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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Trapped in a toxic mess with drinker in denial

164 replies

smokeorfire · 04/08/2020 07:53

It's been going on for years. Every time I think maybe it'll be different but it's not. I feel now like he's just taking the piss out of me, drinking and being vile, then pretending nothing happened. "Why are you making arguments again?", "That was at the weekend, why are you still going on about it?", "So and so drinks just as much as me, go and give them a row."

And when I try and put "rules" in place he tells me, literally, that he doesn't give a fuck.

I feel manipulated, lied to, like I don't know which way is up.

He'll say he loves me, but the level of spite / indifference / contempt when he turns away from me to open another can feels much more real than any love.

I wanted to write this down. I go round in circles with it. I just want him to choose me over the beer, but it's like I'm being unreasonable ("what more do you want from me?") to even expect such a thing. Why? Because I'm 50? Because I'm a nagging bitch?

I don't know anymore.

OP posts:
user1471549213 · 05/08/2020 14:21

I've not rtft but got halfway down, in the nicest possible way he can't choose you over drink, he is an addict. He doesn't see he has a problem, he likes to drink, he will get in a cycle...deink, be abusive, sober up, say it wont happen again or that its not a problem, everything will be grand. This is not true. For the sake of your children I would ask you to tell him to leave. They will be damaged by this behaviour, it is horrendous. My husband suffered this with his parents, got the usual of we arent addicts, everyone drinks, sure x drinks more than us, along with the not so nice comments and abuse. His mother has since passed away...directly drink related and his father is in hospital constantly with various drinking/smoking related issues and still thinks he has no issue even though he was only released from hospital after having covid and straight on the drink. It is a vicious cycle. Please get out of it.

Whatisthisfuckery · 05/08/2020 15:02

Yes OP, I agree with the PP two posts above. I don’t think you can or should bank on the fact that he won’t become violent, especially as there is a high possibility of him being intoxicated.If he doesn’t great, but I think you should proceed on the basis that he will. Not because he definitely will, but because you just don’t know, having never come to this point before with him.It’s far better to be safe than sorry.

you should always plan for the worst case scenario in these situations. It’s far better to think, ‘few, that wasn’t as bad as I thought,’ than, ‘shit, why didn’t I...’

Having a friend or the police beside you when you kick him out will protect you, and it’ll focus his mind if he’s tempted to lash out. He’s far less likely to become violent if there’s somebody with you who is his physical equal or who has the power to arrest.

the police won’t be angry with you if you ask them to be present and he slinks off with his tail between his legs. They’ll understand your reasons for wanting them there and they’ll realize that their presence is a huge deterrent for any nasty business.

Please take on board what we’re saying. Your goal is to make him leave quietly and without any fuss. Do the thing that will give you the best chance of getting that outcome.

backseatcookers · 05/08/2020 15:37

How are you doing today OP?

Original poster
smokeorfire · 05/08/2020 15:45

Thank you a million times for so much generous support, encouragement and connection. And all your very practical, considered advice, straightforward and caring. It is keeping me focused and forcing me to remember that none of this is an isolated, excusable incident.

I can't say how much appreciate your own life stories, too, I know how painful it feels to put into words about what I'm experiencing. Thank you for making it so clear how life with a drinker / abuser / mother with her addictions to that person impacts on childhood and into adult life. None of which can have been easy to write.

Work is relentless today; rereading your words is helping so much. Thank you.

OP posts:
Yeahnahmum · 05/08/2020 15:53

You are not trapped op. Get out of this relationship. For yourself and your kids

Xiaoxiong · 05/08/2020 19:03

Thinking of you OP - how are you this evening? Have you contacted HANF (hard-as-nails-friend) yet?

Original poster
smokeorfire · 05/08/2020 22:58

This evening has been weird. He tried to be nice to me then got angry / aggrieved at my refusal to be "normal" and talked all sorts of shite. I did my best not to get drawn in, though ended up defending myself / going over old, irrelevant ground. I reiterated that he needs to be gone by Friday midday at the latest. No ifs, buts, negotiations. Then I went to see a friend and sat in her restful, emotionally stable flat and tried to focus on being present with her. Feels horrible to come back here.

OP posts:
backseatcookers · 05/08/2020 23:40

Who is going to be present with you tomorrow and on Friday to ensure he leaves by midday?

And what is your plan if he refuses to leave on Friday, even if a friend is with you?

You need to think those things through now so you feel fully prepared to deal with whatever happens on the day.

ClaryFairchild · 06/08/2020 00:56

Stay strong, you can do it. Whenever you feel yourself wavering come onto MN and get strength from everyone on here.

Flowers
AlwaysCheddar · 06/08/2020 07:27

Have you got him bags to pack his stuff in? Get him out tomorrow and call the police if need be. He doesnt care about you, so stop caring about him. Stay strong. Think if the kids. Change the locks.

Heartlake · 06/08/2020 07:39

Haven't RTFT but I HTH.

