Just expressed to DH that no, he can't take DCs for a walk whilst on holiday.

[Spatime]

Sat here crying at this situation.
We're on holiday and I'm unwell (stomach related). DH has said he's going to take our 2 almost 3 and almost 5 year old DCs for a walk.
I nodded and got back in bed, before a wave of panic came over me. He can't actually watch them when we're somewhere different. Every family day trip, outing so far has been me keeping the kids safely in tow whilst DH stares, dreamily at the landscape, the sea, the mountains. Each time I turn away for a few seconds to get something out of my bag, one DC is on the loose, or wandering off in the distance, unnoticed by DH who continues to watch the boats go by.
He is a complete dreamer and appears to walk around in a daze. He's much better if he's somewhere he knows well, afterall he has to watch them for one day a week whilst I work, although he often takes his mum along with him if he takes them out which is comforting.
The way I feel hadn't really dawned on me, other than feeling irritable when we're all out together and I'm watching the kids and saying "come here" "no don't do that" etc etc whilst DH is in a daze.
DH is very sheltered I think and is unaware that bad things happen in the world and that there are bad people out there and you have to keep your young kids close.
I probably am a little overprotective- I anticipate plenty of responses telling me this is my problem and my anxiety (to a degree perhaps) but genuinely, DH is always in a complete dream world. Friends and family comment on this a lot. It's nice to be with someone so Zen, but this hugely impacts my trust for him when it comes to the children. A year ago, I thought about leaving him (other reasons) and I'm thinking now that my trust for him when the kids are in his care partly held me back.

I'm saddened that I've just had to explain to him that, no, I don't want you to take DCs for a walk to a new harbour that we haven't been to before. He's asked me why not and I've told him why. He looked very hurt before shutting the door and walking out of the room. I can hear that they are still in the apartment so I don't think he's taken them, but I feel really upset at the conversation I've felt I've needed to have with him and also at the revelation, that actually, I don't trust him to look after the children when he's somewhere new.
I'm expecting responses to include me being "controlling" but I'd love nothing more than to be able to lie here, relax and concentrate on myself whilst the DCs have a lovely day with a fully engaged other-parent.

Poor DH his self esteam must be rock bottom . If someone is constantly told there useless they believe it and feel that they are it's abusive.

He is behaving this way because you have allowed it. If you change he will change. Let him take his own kids out he will know his in charge and be different I’m sure Hope you get well soon x

or did the DH give his wife an opportunity to relax when they were all out?

Genuine question - and obviously for the OP - do you honestly believe that they spend all day at home when you work? That they never, ever leave the house during the time they have together without you?

My cousin was a little like this - and her H just disengaged whilst they were out because she would completely take over. It came to a head when she has to suddenly go into hospital and was there for a week. When she came home, the kids were still in one piece, clean and fed. House was tidy and laundry up to date. Things weren't as she would have done them, but she conceded afterwards that what she'd believe to be incompetence, was actually him doing things differently - sometimes not quite as good as what she'd like, but done nonetheless. Net result is that she's eased up and doesn't feel like the bad cop parent all the time, he's stepped up as he feels more confident and not like an inept fool, and everyone's happier for it.

It may be that OP's H is completely inept and untrustworthy outside. But I find it difficult to believe that he's never once taken an almost 3 and almost 5 y/o out on his own without her, whilst she's been at work. I think it's more likely that they've gone out, been fine, and he's not told her because it would trigger a tsunami of questions, instructions and micro-management.

It’s not great but apparently all his friends were the same and dads that took more care of dcs and didn’t go ombré golf trips were laughed at. It’s still a men’s world for many. Perhaps women should stop having children? Or maybe earn every penny and do all the childcare? That’s a thankless task too!

I don't see why women need to stop having children, they could just stop having children with absolute twats?

She says in the OP that he’s much better if he’s somewhere he knows well, and it’s only when they’re somewhere different that he doesn’t seem to be watching them.

So when he announces that he is not going to allow OP to leave the house on her own with the children because he thinks her overbearing anxiety and over protectiveness is psychologically damaging them and holding back their normal development, how’s that going to go down with everyone? I can certainly imagine a lot of support on here for a man asking whether he is being unreasonable to forbid his wife to leave the house on her own with their children...

