Why was DM so weird about puberty, how do I move on?

[81Hannah81]

I started puberty relativley early I think, started developing about 9, face full of spots by 10, periods by 11. All in primary school basically.

DD1 is 8 now so getting to that age, and when I look back at my experience it seems like my mum just completely abandoned me and it's actually really affecting how I feel about her.

She never told me about puberty, periods or any of it; I was so freaked out and ashamed when I started my period I didn't know I was meant to tell anyone so I didn't have proper sanpro, just rolled up tissue in my knickers. She never mentioned me wearing a bra until she bought me a crop top when I was about 14 and was pretty much fully developed (sorry if tmi).

I was only allowed one bath and hair wash a week, no face wash, no deoderant, I felt so disgusting and was ostracised and humiliated at school because I didn't know how, or have the means to look after myself properly.

If I think of sending DD off to school so sad and confused, with a bunch of tissue in her knickers, I'm just heartbroken. The thought of it destroys me. How could my mum have done that to me?

I don't see me and DD skipping in to M&S for some first bra ceremony, but I want to guide her, say what do you need, what can i get you? I just don't understand why my mum left me to deal with it all alone. It feels like she wanted me to suffer!

I self harmed for most of my teens and ended up in hospital when I was 17 - that seemed to snap her out it somehow, she suddenly seemed to be my mum again.

I've become quite preoccupied with this but can't talk to anyone irl because I feel so ashamed. Did anyone else go through this, or know why it happened? How can i get over it?

My mum never told me about puberty. I didnt start my periods until I was about 13 so I had an idea by then from school. She bought me pads but it was NEVER discussed, neither was sex or contraception. I wasn't allowed to ask for pads or speak about my periods. Even now I feel embarrassed buying them in case I'm seen !! I don't really talk about it with DH either. And yet I'm a GP. So is he. I have absolutely zero problem talking about anything and everything with patients openly and comfortably. I talk to my DH about how to approach puberty with our DS and DD and I talk to my DD athough she prefers to read about it for herself. I just cant talk about it regarding me, as I still feel the remembered shame and being made to feel it was a dirty shameful secret. I never did much else right either though so I think it was just bound up in the general sense of being a failure and a disappointment.

I've read much of the thread but not all and in a way is horrifying but oddly reassuring that I am not alone in my experience. DPs consider themselves excellent parents and actually had a very successful childcare business. DM was/is very overweight with low self esteem and took an odd pleasure and embarrassing and neglecting me, with my basic needs being a massive inconvenience. I was only given basic provisions when someone else may have noticed. I had a toothbrush but was only told to brush my teeth in the morning so my breath didn't smell, never at night even when I had braces. I remember cutting my armpit hair with scissors before swimming (because it was that long I could trim it with kitchen scissors) but I only got a razor at 14 when a friend's mum took me to a school disco and bought me an outfit that exposed my legs. No deodorant, no regular san pro. She had pads in the cupboard and if they ran out I had to ration myself as I had no pocket money and no one else to ask. I only ever had 2 sets of clothes, plus school uniform and anything else was seen as wasteful and unnecessary. These were very unfashionable and not suited to my build at all as I was very petite. I only got a bra at about 15 and crop tops from 13 when people commented more openly. She wouldn't talk to me about anything and if I smelt it was because I was dirty and lazy not because I didn't have enough clothes or deodorant which really I could have done with at the end of primary school. She was desperate to get me on the pill once I started my periods and that was only time she bothered to take me to the doctors (couldn't be bothered managing my asthma). Weirdly, she was obsessed with talking about my development to everyone else in a mocking way, made it as difficult and public as possible for me to dispose of used san prop, and would make excuses to try to see me naked so I had no privacy. When she would find dirty pads or pants in my room these were publicly used to shame me and as evidence of how dirty and lazy I was, not that I was struggling with very heavy periods, probably on the wrong pill and didn't want to walk through the house with dirty pads. So awful. I am determined to break the cycle for DD. Ironically nothing is too much for trouble for DPs regarding their DGC materially - they think I'm dramatic for taking her to the doctors when she needs it. I'm always surprised and disappointed that no one stands up for these DC. The school must have noticed, other mums must have noticed and in my case the other DPs willing leaving their children in my DPs care must have noticed (certainly some did as one took me shopping one birthday as I had so few clothes and they felt sorry for me) so why did no one actually do anything? I do wonder if there is a still a culture of blaming young women rather than thinking hey she seems quite neglected and we should probably flag this to investigate why that is.

