Trapped in a toxic mess with drinker in denial

[smokeorfire]

It's been going on for years. Every time I think maybe it'll be different but it's not. I feel now like he's just taking the piss out of me, drinking and being vile, then pretending nothing happened. "Why are you making arguments again?", "That was at the weekend, why are you still going on about it?", "So and so drinks just as much as me, go and give them a row."

And when I try and put "rules" in place he tells me, literally, that he doesn't give a fuck.

I feel manipulated, lied to, like I don't know which way is up.

He'll say he loves me, but the level of spite / indifference / contempt when he turns away from me to open another can feels much more real than any love.

I wanted to write this down. I go round in circles with it. I just want him to choose me over the beer, but it's like I'm being unreasonable ("what more do you want from me?") to even expect such a thing. Why? Because I'm 50? Because I'm a nagging bitch?

I don't know anymore.

The underlying belief is that who you are isn’t lovable.

You idealize being loved as a means to self-worth and happiness to the point that you crave it. Your need to be accepted, understood, needed, and loved causes you to be compliant and self-effacing. You conclude, “If you love me, then I’m lovable.” “You” comes to mean just about everyone, including people incapable of love like this alcoholic abuser.

Who is ultimately more important to you here; this man or your children?.

At the very least your children should no longer reside in this house with this man.

Fantastic, insightful post @AttilaTheMeerkat

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for articulating so much, so clearly.

"The underlying belief is that who we are isn’t lovable ..." is, for me, entirely true. it's what i talked about with the counsellor, finding ways to untangle that or at least behave in ways that weren't driven by it.

reality is that the 'strategies' i've used to navigate life, relationships, my connection with myself have failed. and now i've distorted things with my children and who they are to me and to themselves.

i know i've not done anything 'wrong' as far as the police are concerned; i just feel wretched and jangled. intimidated, too, by his power to twist everything.

@backseatcookers the children's father works mix of day and night shifts, so it's tricky (impossible) for them to stay with him for more than a day or two at the moment. i don't want them to be an emotional shield, or to wonder what the hell is going on in their childhood.

but even to myself i sound like i'm making excuses. i want to stop wasting so much time and mental energy dealing with a man to whom i am nothing, who is perfectly happy to trash my children's lives without a twinge of conscience.

You have come a long was emotionally on this thread smokeorfire - you have moved from desperate for him to change, through hopeless and helpless, to a focus and rage to reclaim your DCs childhoods.

Harness that anger energy - take a single small step, then another and another - slowly but firmly.

What are the usual patterns of failure of trying to get him out in the past......what can you do differently this time?

He won’t pack up himself. Don’t look for dramatics/fight. Just pack him a bag of essentials for a week - call him a cab - off to his parents.

Have the rest sent on later.

Block and change locks.

Fill you time with positive, radiant friends who will pull you through.

Who will you call to support you?

What is your first step?

@Sssloou, thank you. i am thinking about patterns, about how to avoid dramatics / fights. they are easy for him to 'win'. he has a car ('our' car, whatever) and friends he can go to. or he can sleep in the car if he must.

every time before he's been so nasty and then doesn't even go. i end up taking sanctuary at the cinema / yoga / work / anywhere till the day is over and i can go home again. that isn't an option now.

i don't know what my first step is. i don't want to even begin to talk about any of this stuff with him anymore. it's so pointless and so depressing.

my children have gone to their dad's for the night. how desperately awful is it that i am pleased for them. and that they are glad to be away.

OP have things ever got physically abusive with this guy? Has he shoved you out the way, barged into you "accidentally on purpose", pushed you, flicked you, yelled in your face, towered over you, used his size to intimidate you or anything similar or is it mostly verbal and gas lighting ?

i don't know what my first step is. i don't want to even begin to talk about any of this stuff with him anymore. it's so pointless and so depressing.

That’s a brilliant first step - you are not going to talk about it with him anymore.

That’s a significant emotional shift. It means you have dropped the rope, detached, disconnected and accepted he won’t change.

Keep that stance. Hold it tight.

The rest is logistics.

So sorry you've found yourself in this situation and I've seen myself first hand how awful living with an addict is.

Firstly with my own mother being a drug and drink addict. Seeing that everyday as a child has damaged me immensely. She also had addicted partners who would abuse her in front of us. And when I got older that abuse then was inflicted on me also. I'd lie in bed as a child listening to the arguments and I'd be crying why oh why doesn't she care that it's hurting ya too.

I then went on to have an abusive relationship myself. You know, low self esteem from not being put first my my mother kinda does that and I was an easy target for an abuser.

I have a sister who's recently left her alcoholic husband. She was trapped as she's disabled and he wouldn't leave. But she knows the damage this relationship was inflicting on her own children and she left.

It's time to put your feelings for this man to one side and think of the long term effects this WILL have on your children who should be your top priority right now.

Next time he becomes nasty just call the police! Tell them you want him removed. Don't put yourself it your children through this anymore x

@HomeTheatreSystem, he doesn't need / dare to be physical to intimidate. he's strong, knows how to threaten without coming near me. i'm not scared he'll hurt me - he won't because he knows what the consequences would be. it's exactly like the drink. he's not out of control at all.

yes, @Sssloou, i am not going to engage with what is entirely his 'stuff' anymore. far better to focus on logistics and holding stances; writing out that paragraph above is beyond hideous.

thank you so much, again.

You sound like such a nice person OP, you really do & I hope you get your life back and enjoy your home again with your DC

Start packing his stuff up. Tell him he needs to leave and would he like you to continue to help packing his stuff...

Any argument etc from him dial 999.

