Just expressed to DH that no, he can't take DCs for a walk whilst on holiday.

[Spatime]

Sat here crying at this situation.
We're on holiday and I'm unwell (stomach related). DH has said he's going to take our 2 almost 3 and almost 5 year old DCs for a walk.
I nodded and got back in bed, before a wave of panic came over me. He can't actually watch them when we're somewhere different. Every family day trip, outing so far has been me keeping the kids safely in tow whilst DH stares, dreamily at the landscape, the sea, the mountains. Each time I turn away for a few seconds to get something out of my bag, one DC is on the loose, or wandering off in the distance, unnoticed by DH who continues to watch the boats go by.
He is a complete dreamer and appears to walk around in a daze. He's much better if he's somewhere he knows well, afterall he has to watch them for one day a week whilst I work, although he often takes his mum along with him if he takes them out which is comforting.
The way I feel hadn't really dawned on me, other than feeling irritable when we're all out together and I'm watching the kids and saying "come here" "no don't do that" etc etc whilst DH is in a daze.
DH is very sheltered I think and is unaware that bad things happen in the world and that there are bad people out there and you have to keep your young kids close.
I probably am a little overprotective- I anticipate plenty of responses telling me this is my problem and my anxiety (to a degree perhaps) but genuinely, DH is always in a complete dream world. Friends and family comment on this a lot. It's nice to be with someone so Zen, but this hugely impacts my trust for him when it comes to the children. A year ago, I thought about leaving him (other reasons) and I'm thinking now that my trust for him when the kids are in his care partly held me back.

I'm saddened that I've just had to explain to him that, no, I don't want you to take DCs for a walk to a new harbour that we haven't been to before. He's asked me why not and I've told him why. He looked very hurt before shutting the door and walking out of the room. I can hear that they are still in the apartment so I don't think he's taken them, but I feel really upset at the conversation I've felt I've needed to have with him and also at the revelation, that actually, I don't trust him to look after the children when he's somewhere new.
I'm expecting responses to include me being "controlling" but I'd love nothing more than to be able to lie here, relax and concentrate on myself whilst the DCs have a lovely day with a fully engaged other-parent.

I am a bit of a day dreamer but I am capable of looking after DS and DH has never suggested otherwise. I would be devastated if he did.

Staring out of the window in work does not equal a bad parent

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

I don't really understand the "why would you have a second child with him?" posts - the children are only 2 years apart, so the first would only have been max 15m old when the OP fell pg with no.2 - at this stage, it's not immediately obvious that the other parent isn't that crash hot at taking notice and care of 2 kids on his own!

YANBU to want him to take them out to an unknown harbour area, OP.
He could maybe have taken them somewhere else, without deep water. I wouldn't have been happy in your situation either.

My DH has had a few close shaves with DS1 in his time - luckily he learns from each situation but seems unable to apply that learning to a different situation. DS1 has been very lucky to survive some of the incidents - in different circumstances, he might not have (Falling through the unzipped net around the trampoline headfirst onto concrete - hurt his chin, nothing else. Being taken "swimming" with grandma in the lake, she lost her footing, luckily DH turned in time to see DS1 only above the water, as she was under it by then - he had to dive in to rescue them. These are the main 2, there are other lesser ones)

Really? It's incredibly obvious at that stage. It's obvious as soon as the child is weaning, in my opinion (ie the other parent can do every aspect of parenting minus breastfeeding if that is applicable).

If the (in this case) dad is actively changing nappies, preparing meals and snacks, taking them out on their own, bathing them, doing bedtime and so on, the chances of them suddenly being incapable are slim. However, if the dad isn't doing these things often, either through choice (so a lazy parent, which this one doesn't seem to be because a lazy parent wouldn't actively offer to take the kids out when sitting in is an option), or isn't given a chance to (ie the mum is always there doing everything, helicoptering over both the kids and dad and nitpicking any attempts he makes), well he isn't going to be too good at it, is he?

It's all too easy to jump straight into the 'blame the man' scenario. OP would have given us genuine examples of him being a shitty parent to bolster her argument. It appears she doesn't actually have any other than him daydreaming, which, last time I checked, isn't exactly against the law.

