Dating a widower

[ChristmasinJune]

I'm hoping to get a bit of advice here for my sister who's in a dilemma. Basically she was in the same social circle as a man for a few years. They fancied each other a fair bit but for various reasons never got together. Both moved on to other people. Dsis has now been happily single for several years whilst the guy was very happily married to a lovely woman who died at the end of last year (Nov I think)
This guy has now been in touch and we think is moving towards asking her to meet up. She likes him and is excited about the prospect but is also extremely wary.
So my question:
Would you date a widower knowing that he loved his wife very much and was very happily married. Is this off putting or a good thing?
Also, what's a decent amount of time before a person is ready to move on? We both think that it may be "too soon" and lockdown loneliness is a factor here.

pickledmybrain Tbh I don't really care if you were judging personally. I'm very used to it over the years.

I think you are generalising massively. Of the friends of DH's who are widowers (they met at a group) I think very few have married new women for that. Now, if you were to say that they used their mothers or MIL's as childcare replacements then I'd have probably agreed more as I think there are a high number of widowed men who do default to that role.

DS is extremely lucky to have his Dad. Very few men widowed at 25 would have coped half as well as he did, and despite what you and others think, he kept DS as his no1 priority hence a very slow burn to our relationship.

After six months. Of course he did. I’m sure his only priority was his child.

It's not an easy life choice and one she should consider very, very carefully.

Thanks for that, it really is food for thought. I suppose it's very, very early days at present and at some point in the future it'll boil down to how strong their mutual feelings are and whether they consider it worth the risk. At the moment I'd say chances are high that they'll meet up, enjoy talking about old times and become friends.... but we'll see, it's her life at the end of the day.

Actually, I do have some experience of a widowed father moving on quickly too.
It was the best thing that could have happened to my niece, she needed the female support in her life and suddenly started thriving at school, made new friends, gained step-siblings she loved and is growing up to be a well rounded young lady.
Her Dad is happy too.
I sometimes forget we are both cursed with death because we both got on with living.
(And yes, at his wife's funeral we did hug and ask each other if we were cursed, wow, I can't believe I forgot about him too! Shows how normal life can be if you allow it)

I knew someone who remarried within 6 months of his wife dying.

His kids never forgave him

@pickledmybrain

After six months. Of course he did. I’m sure his only priority was his child.

You know absolutely nothing of the circumstances. I was going to write them out, but I don't see the point. think what you like.

Don’t you see the problem there mr?

In effect you are saying all your niece needed was a female mother figure, shame about the mum but never mind, any woman will do!

It’s so insulting. It reminds me horribly of orphaned farm animals just stuck with another lactating animal.

I don’t want to hurt you lyra, I just think dating six months after losing your spouse is immature and wrong. I’m sorry. That is not a reflection on you.

There was another thread about moving on after bereavement a few days ago. Basically I think people do have to take into consideration that moving on too quickly is disrespectful to friends and relatives. I think fair enough meet up for coffee and meals as friends but not dates as such until at least a year has passed.

@pickledmybrain

I don’t want to hurt you lyra, I just think dating six months after losing your spouse is immature and wrong. I’m sorry. That is not a reflection on you.

You're a stanger, your opinion doesn't hurt.

I wouldn't really call it dating at that point really. We were two people who met. Neither wanted a relationship, but had some fun while we were both child free for the weekend. There was no intention of it going further that that, but over the next 12 months it did.

I think it's bizarre you use the word "wrong". How is there a right and wrong in circumstances when no-one knows how they'd react?

In DH's case the person who had encouraged him to move on (which is a phrase I personally hate) was his wife. She strongly felt, according to her Mum, that if he didn't get back on his feet and live his life to the full then cancer would take two lives.

@pickledmybrain

Don’t you see the problem there mr?

In effect you are saying all your niece needed was a female mother figure, shame about the mum but never mind, any woman will do!

It’s so insulting. It reminds me horribly of orphaned farm animals just stuck with another lactating animal.

You really are being insulting and goady now. He fell in love again. He wasn't looking for a wet nurse. It just so happened that they were a great fit. The 2 families worked and he adores her. Does the new partner struggle a bit with living in the shadow of the saintly dead wife? Of course she does. But you are being disingenuous. I'm sorry you felt pushed out. Your experience is not universal.

You have been obtuse and rude to many posters over this.

People are giving their lived experiences and you are comparing them to fucking farm animals?

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself.

Families are more than the sum of their parts.

This is the issue - Living life to the full does not have to involve a partner all of the time. There are points when it will: no one is suggesting staying single forever, but there is a process in grieving and going through that entirely natural (and necessary) process isn’t not living life to the full.

What I’m saying is very clear, Mr. I’m saying that for a young child who has lost her mother, sticking another woman in the mothers place and brightly saying that it’s soooo much better now is grossly insulting to her mother. And yes, it is treating women - And I presume we all are women - as farm animals, commodities, vessels, we provide sex and companionship for men and we provide love and parenting for children and really we are all fairly interchangeable so when one does, replace it.

And you say you are insulted: I’m sorry. I have no desire to do that but when sharing your honest views that sometimes is inevitable.

@pickledmybrain

This is the issue - Living life to the full does not have to involve a partner all of the time. There are points when it will: no one is suggesting staying single forever, but there is a process in grieving and going through that entirely natural (and necessary) process isn’t not living life to the full.

It doesn't have too, but if it does and it feels right to the person involved, and their family are supportive, then what's the harm?

Everyone grieves differently. Especially in long and slow deaths. OMIL (not Dh before you jump on him for something else) feels she did most of her grieving before her DD actually died due to the period of time it took.

What would be wrong would be judgemental people trying to enforce some sort of minimum period before people are allowed to live their life how they see fit. As long as the person and their family are happy with decisions being made that's all that matters. Pious strangers shouldn't come into it.