A relative of my DH's recently died of alcohol-related illness. Early 40s. NOTHING could get him away from the drink - his children, his (ex) partner, his parents, his large and loving family of siblings, some of the best private healthcare / rehab. He was an addict through and through.

Measure your relationship by how it is on a bad day; how you get through the difficult times together. That will tell you whether the glimpses of something better are worthwhile hanging on for.

Do this for yourself, your children. Don't be that mum who put her partner ahead of her children. You can do this and you will be relieved when you have.

Finkelbraun · 06/08/2020 09:07

This is so horrible - he doesn't even pretend to be sad at the loss of the "relationship", he just treats you like an (unpaid) landlady who has a duty to keep him housed and fed no matter how nastily he behaves.

It's not just that he's a drinking alcoholic (although that's more than enough reason to get him gone). It's the fact that he's an utterly selfish, overentitled brat. Nobody deserves to be lumbered with a toxic burden like that.

You deserve so much better, OP. Flowers

DianaT1969 · 06/08/2020 09:32

Stop analysing him. Stop the woe is me stuff. You know the saying, 'Man being led by his dick'. I'm sorry to say that you are the female version. Please stop saying you are being too kind. This isn't kindness. Kindness is looking after an I'll neighbour. You are being taken for a mug and inflicting a toxic atmosphere on your children. This is their role model for future relationships. Honestly, you need to lose the self-pity yesterday. Get him out and start a better future.

LovingLola · 06/08/2020 09:35

Feels horrible to come back here.

Imagine how your children feel. They have no choice except putting up with this shitstorm.

gottastopeatingchocolate · 06/08/2020 09:41

What time are your children due home tomorrow, OP?
What is your plan B if he hasn't gone?

Original poster
smokeorfire · 06/08/2020 10:23

@DianaT1969. You are right. There will be no more toxic environment for my children. He will not be here in their home any more.

OP posts:
Xiaoxiong · 06/08/2020 10:35

That's the spirit! Hold onto that feeling you had in your friend's flat. That feeling of calm restfulness is what YOUR home will be like in less than 24 hours.

You have to make a plan though - you know what they say, fail to plan, plan to fail. I think opening up to your friends, especially HANF to make sure they are present tomorrow, is key. If you were my friend and you sent me a text saying you'd asked him to leave and asking me to be there with you to make sure he actually went, I'd be there in a heartbeat!!

backseatcookers · 06/08/2020 10:53

Sorry to bang on OP but I think it is really important you have a clear plan of action at least in your head for today and tomorrow to get him out as it feels like you're still relying on him sticking to trusting that he will being gone by noon tomorrow but it's obvious that won't happen.

So who is going to be present with you today and tomorrow morning to ensure he leaves by midday?

And what is your plan if he refuses to leave tomorrow, even if a friend is with you?

You need to be ready to call the police with a cool head tomorrow if he won't go.

I'm worried you are going to feel unable to push him using the police tomorrow, so he will still be there, and to avoid a big argument in front of your children you will give him an extra day and he'll stay all weekend and longer - then you will have brought your children back into the same toxic awful environment you wanted them to be free from.

So, what's the plan? What steps can you put in place to make sure there is no option other than him having left your home by noon tomorrow at the latest?

Original poster
smokeorfire · 06/08/2020 11:09

I have been on the phone to womens aid and they are helping advise me. I am going to the locksmiths now. I will not let him be in the house with my children.

OP posts:
Xiaoxiong · 06/08/2020 11:11

you need to be ready to call the police with a cool head tomorrow if he won't go

I agree - also make sure that the friend who will be with you is fully briefed that if he kicks off and you find yourself wavering, they should call the police on your behalf.

backseatcookers · 06/08/2020 11:11

@smokeorfire

I have been on the phone to womens aid and they are helping advise me. I am going to the locksmiths now. I will not let him be in the house with my children.
That's brilliant well done you - you will be so proud of yourself by tomorrow evening - maybe in your head you can also plan a nice dinner you can enjoy with the kids when you're all together and calm back at home tomorrow x
Xiaoxiong · 06/08/2020 11:14

Cross posted - yes OP!! The pom poms are going for you over here. You can do this! Flowers

heyday · 06/08/2020 11:27

He abuses you because you allow him to. You want it to change but it never will. Until you truly, truly want the situation to change it will stay the same. Once you truly, truly want the situation to change then you will end the relationship and start healing yourself. You cannot change him and you never will you can only change YOURSELF. Drink is number 1 in his life and it always will be until HE chooses otherwise.

gottastopeatingchocolate · 06/08/2020 11:35

So glad you have accessed WA.

Can they refer you for some counselling? Get all the support you can. Once he is out, you will probably have a lot of feelings to deal with.

Heffalooomia · 06/08/2020 11:39

It's very sad but it's you or him and you have to choose you
everything he does is designed to maintain the status quo where he gets to drink and you have to enable him
You cannot fix the situation but you are addicted to the dynamic just as much as he is addicted to the alcohol he has engineer this to facilitate his own addiction
Please escape🙏