I think it's a pretty safe bet in this circumstance to assume one of two scenarios in which today's scandal has played out. OP either wanted two kids and ignored the fact her husband is useless with the kids, and as a result has spent, and will spend, the rest of her time with him compensating for his shitty parenting, OR, he is actually a fairly sensible parent but isn't as ridiculously overbearing as she is, and she can't let go. Both of these are ultimately on her, unfortunately.

If it was just the location that was an issue, it would have been very easily resolved with a simple 'honey, I think it's a bit risky going there with both of them and one of you, just incase one of them takes off. Is there anywhere else you'd like to go exploring with them? We can go to the harbour together tomorrow so we can have one kid each and not be stressing?' But, no. She told him off like he was a three year old and essentially grounded him and both kids, so everyone has to sit in the house being bored because overbearing mum can't let the three of them out of her sight.

It's controlling behaviour and isn't okay.

I assume he has parental responsibility so you have no grounds at all to say he can't take his own children for a walk.

You are trying to parent an adult. It’s not on. Let go!

Is it the case that you have helped create this problem.
You watch the kids so he doesn't take full responsibility so you don't trust him.

He is their parent too.

It is often when there is more than one adult looking after kids that something happens because no one is clear who actually is watching the kids, everyone assumes that someone will be and no one is.

If he has sole resposiblity without anyone else's I'm sure he'll be fine.

You need to relax control

If I was your husband I would honestly be so hurt by your attitude and words I would be re evaluating the marriage. You've managed to treat him like a moron this far but he will eventually meet someone who has faith in him.

Then he will be doing a lot more than a walk to the harbour on his own with them. And you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Some big leaps here. Maybe they both wanted to dc and since there's only 2 or 3 years between the kids, maybe it wasn't apparent that DH isn't on the ball until they were both past the buggy stage and needing closer supervision when out.

It's possible for a parent to be good at some aspects of parenting, but not others. He may be great with feeding/changing and still not be a great supervisor.

It might be that nothing bad has happened do far due to OP's risk management or presence of mil while OP is at work or sheer good luck. It doesn't follow that because nothing really awful has happened, that everything's okay.

OP might be too anxious, equally she might know her husband's capabilities better than us and doesn't want to risk her DC for the sake of dh's feelings.

"If the (in this case) dad is actively changing nappies, preparing meals and snacks, taking them out on their own, bathing them, doing bedtime and so on, the chances of them suddenly being incapable are slim. However, if the dad isn't doing these things often, either through choice (so a lazy parent, which this one doesn't seem to be because a lazy parent wouldn't actively offer to take the kids out when sitting in is an option), or isn't given a chance to (ie the mum is always there doing everything, helicoptering over both the kids and dad and nitpicking any attempts he makes), well he isn't going to be too good at it, is he?"

Two extremes. There are middle grounds, where the father does some of those things and is still able to fail at basic safety stuff when out and about with the child, either because they're not paying attention or because they just don't think about the "what ifs".

There is a poster on here who had 2yo twins - I (sadly) can't remember her name - her husband took them out but failed to put their reins on or hold their hands properly, and one ran into the road and was killed. I'm sure he was a good dad in other ways but he failed to pay attention to the fact that 2yos don't always do what they're supposed to. There's a wide area between "helicoptering" and "keeping a close eye on" small children.

Well if he gets divorced, because contempt and lack of trust is a big precursor for divorce, he will be with the children on his own a lot more than this!

Some fathers don't want to do child care and deliberately get it wrong. If he does and has offered then to not give him the chance to do it and improve is both marital suicide and not allowing him to learn.

In the same way almost all mums have had babies fall off places they have put them. Parents don't start out perfect but practice is what gets you there.

Stick to your safety concern guns .,, but when he doesn't love you and wants to be with someone who thinks more highly of him there will be a lot more solo parenting going on!

It sounds like you are suffering with anxiety. Unless you get help this is going to drive a huge wedge between you and DH

Without getting drawn into all the other debates here...YANBU to say no to him taking them OP or for pointing out his short comings as a parent.