The clothes thing has been mentioned a few times hasn't it. Same for me; for a long time I had one pair of leggings and some hand me down jumpers and shirts, mostly from my brothers. People took the piss, and I remember other girls getting 'clothing allowance' from their mums to choose their own stuff. I think the comparison was a real killer, i always felt I must worth less than them.

I would echoe the PP who mentioned the book "the book you wish your parents had read" which is all about positive parenting and breaking previous cycles. For me it was insightful in thinking about how your parents/viewed you even as a baby. DM 'almost proudly' told me that I was a difficult baby who wouldn't breastfeed and it got so and it so bad that the HV held on to me at the clinic until DPs bought bottles and bits for feeding as they basically hadn't fed me for days. All this was seen as my fault for being difficult. I think the clothes thing is also about image and DM feeling competitive of me as a developing woman even though I was a child. I was also really jealous of girls who's mums sent them off to the nearest city with money in their pocket to buy their own clothes and who could choose their own haircuts (or even dye their hair). The book is very healing in a way as there are lots of activities to do around these areas so it's well worth a buy if you don't have it already.

That sounds very much like my mum, except the washing. We were encouraged to wash but "if you do that properly you don't need deoderant". You really do, she did!

That was what my DM told me as well. It led to me being told I was smelly by school bullies at the convent girls' school.

She did give me that 'talk', but much too late. If she'd said something earlier, I might have been able to understand that the SA that my DSis and I were going through at the hands of our F was wrong and might have been able to tell her what was happening.

I'm now certain that at the time when she did have the 'talk' about everything, I was in fact pregnant as a result of the abuse, though I didn't know that. (The baby died soon after birth.)

I don't blame my DM, as she didn't know what was going on, but the fact is that she missed the fact that both of us went through pregnancies. So yes, she is guilty of neglect.

I have a similar type of relationship with my DM, OP. She always means well, but I don't really confide in her. When I try to talk about the past, she bursts into tears and asks me not to 'spoil her time with her DGDs'. Tbf, she's 80 years old now.

I'm also in the same boat in that my DD1 (11) is starting to go through puberty. I do talk to her about that, it's actually not as difficult as I thought it would be.

For you, OP

I'm so sorry so many of you had these experiences growing up.

For me, it helps to remember that my DM was orphaned at 10, and she was brought up by an elderly uncle and aunt (her uncle sexually abused her as well), so she didn't have anyone to help her prepare for puberty.

Mittens I don’t really know what to say other than I’ve read what you’ve written and I cannot imagine what it’s like to experience that, it’s a whole other level of silence and neglect.

I’m sorry that your mother hasn’t acknowledged the abuse you suffered, what she suffered at a young age is not your responsibility to bear. I sincerely hope you’ve had help to process what happened. I wish you well.

Funnily enough, I got the Phillipa Perry book when it came out - I started reading it and had to stop as I just found it overwhelming. It's on the shelf with the spine facing to the wall in case DM came round and saw it! Gosh there's so much to unpack. I will try and have another go at it.

to you as well Mittens, that sounds so hard

Take it a small bit at at time 81Hannah and make a few notes as you go. Dipping in and out and processing what you read, just sit with the feelings for a while. I’m guessing your mum wasn’t too keen on you being emotional do you learned to hide your feelings, it’s hard when they are there so strongly.

Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I've had therapy and EMDR, which really helped me. But the knock-on effect has been huge. My DSis has vaginismus and can't have penetrative sex at all and I'm infertile (my DDs are adopted).

