of marriage when it so often comes with its own downsides. The op need to be prepared for that and needs to decide what price she is willing to pay to get it. It may be that she likes the idea of staying home a lot now, but after a while, it might soon fade. After all, if she's on a very high salary, my thinking is that she's a very competent, driven, ambitious, conscientious individual.

My concern is this (and I'll try to describe this as best as I can) - when women totally stay at home, that is then their job. It's a job that is 24hrs a day, but at least there's no extra responsibilities on top of that to stress them out when they're with the children or in the downtime when the children are sleeping.

When a woman works part time though, she is occupied in a normal job half the week, and is ALSO often expected to be the main manager of the kids as well. It often doesn't start out like that, but I think it often does.

In a fairer household, a man would think 'hmmmm'.....she works 3 days out of 5, so when I'm at home I still need to do xyz because she's occupied like me in a job the rest of the time'. Unfortunately, I don't think this is how it works most of the time.

I think for a lot of people, once someone shows that care of the children, they then are pretty much 100% in charge of them and take on all the mental load of looking after them, no matter if they're in a part time or not. I think this is why so many women are so stressed. Because they work part time, the children are still more their responsibility compared to the full time working father, and this on top of a demanding part time job must be really stressful. I think whether they plan for it or not, it's simply faster for that part time parent to do most of the mental childcare (like remember doctors appointments and such), but it doesn't mean it's fair or healthy.

BigusBumus · 14/08/2020 11:47

@BooFuckingHoo2 I married one. He hunts and shoots, goes to the pub, he's big and strong, very muscular. Earns a lot. A bit of a misogynist at times and needs pulling up about it on occasion. Doesn't do much housework or childcare, but thats ok. I find him deeply sexy, even after all the time. He makes me feel feminine when in reality I am not very feminine at all. He is such a Man. Even our 3 boys think that of him, are proud of him and i think they are growing up to emulate him. Apart from the fact that they have skincare routines where he has never used moisturiser in his life.

NellieTeehan · 14/08/2020 11:53

A bit of a misogynist at times and needs pulling up about it on occasion. Doesn't do much housework or childcare, but thats ok. I find him deeply sexy, even after all the time. He makes me feel feminine when in reality I am not very feminine at all. He is such a Man. Even our 3 boys think that of him, are proud of him and i think they are growing up to emulate him.

And it doesn't strike you as at all problematic that you see his misogyny and apparent disinclination to put his size and strength to work doing housework or childcare as part of him being 'such a Man'? Or that your three sons are imbibing the idea that being a misogynist and not doing any housework and childcare are things to be emulated? Hmm

BigusBumus · 14/08/2020 12:13

@NellieTeehan No I don't see it as problematic. He uses his size and strength to work bloody hard all day long (we own a construction company). He has taught our boys a very good work ethic and they also work hard because of him. My children are not misogynists however as they have been brought up by ME and not my MIL.

Iflyaway · 14/08/2020 12:15

Out of interest where do you think I can meet them?

Bet southern Europe is full of them...... Spain, Italy, Greece. Smile

category12 · 14/08/2020 12:35

Bleurgh to the abomination that is "choice feminism" when it equals "I say I'm in favour of equal rights, therefore everything I do is a feminist choice therefore if I choose to wait on a guy hand and foot and treat him like a superior, it's not propping up the patriarchy." What absolute tosh and baloney. Sure you're teaching your child about equality when you flutter around daddy doing everything for him. Hmm

Lweji · 14/08/2020 13:08

@Iflyaway

Out of interest where do you think I can meet them?

Bet southern Europe is full of them...... Spain, Italy, Greece. Smile

Hmm
KatherineJaneway · 14/08/2020 13:09

I always thought Janeway and Chakoty had a "thing" but he ended up marrying 7of9.

@TheCaveCreature

He didn't marry Seven, although they were bf and gf near the end of Voyager. Seven ended up being a Fenris ranger with no sign of Chakotay in sight. And she's into women now, not men.

ShebaShimmyShake · 14/08/2020 13:18

[quote BigusBumus]**@BooFuckingHoo2* I married one. He hunts and shoots, goes to the pub, he's big and strong, very muscular. Earns a lot. A bit of a misogynist at times and needs pulling up about it on occasion. Doesn't do much housework or childcare, but thats ok. I find him deeply sexy, even after all the time. He makes me feel feminine when in reality I am not very feminine at all. He is such a Man*. Even our 3 boys think that of him, are proud of him and i think they are growing up to emulate him. Apart from the fact that they have skincare routines where he has never used moisturiser in his life.[/quote]
I don't care about your domestic arrangement, but good luck raising boys who aren't misogynists when you know your husband hates women, even if it is only "a bit". How much man-hating will be acceptable for your future daughters in law?

backseatcookers · 14/08/2020 13:23

I cannot fathom finding someone who is "a bit of a misogynist" sexy. Have a read of that. Grim.

