Men are not born to believe they are superior so what is going wrong to create so many abusers?

[Fightingback16]

Bit of a large assumption but even if you look on here there are so many women being abused.

In my example it was my ex husbands fathers doing as he was abusive.

Why are so many men narcissistic what is going so wildly wrong out there. How are mothers (And the rest of the family) raising sons to be so damaged?

“ No, there's no difference brain wise”

Categorically false. It is even entirely possible to determine gender from brain imaging, to a reasonable degree of accuracy.

@RantyAnty You're right, those are emotions but they are allowed within the strict masculine gender box. Rage, anger, aggression - is hardly a spectrum of healthy human emotions. The rest is manipulation to get what they want - thought manipulation was a female stereotype.

@Dissimilitude absolute bull shit. Proof please.

Physical maybe but not the roles I guess of that gender, are men born to be “hunters”, are women born to be mothers and have a particular brain to do this? Wow this sounds complicated.

@Fightingback16

Do men and women have actual differences in the brain?

None at all, apart from men's brains being slightly larger in relation to their bigger physical size.

@namechange12a which emotions do you see are missing?

Wtf OP?
How is that related to your question about abuse?
Abusers learn how to do it. They aren't born with a brain like it. Man or woman, they learn. Usually from another abuser. That's why people say text book with their behaviour. They all have the same learnt behaviour.

No, there's no such thing as 'mummy' brain either. The brain is constantly changing it's called neural plasticity, societal rules determine how a brain works and how a human behaves.

@RantyAnty apart from rage?

Fear, sadness, loneliness. Hardly associated with being a big, tough man in society.

There are a lot of research papers of theories on rapists and it's noticeable how in communities where it's highly stigmatized to be a victim, victims are routinely silenced and have little opportunity to leave, and little happens to perpetrators beyond occasional mob justice, there are more rapes even knowing only a tiny fraction are reported. Seeing that you can get away with something, not having any social disincentives to not something, that's often enough for horrible acts to happen. We can come up with biological theories, I think they do play a part, but I don't think in trying to reduce it that trying to pick that apart is anymore helpful than trying to find a biological part of why some mother's kill their young. We know it happens across many animal species, but looking at behavioural and environmental factors will probably help us more (unless we're going to try selective breeding or working towards behavioral genetic modification and all the issues, and I'm still not sure it would be the best way to manage it).

Also, not all who survived child abuse become abusers and not all who are abusers were abused themselves, so saying your ex was abusive because his father was is both inaccurate and throwing a lot of nonabusive survivors under the bus. Parents are an ever shrinking part of the pie and putting the burden to fix everyone on mothers' shoulders has never done much good.

@SoulofanAggron

Patriarchy. It gives them a sense of ownership and entitlement which justifies their behaviour to them.

This. And if they don't justify their behaviour themselves a lot of other people, men and women, will do it for them.

I've met loads of men who have gone on about how lonely they are.

Usually trying to get a pity fuck.

[quote namechange12a]@Dissimilitude absolute bull shit. Proof please.[/quote]
www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/study-finds-some-significant-differences-brains-men-and-women#:~:text=The%20largest%20study%20to%20look,men%20had%20higher%20brain%20volume.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences#:~:text=Males%20and%20females%20differ%20in,not%20to%20be%20sexually%20differentiated.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2019.00185/full 93% accuracy when images of brain locations were ran through a classifier - "Using our 3D PCNN methods on the whole-brain FA images, we can well-distinguish men and women with the classification accuracy of 93.3%. This result is much better than using the SVM, whose classification accuracy is only 78.2%."

www.pnas.org/content/111/2/823

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6041980/

You really have to be willfully ignorant to claim there are "no differences in male and female brains".

To pre-empt the inevitable straw man, I'm saying nothing more than that there are detectable, measurable differences in male and female brains in both size, structure and activation patterns. I make zero claim about knowing whether this has any relevant to anything else, I'm just rejecting your claim of zero difference.

My MIL seems to think that women should wait on men hand and foot, their careers are more important than the womans, the man should sit at the head of the table at dinner and all that bollocks, luckily my DH is not like that at all, although when the PILs come for dinner FIL always tries to sit at the head of the table as if he's in charge...I make him sit down the side, I know it shouldn't bother me and it's petty but it feels like he's trying to assert his authority in my house but I'm not having any of it.

Sorry, I meant to add that some women from previous generations were taught that men are more important than women, hopefully it's dying out now.

To pre-empt the inevitable straw man

You mean the actual point of the argument - yes there may be biological differences such as a larger brain, but there is no discernable proof of anything else regarding behaviour as this is learned and ever changing.

Apologies for any offense caused by the post.

The point I am making is there is a balance. In the same way men accuse women of various things, the reverse is true.

There is still inequality, but it is very clear women have significantly greater influence and equality than even 10yrs ago. With increased power comes responsibility.

A patriarchal society didnt use 'power' to protect women and place them as equals. I agree entirely with that.

A matriarchal society likewise shouldnt fall into the trap that women are superior to men, otherwise whats the point? What are the safeguards in place?

We run the risk of gender wars.

Yes I agree it has no bearing on whether people become abusive or not and I’ve gone off on a tangent with that one.

The question asked in the OP was how are families raising sons to be so damaged? I think this is a really important question. Lots of men do exhibit narcissistic traits. Yes we live in a patriarchy, but what can parents do with their sons now to improve this in the next generation. My earlier point was to teach boys that it’s OK to feel sad, lonely, frightened, heartbroken, and to learn to self-soothe. Instead of expressing all their emotions as anger. As someone raised by an angry father who went on to marry an angry husband and who had a son, I’m interested in other views on this.

I am under the impression that people who have been hurt hurt others.
I mean no offence as I have absolutely no experience or examples but on the majority of occasions do people who come from loving, nurturing families not become abusive, without having an existing mental illness?

I only use my husbands example because I'm pretty sure his father had a large part in moulding his abusive mind. Not everyone will have my particular story. His parents also both worked full time and he spent a lot of time on his own as a young boy roaming around the streets

His mother also having left that relationship did nothing to help her son understand what had happened. She assumed he was a strong 18 year old boy, he was not!

Not all people who have hurt, hurt others.
People can break the cycle.

@namechange12a

I wasn't actually engaging with anything other than your (false) claim that there are no brain differences. You'd have been on stronger ground if you'd stated there were no relevant brain differences, but you suggested that my point was "absolute bullshit".

Anyway, this is rather irrelevant to the OPs discussion, and verging on pedantry on my part, so I'll bow out.

No not all hurt people hurt others but this thread is about those people who do hurt others.

Er ok.
You said you were under the impression that people who hurt, hurt others......
I said that to alter your impression..
Where is this thread going?