Trapped in a toxic mess with drinker in denial

[smokeorfire]

It's been going on for years. Every time I think maybe it'll be different but it's not. I feel now like he's just taking the piss out of me, drinking and being vile, then pretending nothing happened. "Why are you making arguments again?", "That was at the weekend, why are you still going on about it?", "So and so drinks just as much as me, go and give them a row."

And when I try and put "rules" in place he tells me, literally, that he doesn't give a fuck.

I feel manipulated, lied to, like I don't know which way is up.

He'll say he loves me, but the level of spite / indifference / contempt when he turns away from me to open another can feels much more real than any love.

I wanted to write this down. I go round in circles with it. I just want him to choose me over the beer, but it's like I'm being unreasonable ("what more do you want from me?") to even expect such a thing. Why? Because I'm 50? Because I'm a nagging bitch?

I don't know anymore.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Can I ask about your question , "Was a parent an alcoholic too?"

Is this why we accept more of this behaviour in our lives?

I once had a partner who sounds similar to OPs, in some ways, I also had a parent that was as you describe.

I have now been single for 7 years, I think we have to learn to love ourselves first OP.

You deserve much much better, and that doesn't have to be from someone, be kind to yourself.

@AttilaTheMeerkat, my parents are as far from alcoholics as you could get. none of this is to do with what they taught me or who they are. i so much don't want to damage or hurt my children. my lack of selfhood feels like the enemy, my longing for love in the face of sheer indifference. i know his primary relationship has never been with me, never mind the drink, he'll openly defend his right to turn to other women when he feels like it. i doubt everything about who i am and what i'm worth. but in truth nothing has 'happened to me'; it's just my own shabby insecurities and fears.

@Wildwood6, thank you. it does feel like my heart is being ripped out, crushed, trampled on, all of it. i can't believe i am here at 50 feeling like this. it is a rubbish way to exist, and a terrible way to be a parent however hard i try. my counsellor was brilliant, but she's not able to do 'remote' counselling. i miss her and i miss 'my' yoga studio beyond measure.

You’ve learned somewhere along the line that you’re not allowed to have boundaries, that other people’s feelings are more important than your own.

You want love and regard from someone incapable of giving it to you, it just reinforces your sense of worthlessness. He sees you as the thing that gets in the way of what he really wants, to be in a relationship with alcohol.

Please get him out of your life, don’t let him do this to you.

OP how old are your children?

And Fanthorpe s reply is why I asked you what you learnt about relationships when you were growing up

Will you consider contacting al-anon op?

I wish it didn't feel so crushing to accept that he simply doesn't give a shit about me

Well at some level it doesn’t matter if he does or he doesn’t. He’s an alcoholic so he will put the drink before you anyway.

If you start trying to work out whether he’s nice deep down or a bastard deep down you will drive yourself mad. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who he’d be if he wasn’t drinking, because he is drinking. You can’t make this work.

You are not trapped. You can tell him to go.

It's your children who are trapped, witnessing this dysfunctional relationship and alcoholism (oh yes they are) and learning that this is what relationships and adulthood should be like.

Sorry to be so harsh. This is obviously very hard for you. But for everyone's sake, you need to wise up to this situation.

@smokeorfire yes you will feel like that, please don't beat yourself up for it, its a very normal, human response. I'm glad counselling was helpful. Try searching the Therapist Directory on the BACP website for 'online'- a list of counsellors come up who provide this service, and the bonus is you'll be able to pick anyone from anywhere in the country that you like the look of. Link here: BACP. Whilst you're unable to see you regular counsellor I'm sure you'll be able find someone just as fantastic. Good luck, you can do this.

@Fanthorpe, i have learned this and it was one of the things i talked with my counsellor about a lot. people bully me, see me as someone they can back into a corner (indeed as someone who will just go and out herself there).

@AttilaTheMeerkat, this is difficult to talk about. i feel like i'm making excuses for myself. i have a minor (but visible) physical 'deformity' which meant i was bullied a lot as a child. i want people to like me, to be kind to me and i am stupidly loyal and faithful to people who are. now, as an adult, i have some brilliant friends who (tellingly) i've had for decades. but still, 'romantically', i let myself be chosen and however bad that person might be i still persevere.

put herself there.

@GoldenOmber. what you say about it doesn't matter who he would be if he wasn't drinking is exactly it. he tells me what a nice guy he is, how everybody likes him (they do, he's right) and he is very likeable / attractive / easy company etc. but he drinks and when he drinks he'll be, as you say, a bastard - to me. then say it i should forget about it, and anyway i annoyed him so what do i expect.

but that is a stupid, distracting, toxic circle.

@Finkelbraun, you're not being harsh, your words are absolutely true. i thought earlier how my children must wish they could be rescued, how they must sometimes dread being in this house (they are with their dad half the time). i am wise to the situation, but can't seem to act on that wisdom. i know how pathetic that sounds.

@Wildwood6, i hadn't thought to look for a remote counsellor, but will try that. thank you so much for the link. and your kind words.

OP, I used to be married to an alcoholic.

There are a few facts here that will hurt to realise, but you’ll never move forward without them.

His primary relationship is with drink.

It doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do, he will still drink.

He will not stop drinking until the consequences of his drinking become so unbearable that giving up the drink makes itself clear to be the better option.

He will never come to that realisation while you’re with him, providing food and shelter, looking after him, supporting him, providing a comfortable space where he can indulge his relationship with drink.

Your children are seeing everything. They’re seeing him drinking all the time, they’re seeing you putting up with it, they’re seeing him be rude and disrespectful to you.

Because your children see all these things every day it is normal to them.

The things they consider normal are the things they will default to when they are adults, because with normality comes comfort and security, even when that comfort and security is harmful to them.