But each to their own. Just a shame that it affects other people because you have children. Sons who grow up with a misogynist for a father and a mother who pulls him up "on occasion" but still finds him sexy are unlikely to end up being particularly respectful of women.

Do old fashioned men still exist?
ShebaShimmyShake · 14/08/2020 13:41

I wonder if he's also a bit of a racist. They often are, in my experience. The wives like to tell us how sexy and masculine they are. They have to tell us. There's no other way you'd know.

I was raised by one of these, btw. Right down to never using moisturiser because real men flake their skin everywhere. That was nice too. Mum also said it wouldn't do us any harm. She was wrong too, although she will still insist everything's brilliant. It isn't.

OP, are you still with us? Please trust me that you can find a solvent, sexually dominant, caring and protective man who doesn't hate women, even just "a bit". I did and I'm nothing special. And if you can't, better single than someone who doesn't inherently hate you. A bit.

Lweji · 14/08/2020 13:43

My children are not misogynists however as they have been brought up by ME and not my MIL.

Your husband could have chosen not to be one, though. Like many children who have rejected their parents' values.

backseatcookers · 14/08/2020 13:45

OP, are you still with us? Please trust me that you can find a solvent, sexually dominant, caring and protective man who doesn't hate women, even just "a bit". I did and I'm nothing special. And if you can't, better single than someone who doesn't inherently hate you. A bit.

Same here OP. Me and DP laugh every day, are proud of each other's achievements, fancy each other rotten, take an interest in each other's lives, don't disrespect each other and don't ever say nasty stuff to each other. That's how it should be. We are both worth more than a checklist of attributes with no substance. We are both decent, kind, loving people. We don't have to hold ourselves and our individual success back (like PP who said her partner wouldn't be happy if she earned more) in order to be a happy couple because we love each other.

LolaSmiles · 14/08/2020 14:47

category12
I can get on board with people divvying up working out the home and staying home with children in different ways on the grounds that there'd be give and take on both sides.

What I struggle with is the nauseating wifey talk about how DH has a big and important job, DH needs his slippers warming and tea on the table after he's worked so hard, I adore catering to my husband's every need because he works so hard, I'm naturally house proud and love cleaning whereas DH is naturally more driven to success out the home (socialisation and narrow gender norms couldn't possibly be why so many women think they are 'natural' homemakers and so many men 'don't see mess' Hmm), I need DH to protect me from talking to builders and other such manly things that only a big alpha man can do because I'm a helpless wee woman. Etc.

Illegitiminoncarborundum · 14/08/2020 14:50

@LolaSmiles

That's such a shame you struggle to see how someone else can have a different point of view. It really is a shame.

SleepingStandingUp · 14/08/2020 16:15

My children are not misogynists however as they have been brought up by ME and not my MIL. But you've said yourself that they think he's big and strong and such a MAN whatever that is meant to mean, that they're emulating him. But you think they won't emulate this one thing because they're being raised by a woman who loves a misogynist??

ShebaShimmyShake · 14/08/2020 16:16

Tbh, if you do intend to work fewer hours or be a SAHM, you'd do well to be able to talk to tradesmen because they're most likely to come while husband is working and you're at home. They're usually very nice chaps. I've never had a problem.

SleepingStandingUp · 14/08/2020 17:13

@ShebaShimmyShake

Tbh, if you do intend to work fewer hours or be a SAHM, you'd do well to be able to talk to tradesmen because they're most likely to come while husband is working and you're at home. They're usually very nice chaps. I've never had a problem.
Presumably the plan is to hair twirl, Google and say "oh god need to talk to my husband, I don't know anything about that big manly stuff"
SleepingStandingUp · 14/08/2020 17:13

Giggle not Google

LolaSmiles · 14/08/2020 17:24

Illegitiminoncarborundum
I didn't say I couldn't see someone having a different point of view.

I was replying to someone else discussing feminism and saying I can get on board with people structuring their home lives differently, but struggle to get on board with nauseating wifey chat.