The biggest victim is my DB, as he was abused to (though not by my F). He's 52 and a shell of a man. It's really tragic. My DSis and I have created happy lives for ourselves, with DC of similarity ages. (My DSis and BIL used artificial insemination.)

I don't say that my DM's past excuses her mistakes, but it helps me to understand. She was also a victim of my F as well, as he put her through coercive control and was also emotionally abusive.

Mittens. Thanks for sharing your story. You really have been through something awful, a whole other level of abuse that I can’t even fathom. What was done to you was abhorrent. Well done for creating a happy life for yourself, not everyone would have the strength. The way I was parented was sloppy, lazy, neglectful and perhaps abusing but what happened to you was actually evil.

I think it’s interesting that your mothers lack of communication and willingness to inform you of the facts of like etc actually opened the door to the likelihood of abuse in some ways. I have never though about that side of it but I can see how you were more vulnerable because of it. Which shows how important it really is to arm your children with the information they need.

This thread has been great for me, I really had no idea that I wasn’t alone in this. I have never talked to anyone about what I experienced in my teens because I have always been embarrassed and assumed it was just me. Now I am wondering if there are still girls going around today with tissue in their knickers.

I also wonder, like some of you, why no adult ever stepped in to help. Teachers, friends mums etc must have been able to see the state of me! There kids certainly could and they made that very clear ☹️ I am baffled as to why no one ever did anything or tried to support me. We really were let down by so many adults.

Yes there are Catnip that’s what period poverty is all about, girls miss school because they can’t afford sanpro. It’s part of the same problem, even if their parents have been more open.

@Captnip500 Thank you and I agree with you. I've recently had to cope with the horrifying discovery that my DD2 (8) was being groomed online. Adopted children are vulnerable to this happening, because of issues of abandonment. But thankfully, I was alerted to what was going on when she spoke about 'internet boyfriends', and we were able to deal with it.

It does make me resentful that my DM didn't have the kind of relationship with us that meant she was able to connect with us on an emotional level. (She always thought she was so approachable.)

Mittens I’m thinking your F did his best to keep her from engaging with you as much as possible. She may be in denial about the emotional connection she had with you, she possibly can’t begin to deal with the idea that she might have prevented it. Did she have any therapy?

My mum was the same, barring the being prevented from bathing regularly. I think it’s a generational thing. Parents born in the fifties and think they just felt too awkward to discuss it. I don’t blame them but I’m looking forward to learning from it and being super open with DS!

@Fanthorpe

I think you're right. She did all the work for the language school that they owned, so was out of the house working or working at home. He also made the impression of being a wonderful father and husband.

And yet, he was actually unkind to her. He insisted on us going to Saudi Arabia, when we were children of 5, 3 and 1. She hated it and didn't want to go, but she gave in. He also got himself a dog that she really didn't want; she told me later that she'd burst into tears after he'd left with us to get the said dog. And of course, my DM did all the work and he made me pick up the poo from the garden. (Yes he had Parkinson's Disease, but he was capable of doing things he wanted to do.)

He was paranoid about her cheating (oh the irony), and actually said that a woman's infidelity was worse than a man's infidelity. She minimised his treatment of her. Because he could really act like a loving father and husband.

She's changed so much since he died. She now spends 2-3 months in Africa for work for the Christian charity she founded. And she completed a PhD in her seventies. Now she wants to be buried in her maiden name and have her ashes placed with her parents.

She hasn't had therapy, and since she's 80, she's unlikely to go for it now.

So she's come a long way. Her reaction to what we told her was very real. She's still being badly impacted by it all, and her attitude to sex isn't healthy. When I was dealing with distressing flashbacks and couldn't face allowing my DH near me, her advice was to 'lie back and think of England. (My DH obviously didn't want me to do that.

One problem is the attitude of conservative Evangelical churches towards marriage; the man is the head of the house.

Thank you for writing that Mittens, I agree there is a conspiracy around protecting abusers, the church has a lot to answer for.

I feel you’re very brave but recognise you probably don’t have any choice.

These stories are sad, and much more common than I realised. Thank you for the thread OP.