It would be so obviously unreasonable it’s almost laughable, and yet you actually have a reasonable number of posters on here nodding along with the OP and saying “yes, yes, that’s fine, don’t let him leave the house with his kids”!!

It would be so obviously unreasonable it’s almost laughable, and yet you actually have a reasonable number of posters on here nodding along with the OP and saying “yes, yes, that’s fine, don’t let him leave the house with his kids”!!
True.
Everyone knows in reality there's some overgrown man children who are lazy and there's some women who have to have things done their way so nag and become overbearing. On here it sometimes seems that the first group of men are apparently everywhere and the second group of women don't really exist because they just don't.

So when he announces that he is not going to allow OP to leave the house on her own with the children because he thinks her overbearing anxiety and over protectiveness is psychologically damaging them and holding back their normal development, how’s that going to go down with everyone?

Well it would depend on whether her overbearing anxiety and overprotective was actually were a problem, wouldn’t it?

Am unclear on how so many people are 100% confident that this dad is totally fine at watch the children, despite the only evidence we have about him being the OP saying he’s not. Maybe she’s overreacting, but jumping straight to “you are definitely overreacting OP how unfair and controlling of you” based on nothing at all seems a bit of a stretch.

I think you've had a range of advice here to take into consideration. One thing to say is that if other people have remarked that he is dreamy and 'not there', then I can see why you also find this an issue.

It's difficult because both your parenting styles are very important to a child. The problem is is that he is maybe too relaxed. You have to watch them like a hawk when it comes to any bodies of water or near rocks & cliffs. My mother certainly watched us like a hawk when we went into shops, making sure we were well behaved and didn't touch expensive things.

Have you considered that your parenting styles are so different to each other that you both might be overcompensating which might be making the situation worse? He might be dreamy, but one thing that's more important is intention, self-awareness and values - if he doesn't see the obvious value of being more watchful over your children, then he's simply not going to be motivated to do it. I'd be interested to know what kind of conversations you've had about all this when it's just the two of you and the kids are in bed.

I think it depends on the OPs anxiety. If this is the only thing she is anxious about and is otherwise laid back, then there may be something there. If she catastrophizes everything and this is an example of that, then there's a problem.

I agree that he doesn't need permission to take his own children for a walk and I'm wondering what is up with a grown man who wanders around without noticing what's going on. Has he walked in front of cars for example or fallen off a platform because he just kept walking?

Mothers can ruin their children's development with constant hovering and children can pick up anxiety and become terribly anxious and afraid. I know a family at the extreme end of the scale and they all live at home in their 50s, have never married or had children and their mother hasn't gone away in thirty years in case they need anything. That's absolutely extreme but it's an example of what some people are like.

On the other hand, I was walking down the road and saw a child who was about six run in front of a lorry. Her mother was in a dream and the child just darted in the road. Luckily the lorry driver swerved and the child was ok but that was the mother's fault as she's in charge of that child.

It really depends on context.

Are people also (deliberately?) not taking into account that even other people in their lives notice how spacey her husband is? His coworker even pointed it out and that person only seems to see the husband in the office, not in the context of child rearing.

Based on that alone, I would say the OP has some cause for her anxiety but maybe not all of it. @Spatime would it be possible to ask your husband to take them for a walk but not by the harbour? Maybe he can go to an area of the resort / town where you’ve been before so he’ll be more focused and attentive?

I'm watching the kids and saying "come here" "no don't do that" etc etc whilst DH is in a daze

This is pretty telling. I never felt the need to nag my kid like this. It sounds as if DH just tunes out. I probably would too because it would be that or just lose my shit and snap “For God’s sake just shut up and get off their backs for a minute”.

I can’t believe the number of people who “won’t let” their spouses do things. I wouldn’t put up with it for a moment, especially if I’d already earnt my stripes with a day’s childcare every week.

He won't learn if you don't trust him. Who made you his mum anyway?

To be honest, I'd take the "everbody comments on it all the time!" thing with a pinch of salt.
Why would they? Especially a work colleague. I'd find it truly bizarre if that had really happened.