@pickledmybrain

What I’m saying is very clear, Mr. I’m saying that for a young child who has lost her mother, sticking another woman in the mothers place and brightly saying that it’s soooo much better now is grossly insulting to her mother. And yes, it is treating women - And I presume we all are women - as farm animals, commodities, vessels, we provide sex and companionship for men and we provide love and parenting for children and really we are all fairly interchangeable so when one does, replace it.

And you say you are insulted: I’m sorry. I have no desire to do that but when sharing your honest views that sometimes is inevitable.

I still love quoting.

Do you stink he "stuck another woman in" or do you think he sensitively and slowly introduced her?

There was a minimum period in Ancient Rome actually I think that was more to allow any pregnancies to go to term so there weren’t doubts about the parentage!

And yes, everyone does grieve differently and several things contribute to that - the type of death, certainly. But I do think when we are talking about months not years, it is indicative of wanting to replace rather than meeting and loving someone on their own merits, and I do dislike that (although i know for men it is very very common!)

It doesn’t really matter mr - that little girls mother dying will have been a devastating and heartfelt loss and one that can’t simply be replaced by sticking another woman there in place of her, no matter how sensitively it is apparently done.

I met a widower, purely by chance, not on OLD, or through friends or a hobby. When we met his wife had died the previous month.
We became friends, and 6mths later decided to become intimate.
It didn't work out, he realised he was nowhere near ready to start a new relationship, although his late wife had said she wanted him to be happy, and not feel guilty about meeting someone else.
His late wife has 2 adult children (step children of this man).
The daughter completely cut ties, as did all her children.
The son totally accepted our relationship, saying that his mum had asked him to support his step father should he have another relationship, and he also said to me that it was made easier because he liked me and we got along.
I am still very good friends with the widower, but it is very obvious that he is still grieving his wife - he admits he was sticking his head in the sand when we started a relationship, and that he has no idea when or if he will be in a position to have another relationship.
Grief is a very individual thing. And no one should be telling someone what they should or shouldn't be feeling at different points in their grief.
Live, and let live, because all of these people who have been bereaved will be only too aware about how short life actually is.

@MiddleAgedLurker

I'm widowed, and I'm dating a widower. We met on OLD and decided we would be friends first. Romance followed about 3 months later. He joined up at 9 months, me at 18 months after our spouses died (long marriages, we are 55 and 60). Both of us have experienced a bit of tut tutting, but the people who love us most are glad for us. I have two children, young adults. They want me to be happy again and although I have no doubt that it's not easy for them, they are fully supportive and like my new boyfriend. I feel so lucky in this! We take care to be tactful around sensitive people, but neither of us feels guilty or disloyal. My boyfriend and his wife did not have children. It is not plain sailing at all times. We loved our spouses and miss them every day, and we are most definitely still grieving. But they're dead, and life is short. As many have already pointed out, we all grieve in our own unique way and there is no formula for how it should be done. OP, I hope your sister can enjoy her new friendship without too much anxiety :-)

“But they are dead and life is short”. That’s a wonderful distillation of something very important. @MiddleAgedLurker I for one wish you both all the luck in the world.

@pickledmybrain

There was a minimum period in Ancient Rome actually I think that was more to allow any pregnancies to go to term so there weren’t doubts about the parentage!

And yes, everyone does grieve differently and several things contribute to that - the type of death, certainly. But I do think when we are talking about months not years, it is indicative of wanting to replace rather than meeting and loving someone on their own merits, and I do dislike that (although i know for men it is very very common!)

I think it's fine for you to dislike it, but trying to push your opinion on someone else would be absolutley wrong.

So many things contribute to people's choices - the relationship they had, the opinion of their spouse (if they had time to give it), the type of death, the family around them, their age, their general life - and that means that only they know what works in their situation.

I think until someone is in the situation they don't know exactly what they'd do, and their choices may be different to other peoples. There's no right and wrong about how they should feel.

@pickledmybrain For someone who said earlier they don't judge and there is no arbitrary time scales on meeting a new partner, you seem to have a few double standards.

Fundamentally, you still cannot answer the question of when is the right time to move on?
Or is it down to individual choice? in which case 9 months may be fine......

As i said earlier, the partner is dead, they are never coming back, it doesn't matter if your in bed with someone the next day or in ten years.
Life is for living, my partner died aged 34, in an accident, one minute there, the next gone forever, our future together destroyed and yet you seek to judge.

I brought up my DD on my own but i have had relationships, some a whole lot sooner than 9 months! and so what? its only sex.

Please ignore the stupid idiots saying there is a time limit on grieving. Everyone grieves in their own way and a previously happily married man is more than likely to make a good husband, second time around. A long illness is a grieving process in its own way.

You sister isn't going to marry him after 5 minutes. She will have months to get to know whether the man can see her as a new love and not be tied emotionally to his first wife. She can make up her mind and you can support her.

Well exactly jas, it’s that sort of dismissiveness - well, they are dead, who cares, doesn’t matter, move on - When you boil it down, it’s effectively saying that one person is pretty much the same as the next and the next.

When I say I’m not judging, I mean that I am not telling people what they should and shouldn’t do. That’s not my place! But how I feel about something is for me - which arguably is a form of judging but how you instinctively feel about things is difficult to change from the inside.

@pickledmybrain I am sorry your early loss was so painful to you. But you are being quite unkind to people sharing some very personal experiences who have also been through loss. That seems a bit of a shame.

I really don’t think I am - I have reiterated I’m not posting with the intention of hurting anybody. Of course sometimes your posts will hurt nonetheless: there’s no way around that it people are to answer honestly, but I don’t think I’ve been deliberately provocative at any point. If you feel I have then do point them out and I’ll gladly apologise if I agree.