Trapped in a toxic mess with drinker in denial

[smokeorfire]

It's been going on for years. Every time I think maybe it'll be different but it's not. I feel now like he's just taking the piss out of me, drinking and being vile, then pretending nothing happened. "Why are you making arguments again?", "That was at the weekend, why are you still going on about it?", "So and so drinks just as much as me, go and give them a row."

And when I try and put "rules" in place he tells me, literally, that he doesn't give a fuck.

I feel manipulated, lied to, like I don't know which way is up.

He'll say he loves me, but the level of spite / indifference / contempt when he turns away from me to open another can feels much more real than any love.

I wanted to write this down. I go round in circles with it. I just want him to choose me over the beer, but it's like I'm being unreasonable ("what more do you want from me?") to even expect such a thing. Why? Because I'm 50? Because I'm a nagging bitch?

I don't know anymore.

Why are you still with this person?

What’s trapping you in this abusive situation? What do you need to be able to leave?

I don't know. In lots of ways I love him, he's beautiful (younger than me), lovely to be with when he chooses. It feels pathetic to say it, but I want him to love me. I don't want him to choose the drink over me. But now I can see how easily he plays me, how confident he is of my affections, sense of decency / responsibility / kindness.

I don't need to leave, he lives here in my house.

Get him out,
Are there children involved?

Does he pay towards the bills, rent, mortgage. Could he go back to where he lived before.

I have two children, not his.

I feel so heartbroken. But I also feel so twisted up with the knowledge that he can spin me about so easily, refusing to deal with what is so clearly a problem.

I feel so worthless.

You can't make him stop drinking, you can't control it, and it definitely isn't your fault.

He pays, yes. But not right now because he lost his job (covid layoff). We talked about money, he paid off a loan (his), I said I'd help look after him (he has agency work, isn't work shy) but now I feel like a total mug. A fool.

You have the key to your own cell. You're not trapped at all. It's shit of you to have this wanker around your children. Just get him gone, you're a grown woman and a mother.

He takes my money (indirectly, but still), my affection, my nice organised home, and what? Chooses drink and tells me I'm the one with a problem.

I don't want to control him, really not at all. I want him to make choices that put me somewhere near the top of his list, not because it gives him an easy life, but because he cares about me for who I am.

As someone who has recently ended a 12 year relationship with an alcoholic, I can say that life without an addict is a million times more pleasant than living with one. All the best to you.

But he doesn't. You're a convenience.

I just ended 15 yr relationship witH gaslighting alcoholic fuckwit. I was questioning my own sanity at the end and in a terrible place. People with alcohol decency issues are manipulative. It is early days for me but I totally agree with @BritInAus that not walking on eggshells in your own home is bloody great.

I am a convenience. 100%. Literally nothing more.

@BritInAus thank you for your kind wishes, it's the glimpses of how life might be that keep me with him, but then reality is exactly what @Bmidreams says, I suit his purposes in most heartless of ways. Even when he threatens to leave it's on his terms. Yes, it is shit of me as a mother and human being. I am really aware of that and am trying always to protect my children.

@Seriouslynotagain I wish you all the very best. Just to hear "people with alcohol dependency issues are manipulative" is so helpful. It drives me crazy how my words, emotions, actions are constantly distorted.

I want him to love me. I don't want him to choose the drink over me.
I know you clearly love him dearly, but nothing you do or don't do is ever going to change how he behaves or how he treats you- only he can change that, and he doesn't want to. You feel lied to and manipulated because that's exactly what's happening. He tells you one thing but does another. If you want to know how someone really feels ignore everything they say and pay attention to what they do- at the moment you're doing the opposite. Words can be cheap, especially if you're saying them to someone who is desperate to believe them.

You can't change him and he doesn't want to change. Love on its own is rarely enough, you need to be treated with a basic level of respect and kindness as well. I know you don't want to control him, but no matter how much you love him he is clearly never going to want the same thing as you from this relationship.
It might be useful to doing some research online regarding 'drinking and co-dependent relationships', it might help you see some of the patterns going on and why you feel so trapped in this cycle. Good luck OP.