Oddly, my own mother talked about her own periods a lot, (the suffering!) but when I got mine was just told to buy some pads with my pocket money. Oh, and pick up some carrots while you're out.

I would wear 2 vests for support at 13, and was probably a b cup before she'd provide a bra. When I asked for one, she laughed and said that they weren't real breasts She did eventually take me to the end of sales and instructed me to rummage in the sales bins "for the smallest one you can find".

Deodorant was for people who didn't wash properly, and if I was cleaner, I wouldn't need it apparently. She was forever telling me I was dirty.

No sex talk, she called me up to the bathroom where she was taking a bath age 6 and asked if I was curious about women's bodies and would I like to look at hers (terrifying). She would also use me as a confidante and tell me about my dad's impotence, detailing various sex acts she'd tried to remedy with.

She'd body shame me by telling me to go to my room, undress and look in a mirror to appreciate how disgusting I was. Also burst into my bedroom while I was changing and photograph me without clothes. I would beg her not to, but she didn't give a fuck and show the photos to her friends. That part especially fucked me up, and has given me a lot of issues around consent and my own bodily autonomy.

We're NC now, but when I did bring this up she denied it all saying I'd imagined it, then demanded a written signed apology.

This kind of nasty bullshit really weaves itself into the fabric of your being.

I'm still a Christian, because I know that the Bible doesn't condone abuse. Jesus once said that those who hurt children should have a millstone tied around their necks and thrown into the sea.

But there still is a conspiracy of silence, you're right. A good friend of mine and her 17 year old DD reported her DD's stepfather for sexually abusing her. The pastor (a man I previously thought was a decent man) told her not to report it as it would bring shame on the church. He also said she must be to blame for not being a good enough wife. (I suspect my DM blames herself for this reason.) This pastor is also worryingly close to my DB, I wonder whether he's been told to keep quiet?

Something needs to be done, because at the moment free churches are full of hypocrites. Young people are told not to have sex before marriage but it's fine for children to be abused.

Okay, rant over.

There’s a book called ‘Goodbye Pink Room’ by Jane Grayshon which deals with this to some extent. She writes within the Christian context. It’s a painful sobering read for people who have no experience of csa. Safeguarding is crucial, I think that pastor should be reported to his diocese (?).

Free independent churches aren't answerable to any diocese, which is why it's so open to abuse. And it isn't my story to tell, as he didn't say anything to me, it was my friend and her DD that he said that to, and it was 3 years ago.

I knew it was like that when I was growing up (there were church members who knew about my F and didn't report him). But it was shocking to find out that it still happens now.

Thank you for the recommendation, I'll take a look at it.

Mittens I don’t want to lead you towards something that’s triggering, maybe read about the author first. There’s an interview with her in ‘Reform’ from 2014, which is accessible by searching on google.

@Fanthorpe Thank you, you've been very helpful. Yes I know it could well be triggering so I'll have a look at the interview first.

Hannah (and others), I'm so sorry that you had to go through such humiliating experiences, especially at such a young age and hope you can put it behind you and provide love and support to your own DDs when the time comes.

Thankfully I didn't start going through puberty until I was at secondary school, so had already picked up the basics at school (from a combination of biology lessons and from classmates who started before me).
I don't recall discussing puberty with my mum (she was never very good a talking about things she thought of as embarrassing), but at least she provided the basics.
My first bras were an unexpected 12th birthday present. I was really surprised as I hadn't asked for one and she hadn't brought up the subject either. All she said was that she thought I might want to wear one soon.
She wasn't quite so prepared when it came to periods, so when I got my first one, she gave me a few of her old Dr Whites towels and some safety pins to fasten them inside my knickers until she could buy me some adhesive ones the following morning. Even they were massive compared with modern ones.
After that she always made sure I had a supply. However, she always gave the impression that periods were rather embarrassing and definitely not to be discussed within earshot of my dad.
Similarly she would only ever buy sanitary products from the chemist and was horrified when they started to be advertised on TV!

Growing up, we only had a bath at the weekend, but of course by the time I had started puberty, we had to shower after every PE lesson at school, so that wasn't really a problem.