Please have him gone before the DC get back.

Hotels are open there is no reason for him to not go tonight.

Hi OP. I’m another who was married to an alcoholic for too long and agree with everyone else. You have no control over this and you are worth so much more than putting up with the manipulative chaos of an alcoholic.

I totally understand how hard it is to make the decision to end it and go through with it. I see it as having to make things temporarily worse so that you can reach a point where things are so much better ( and they will be).

Have you thought about Alanon? I’m sure it could be helpful to you. Also, have you thought about some counselling to help with your insecurities?

It’s a horrible situation to be in but nothing will change until you change something. He never will because he’s right where he wants to be. Really good luck to you.

I would say the number one thing is to get him out of the house. You know you cave far too easily and he will ramp up hard to keep you under control. I guess that's why you don't want the children present when you boot him out: he will behave badly, you will let him and they will see it.

I reckon you would be best off doing it when they are there, or with their dad outside in the car waiting for them. Have the police warned that you are evicting your alcoholic boyfriend, their are children in the house and you don't expect him to go easily.

Given how scared you are of him and any confrontation is likely to have you come off worst, I'd look to do it so you are stopping him coming back into the house not trying to make him leave it. To do this, get someone to help you ideally, even the kids, and pack up all his stuff into bin bags while he is out. Put them on the doorstep. Change the locks (v cheap and easy to change the barrel of a lock). Message him to say you have had enough of his drinking and he is no longer welcome in your house.

I think, for you both psychologically and physically, it will be easier to KEEP him out than to PUT him out.

Once he is out your mind will start to recover.

Thank you so much for your support and wisdom and understanding, so incredibly generously given, especially stories of your own experiences.

He has come home, trying to be cute with kisses. Actually literally laughing - like someone said, it's one big joke to him.

I told him if his choice was to drink then fine but he could no longer do it in my house.

He said oh right, I've lost my job so now you're chucking me out.

I repeated my line about the drinking.

His answer is that he's going.

By Friday I told him. (I've arranged for children to be with their dad till then.)

So yes, he has calmly and soberly chosen the drink over life with me.

Now I'm sitting in the car wishing it wasn't raining and I could go somewhere.

An addict doesn't stop being an addict when they aren't high. They are thinking even more about the next fix.

He has chosen drink over his life, not just over you.

Don't tell yourself nonsense like he made a calm and sober choice to have drink instead of you. He might not have drunk in the last few hours but that does not make him sober. He is an actively drinking alcoholic. There is no sober. There is drinking now and there is planning the next drink.

What will you do if he is drinking when you get back?

Jeez...you gave him til Friday? I feel sorry for your children, it must be hell for them.

It's great you've said it op but by then leaving to sit in your car and giving him until Friday, don't be surprised if he doesn't take your seriously.

It is your home. YOUR home. And yet you are sat in a car while he sits on your sofa, switches on your telly, gets a beers from your fridge and feel like the most powerful being alive.

Go back in and tell him to go and sit in the car.

He won't go on Friday. You will have to bag his stuff and change the locks. You know this, right?

Why have you given him til Friday when he's finally said yes he will go?

He KNOWS you don't want arguments in front of your children and that's part of the reason you haven't broken up yet.

You've now told him he needs to be gone by the day the kids get back.

So what will happen? Think about it... he will wait til the last minute, not leave, the kids come back and THEN he will refuse to go - he's bought more time because instead of ensuring he is well gone by them, you've given him a deadline he can manipulate.

Or, and I'm concerned this will happen, he'll play nice the next few days, convince you to change your mind and your children will come back to you two playing happy families before it inevitably gets awful again.

You need to be strong now. He has 24/48 hours to be out of the place and you will have a friend staying with you from say Thursday morning so he needs to be gone by then with as much of his stuff as he can take, then you'll organise him collecting anything else from outside afterwards or a third party will bring it to him.

You need to get firm. For your kids. They have no choice about this and have been living with a horrible alcoholic who has been prioritised above them, all while modelling damaging relationship dynamics to them that will affect them the longer they go on.

This all sounds harsh of me because it's serious. This is it now, consciously or subconsciously you are still putting off the hardest bit.

@Nicolastuffedone, please, it is hell for them, yes, but my children are safe with their dad for the next few days.

Well done OP, but please don’t hide away from him. You’ve done the right thing. Even if you don’t quite feel it, hold your head up high, walk back into YOUR house, stand totally firm with what you’ve said. Keep repeating yourself over and over if you need to because he is probably now going to try every trick in the book: promising change that will never happen, the end of drinking (you know it’s not), putting you first from now on (he’s already proved time and again that doesn’t work) etc etc. You know the stuff. Just stand firm.

He may get mean and angry when he realises it isn’t working...hold firm. You have to go through the bad before it can get better.

Personally I think hiding is a good idea. Stay out of his way until Friday morning when he goes.

I just want him to choose me over the beer

He never will. And it's not 'just' the drink anyway- he's a classic abusive man.

Are you in the UK? 'Your' yoga studio will be open and your counsellor will probably be seeing clients again- try giving her a ring to see what's happening or get an idea of when she's starting up again.

But don't use these things to help you carry on living with the situation for longer than you otherwise would.

End it now.

There has been shouting, protests of his innocence, calling me a bitch. I shouted back, then tried to be reasonable. Pure shitshow.

I've just had to lug overflowing glass recycling box out. In case neighbours were in any doubt.

Sorry, I can't say anything sensible or respond coherently. But I am standing firm. And, inconsequentially, will email yoga studio tomorrow.

Thank you so much for listening and helping so much today. I will not let my children down any more.