If he is unable to watch them, then he needs to have both of them on reins whilst he stares at the landscape.

I have some sympathy with OP as my dad is like this, a friendly, gentle person who is also entirely self-absorbed. Once I ended up with heatstroke because he got chatting with a really interesting guy in a shop and forgot he'd left me in the car.

If he truly is like this, then you may well be better off without him. My mum spent her life fixing things and picking them up after him, with the result that he looked relaxed, she looked uptight and now is bitter.

In the short term, can you keep the older one in with you watching TV while he takes one for a walk and swaps over? Then have a good dual discussion about how to make this work in future.

JingsMahBucket
Being a bit spacey doesn't mean he's a danger to the children though.

Personally, it sounds like a perfect storm and it's a vicious cycle. The OP to be sounds quite uptight always saying 'come here, do that' and being on at the kids; if my DH did that it would drive me up the wall quickly. Her DH is more chilled out and zones out. The issue is that he never gets an opportunity to intervene because the OP sounds like she's so on at the kids that a situation doesn't happen where he would step in. Equally, she sees him not stepping in as proof that he is incapable and is a liability.
It sounds like they have different parenting styles. She's quite happy to leave him with DC a day a week so he's clearly not incompetent.

Some communication would probably fix it.

“Well it would depend on whether her overbearing anxiety and overprotective was actually were a problem, wouldn’t it? “

Man refusing his wife permission to leave the house with her own children? I don’t think we’d be scratching our chins pondering on whether it might be reasonable, we’d be too busy hammering the Y,A,B,V,U keys on our keyboards!!

Not if the reason given was that she never watched them when out and was planning on taking them to a harbour. I think most would say safety comes first.

@Bluegrass

“Well it would depend on whether her overbearing anxiety and overprotective was actually were a problem, wouldn’t it? “

Man refusing his wife permission to leave the house with her own children? I don’t think we’d be scratching our chins pondering on whether it might be reasonable, we’d be too busy hammering the Y,A,B,V,U keys on our keyboards!!

Would ‘we’, really? I think a lot of people would want to know why the hypothetical dad was saying such an extreme thing to the hypothetical mum before hammering out anything.

But I don’t find these weird Mumsnet “imagine if it was a man saying this and also the situation was different” thought experiments to be massively useful anyway.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Not if the reason given was that she never watched them when out and was planning on taking them to a harbour. I think most would say safety comes first.

Op doesn't know he doesn't watch them when he's in sole charge because she isn't there (obviously). He has clearly managed it before, she even admits this in her op.

Yes, but in an environment that's familiar.
Where children's safety is concerned, it's better to be over cautious than not cautious enough. For me, it doesn't make any difference whether we are talking about the mum or the dad.

It depends if there are fast flowing rivers/ sinkholes from old mines - if it's just a wood then I'd say that's fine. DCs can shout loudly if they want to and would soon be found if they got lost.Much safer that a walk along streets to the park imv.

@LolaSmiles

JingsMahBucket Being a bit spacey doesn't mean he's a danger to the children though.

Personally, it sounds like a perfect storm and it's a vicious cycle. The OP to be sounds quite uptight always saying 'come here, do that' and being on at the kids; if my DH did that it would drive me up the wall quickly. Her DH is more chilled out and zones out. The issue is that he never gets an opportunity to intervene because the OP sounds like she's so on at the kids that a situation doesn't happen where he would step in. Equally, she sees him not stepping in as proof that he is incapable and is a liability.
It sounds like they have different parenting styles. She's quite happy to leave him with DC a day a week so he's clearly not incompetent.

Some communication would probably fix it.

I agree with this.

Have you any evidence that he's let the kids be in danger when they're in his sole care? Or does he just zone out when you're there since you're already keeping them on a tight rein. At face value, you are being worryingly controlling, arguably to a level that's abusive.

I'm not getting the responses that " It sounds like you have three children! He's probably a lazy man child, thinks childcare is women's work" blah bah

A lazy man child wouldn't keep two under 5's entertained while his wife was in bed ill or say "Right We're off out for the afternoon, you can rest here" to his wife.

A lazy man child would laze about being childish, saying things like I can't find the children's shoes and coats, what will they eat? Can you get up and look after them and so on!