I’m mid/late twenties now with my own DS but my DF was a right sodding nightmare for this! Taking my sibling and I out then forgetting we were with him, walking off and leaving us...etc
Luckily I was several years older than my sibling but my lord the number of times we were both under 10 and would end up ‘lost’ either at a customer service/till point or being ‘looked after’ by a nice elderly couple on a bench until DF turned back up. Every time he’s explode and shout at us for ‘wondering off’ but it was ALWAYS him who had gotten distracted and walked off leaving us doing whatever we were doing. He expected us to watch him and follow.

OP, look up maternal gatekeeping. If you won't let him parent, he will remain useless.

I have 2 kids with a 2 year gap. The second was conceived a few weeks after the first started walking and was still in reins. By the time the second was born he was running off and into the road if you didn't watch him really carefully. It was after the second was born that it became obvious that my husband couldn't manage to watch the eldest carefully, particularly when there was another baby around.

My husband is lazy and can not manage multi tasking - he freely admits that he is unable to. For this reason I never let him take one/both kids by himself to situations where they could get injured. On occasion I was forced to for all the reasons you all list above - he's their dad/has rights/has PR. Some edited highlights include losing the eldest and his cousin in the zoo. They'd run front he far side of Colchester zoo to the main entrance and into the car park before him and his sister noticed. He let one run out of a major supermarket into the main road. He lost one on holiday - 15 mins after the kid knocked on the apartment door and came into by himself to where I was in bed he let me know he'd lost one - no sense of urgency in raising the alarm. Lost one on a walk recently and the same thing happened, the kid knocked my door 15 mins before he arrived back with the other kid to announced he'd lost one. Never his fault though, always a million excuses why he couldn't manage something I do everyday. I do it by myself now, I left him.

As someone else pointed out, I now have to hand them over for alternate weekends. On their first weekend with them they came back in such a state thag nursery raised a mash referral. This weekend one has a bruise on his back, a bite mark on his arm, long filthy fingernails (they'd been for a long period over the holidays) nappy rash (he's potty trained) and a bad cough and rash on his tummy that hasn't been noticed by him.

So yes, he has PR, he's not a responsible adult though!

I have a similar but slightly different issue with my mother in law to the point she is dangerous with the dc at the beach and thought nothing of leaving them (way!) out of sight in the car park around the corner from a shop when she took them out for the day when they were around 6yo. Luckily a friend was passing and told me about it and we had words, no idea how many times she had done it previously. She also “lost” them in Tescos once and the dc had to ask staff for help. She’s a very capable woman, late fifties, businesswoman and they aren’t particularly difficult kids, it’s baffling.

She just doesn’t “see” risk, thinks the world is the same as when she was raising her children and they would disappear off out for the day at 9am and not be seen again until it was dark, camping out in the park type of childhood, which was probably lovely but you can’t do that now.

It’s a shame because I don’t fully trust her to make sensible decisions with them even now they’re older and they’ve missed out on time with her over the years due to this ie I wouldn’t have left them with her overnight or to go away or anything. It’s hard feeling like the bad guy.

At first, reading through the thread this morning, I thought OP sounded controlling. But as I read on, I remembered Useless Rugby Dad.

DS did a Sunday morning rugby class and DH used to come home complaining about one of the other parents. Useless Rugby Dad (URD) brought both the school age child and the 2-3yo along, and then always completely ignored the younger one. So the younger child was constantly in the space and getting in the way when the older children were running, stealing the ball, knocking over cones, taking a "turn" and holding up the older kids on the obstacle course, running over people's bags on the sidelines, and worst of all, running into the car park.

Meanwhile URD had spent the hour chatting to a mum he knew from school and relied on other parents and the coaches to tell him when his younger child was a nuisance/in danger. Then he'd shout ineffectually for a bit, and go back to not watching.