He'll say he loves me, but the level of spite / indifference / contempt when he turns away from me to open another can feels much more real than any love.

That's because it is. He loves his drink, himself and his cushy life. This will never get any better and he will never give you what you want.

You do not need his permission to move this on nor do you have to get him to validate your feelings for them to be real. Just tell him you're not happy and you want him out. Keep repeating this to him. Don't engage in debate or argument with him. Tell him you're unhappy and you've had enough, he has to go.

He will likely promise to change or cut back so he doesn't lose his cushy number but any changes he makes will be very short lived and you'll be left feeling even more ground down and crushed than you do now.

If he refuses to leave or kicks off, don't hesitate to get the police involved. Change the locks once he's gone.

i would second the broken record technique referred to above. over and over, "this isn't working, hasn't for years, you need to move out"
it's not your fault, it's his alcoholism causing this, it won't get better.

@Wildwood6, you are absolutely right. the words he really means are the words of contempt, he's always been much more specific and pointed in telling me about how crap i am than otherwise. the easy, cheap words, the ones i'm desperate to believe, have nothing like as much feeling behind them. and are rare. i have read lots about co-dependency, was in counselling before lockdown, but still spin myself about in this mess.

@HomeTheatreSystem, yes he loves himself, the drink and the cushy life far far more than he loves me. He doesn't even bother, though, with any promises to change. Yesterday he came home and told me that i needed to change because he didn't need any arguments in his life (easily translated as not wanting any 'nagging' woman to disrupt his evening's TV viewing with her thoughts / opinions / feelings).

And, no, I don't need his permission. Or his validation. But I wish it didn't feel so crushing to accept that he simply doesn't give a shit about me (and, worse, that i'm still holding out hope that one day he might).

Thank you, everyone, so much for talking with me about this.

Look again at your title "Trapped in a toxic mess with drinker in denial"

You are not trapped.

It is toxic.

He is not in denial, he says he doesn't give a fuck.

Tell him to leave by tomorrow.
He will laugh, and say "Here we go again"

Its all a big joke to him.

He gets bed, food & booze at yours, plus he is debt free. Happy days for him.

Why would he go?

@Ernieshere, yes it is all a big joke to him. a joke at my expense, in every possible way. no one trapped me, i set myself up to be taken for an absolute fool. i am being too kind, you are right, to say he's 'in denial'. he's not. as far as he's concerned there's no problem. all he has to do is be properly nasty to me and then i'll leave him in peace to enjoy bed, booze and food unimpeded.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?
Was a parent an alcoholic too?.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. What is still in this for you?

Hope is your enemy here; this is your life as well as your kids lives until you wake up and stop being an utter mug.

You are confusing love here with codependency and you are in a codependent relationship with a cocklodger drunkard. Any children who are witness to all this are being emotionally damaged by seeing you being codependent and him acting like an abusive drunkard. What do you want them to remember of their childhoods; you being permanently preoccupied and not fully emotionally available to them because of him?. Put your own self first for a change as well as these children; not him.

His primary relationship is with drink; its not with you and its never been with you infact either.

What happened to you, how did you get here to such a low point in your life where you describe yourself as trapped?. You're not trapped and this is your home; you have basically boxed yourself into a corner because of your "love"/codependency for this man. You cannot love anyone like him better and your people pleaser, rescuer and saviour tendencies have cost you dearly as well as some years already. That cannot be recovered but you can make your life going forward a lot better; that is your choice ultimately. Make better choices now than the ones you've already made.

I wish it didn't feel so crushing to accept that he simply doesn't give a shit about me
Yes, of course, because you love him and you've invested so much of yourself in this relationship- its a completely natural reaction; a bit like weaning yourself off of a drug. I know it feel like your heart is being ripped out, and I know its a cliche, but it will get easier with time. Please don't let the 'sunk cost fallacy' keep you in a relationship that's making you so deeply unhappy. I imagine if you had found the right counsellor prior to lockdown that would have been a huge help, is there any way you could start again via Skype/Facetime?

And you are failing to protect your children fully because he is in your home. They are all too clearly seeing this man being drunk and actively abusing you into the bargain as well and you are not fully available to them.