OP this situation will never improve because of two indisputable and immovable reasons.

1. He is an alcoholic. No matter what you do or say, however hard you wish, however hard you try, however much you cry and plead and beg with him to stop, he is an alcoholic.There is literally nothing you can possibly do or say that will change it, or convince him to change.

1. You are enabling him. Moaning and pleading and begging will not work, and while you persist with things that do not work you are letting the situation continue. Asking a rock to get out of your way is not going to shift it. Unless you move it yourself it will remain in your way for ever.

I know this is hard OP, I’ve been there, and I know you feel responsible for him, like he would get worse if you kicked him out, but look at all the above. What is more important in your life, his ability to drink in comfort or you and your childrens’ right to a secure and happy home?

Can you tell him to go and stay with a parent, or a friend? At least if you can get him out of your hair for a bit you’ll have a bit of time and space to think it through.

I really hope you have the strength to kick him out.

He is destroying you and the DC.

He is an alcoholic and you deserve better.

@Whatisthisfuckery, thank you. i understand everything you say. and especially about my children. i am sitting here, trying to work, trying not to cry. i wish he would do the decent thing, but he won't. i don't want to enable him. often i just ignore him and get on with my stuff, take care of my children. but it is a horrible way to live. i'm not coherent, sorry.

I can only agree with what everyone else has said. I was married to an alcoholic. I was mired in co-dependency too. It took me 6.5 years of things gradually getting worse before I drew a line and said 'no more'. I stayed far too long, not because of low self esteem but because for some reason I felt a need to look after him.

Tough times followed but I am now single and happy with my two DDs - but they are still recovering from the things he did in addiction. Your DC will be the same. Look after yourself, look after them, cut this man out of your life.

What is stopping you telling him to leave?

It's your home in your name and he has no right to live there.

He is an alcoholic and this is a progressive disease. He was on this downward trajectory before he met you in what ever relationships he has been in the past and he will continue in that direction whether you keep him in your home or he moves on to someone else.

It has nothing to do with you - how wonderful / beautiful / pathetic or plain you are. Look at Amber Herd / Johnny Depp and the millions of others hooked up to an addict.

You are just the facilitator - housing, feeding, cleaning this slug so that he can indulge and immerse himself even deeper in more comfort into his addiction - because he has someone out front mowing a path and the same person coming up the rear with a dust pan and brush to clear up and hide the mess he leaves in his alcoholic squalor.

You need to understand alcoholism and know that he will never change and you will become more depleted and drained as life goes on.

If you are such a people pleaser (I disagree with this terminology - because really you are trying to please yourself and get strokes from people you help out)......why not focus on pleasing your DCs - because currently this situation will likely have dire consequences for their behaviour as children and develop into chronic MH issues in adulthood. Take a look at the AdultChildrenofAlcholics website to see what’s in store for them.

They are living in a home polluted with addiction and domestic / emotional abuse. They are tip toeing around this thug and watching their DM choose to give her finite headspace, time and energy to this addict rather than focus on their emotional development (which is likely in deficit if their family has separated).

If you are unable to pick yourself up from being a doormat - then don’t let him wipe his shitty abusive shoes on your DCs childhood. Get him gone - do it for them.

Is he a repeat cheater also?

It’s a waste of time trying to control an addiction with “rules”.

It’s plain silly to put up with this because he’s “beautiful” and younger than you.

Worst of all, it’s shitty parenting to inflict this on your DC. Give yourself a shake and start making arrangements to get him out. Does he have parents who he could stay with temporarily?

i wish he would do the decent thing, but he won't.

YOU need to do the decent thing for your DCs. Will you? This is a question they will be asking themselves - they will soon choose to move in with their Dad and when they are adults they will likely judge you harshly for choosing to blight their childhood with this individual.

As someone coming out the other side of this, it will be hard for the first few weeks & months. But I promise in 6 months time the peace, calm and serenity (and greatly improved bank balance) you will achieve will be so worth it. Reread this post when you are feeling down and wondering if you did the right thing - remind yourself of how you are feeling right now - you will never want to go back there.

If you won’t get rid of this useless article ( beautiful my arse) for yourself get rid of him for your children’s sake.
He’s not going to stop drinking, he doesn’t love you, he’ll never love you just because you want him too, and he is damaging your children.

OP, This is necessarily harsh and I know it’ll hurt to hear, and hurt even more when you realise it, but, you are enabling him. You’re enabling him to continue to drink consequence free, you are enabling him to remain in your house and make you and your DC miserable, and you are enabling a situation that will be damaging to your DC.

The fact that you just ignore him and get on with it is enabling him to also get on with it. What does he want? To get on with it in comfort and unimpeded.

What you’re actually doing is exactly what he wants. Think about it, if your first and most important goal in life is to have your next drink, what could be better than living in a house where somebody looks after you, pays the bills so you’re free to spend your money on drink, and be ignored so you can just get on with it. Wouldn’t we all like to live in a situation where we were provided for and left to our own devices to do as we pleased? If I had a living situation like that I wouldn’t want to do anything to upset the apple cart, would you?

People do what works for them and they have no need or desire to change it, why would they?

He lives in your house, spends his money on drink and you let him do it. That works for him, it works very well for him. Does this work for you? Does it work for your kids?

There are three people in your house who have a serious issue with the current situation, only one of whom has the power to change it.

Dear god woman give your head a slap. What on earth do you think you are playing at? All this navel gazing and reflecting on your sense of self, do you not think you need to get rid of the idiot and start focusing on your bloody kids?

I’m sorry I know everyone is being supportive here but it feels like you are turning yourself inside out to justify why you’ve kept hold of this prick. When simply you just prioritise yourself and him above your kids because you care about him and yourself more. That’s it really, plain and simple and it’s wrong. Sort yourself out.