I saw it myself when I started taking DS to rugby. The other parents could all see it too. Once a grandmother told me that the last time she had been visiting her grandchildren and went along to the activity, that URD's youngest had wandered off and had been playing by himself in the car park (!), found a locked vehicle with the window half-open (because it was hot) and climbed inside. URD didn't even notice he was gone until the child found the horn and someone from the club went to investigate. It took them ages to get him out. She was telling me this weeks later while we watched the younger one at the other end of the field potentially about to wander into the car park again and URD was chatting away with his back to him. (He did! We shouted! URD trotted off muttering!)

DH said maybe his stupid flat cap came with invisible blinkers! DH is himself a very engaged parent and has no time for people who aren't. But they do exist, and in my view it's not just through lack of opportunity to do some solo parenting. I'm sure this guy changed nappies and pushed the buggy, and he was involved enough to know other school parents who were at the activity.

He just could not pay attention or risk assess, to the point where a bunch of strangers ended up annoyed by his child running wild and reminding him to watch his toddler for an hour every Sunday morning.

If he’s that “day dreamy and irresponsible” why did you decide to have kids with this man??!!!

She also “lost” them in Tescos once and the dc had to ask staff for help. She’s a very capable woman, late fifties, businesswoman and they aren’t particularly difficult kids, it’s baffling

If you’ve never managed to lose sight of them in Tesco, you’re in a very tiny minority. I lose my bloody husband in there. It isn’t baffling at all, is it? It’s a way to have a go at your mil because she’s more relaxed than you are.

I don't think anyone who has a dreamy boyfriend, thinks too much about how they will look after children - it tends to become apparent as a problem, after the fact. One might assume that being 'dreamy' is a self indulgence which will naturally alter once a person becomes responsible for small children. If you have DC with a small age gap - the problem might not even be noticeable until the DC are toddlers.

Losing children regularly isn't 'relaxed', it's negligent.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Losing children regularly isn't 'relaxed', it's negligent.

It wasn’t regularly. The pp said once.

I think it's a pretty safe bet in this circumstance to assume one of two scenarios in which today's scandal has played out. OP either wanted two kids and ignored the fact her husband is useless with the kids, and as a result has spent, and will spend, the rest of her time with him compensating for his shitty parenting, OR, he is actually a fairly sensible parent but isn't as ridiculously overbearing as she is, and she can't let go. Both of these are ultimately on her, unfortunately.

Nice victim blaming in the first scenario. Lots of people posting who clearly haven't met people like my dad and sister - nice, friendly, and able to get absorbed in thought to a point that is completely unsafe with young children.

Many people, male and female, are 'daydreamy' before having kids but get their act together once kids arrive. Some of those who don't can manage with one child but not with 2, so the issue only becomes apparent later. If her DH can't look after his own kids, that's on him not her - but she does need to think carefully about what her plan is for the long run.

It must be really hard, as splitting up would also be terrifying. I would never leave my DCs alone with my dad, he plays with them brilliantly and loves them dearly, but just wouldn't notice for too long if one wandered off while he was chatting with the other, or thinking about what to do next. The thought of having to share custody with a DH like that would be hard too.

Op I hope you are feeling better and are able to use the holiday time to talk honestly with your DH about approach for the future.

@Alsohuman

She also “lost” them in Tescos once and the dc had to ask staff for help. She’s a very capable woman, late fifties, businesswoman and they aren’t particularly difficult kids, it’s baffling

If you’ve never managed to lose sight of them in Tesco, you’re in a very tiny minority. I lose my bloody husband in there. It isn’t baffling at all, is it? It’s a way to have a go at your mil because she’s more relaxed than you are.

I've never lost a toddler in Tescos, I don't know anyone who has either.

All small children are kept firmly strapped in pushchairs or trolleys, and either bribed or propelled screaming blue murder whilst the shopping is done at breakneck speed so we can get the hell out of their.

I've never lost a toddler in Tescos, I don't know anyone who has either

You don’t know anyone who’s admitted to it.

Ffs he will never learn if you don't let him and if he is that much of a danger to his own kids then he shouldn't be around them alone.

At first, reading through the thread this morning, I thought OP sounded controlling. But as I read on, I remembered Useless Rugby Dad.

Really?
Is that from the OP's two posts, and where she says he's never lost any?

She hasn't actually given any reason to be concerned of him alone with the children.