Is it ever right to hit a woman

[Meadow1203]

Just this really. My ex partner is adamant that if a woman hits or slaps a man then it is ok for him to retaliate. He is 6 4 and a very strong man, just a slap would be potentially dangerous. He said he has always advised his daughters never to hit a man as they should expect to be hit back. I am not condoning violence btw, just interested in views on this.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I live in London and have for 25 years. Where is this bit of London you describe in your posts? I’ve lived North, South, East and West. I don’t recognise what you describe.

The point about physical strength and harm is very relevant when you prosecute people. It’s a principle of criminal law. If you inflict harm, then the assault is graded accordingly. And if caught and convicted, you will serve a longer sentence.

Why does this matter? Because men are stronger than women. Because a child is weaker than an adult, and because the old do not have the strength of the young. This is a very old principle is not new.

If an adult woman ie you stepped in a slapped a far younger woman without being attacked yourself, you would be in greater trouble than she. By dint of your age, you are supposed to act more responsibly. Young people often make mistakes as they grow and are impetuous and stupid. By the time you are 25 you are a mature adult. So what you have said on this thread really bothers me.

@MitziK

Sorry for the warbling. It bothers me that much, I've not structured the reply properly.

I thought your reply was very moving and raw. I’m so sorry about your DPs mate losing his life to violence. I’m also sorry to hear your childhood was so traumatic due to DV from your mother. Voices like yours need to be heard because it is just naive for that PP to think that when a person is being attacked that they can simply leave the situation.

[quote LexMitior]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I live in London and have for 25 years. Where is this bit of London you describe in your posts? I’ve lived North, South, East and West. I don’t recognise what you describe.

The point about physical strength and harm is very relevant when you prosecute people. It’s a principle of criminal law. If you inflict harm, then the assault is graded accordingly. And if caught and convicted, you will serve a longer sentence.

Why does this matter? Because men are stronger than women. Because a child is weaker than an adult, and because the old do not have the strength of the young. This is a very old principle is not new.

If an adult woman ie you stepped in a slapped a far younger woman without being attacked yourself, you would be in greater trouble than she. By dint of your age, you are supposed to act more responsibly. Young people often make mistakes as they grow and are impetuous and stupid. By the time you are 25 you are a mature adult. So what you have said on this thread really bothers me.[/quote]
I live in East London. Every single pub has bouncers on the door.

As for this bit

If an adult woman ie you stepped in a slapped a far younger woman without being attacked yourself, you would be in greater trouble than she. By dint of your age, you are supposed to act more responsibly. Young people often make mistakes as they grow and are impetuous and stupid. By the time you are 25 you are a mature adult. So what you have said on this thread really bothers me.

Firstly, since when have we had laws applied differently to adults depending on their age? That's ridiculous. So if a thirty year old and a fifty year old had a fight the fifty year old would be treated more harshly because he's 50 and should be wiser than the 30 year old? What codswallop. And no need for you to worry about me.

Mitz

I'd rather avoid such shit. But people do try and bring it to you, and if there is no way out, I will fight and I will fight hard.

Very well said.

Years ago I practiced jujitsu for a few years, my instructors advice was always 'not to be there' which I have tried to follow ever since and has served me well. I worked in various pubs and clubs when I was younger and you do very quickly pick up a sixth sense when it comes to spotting trouble. These days I have no problem putting my drink down and walking out when I see things are going to kick off (thankfully rarely these days) . Sadly there are morons out there who will seem determined to start trouble because they are bullies and because they can. The whole 'turn the other cheek' brigade seem astonishingly naive on this matter. Working in the night time economy (London, Bristol, Weymouth) certainly taught me that it is not just blokes who are capable of unprovoked violence. I have lost count of the times bouncers have pulled two or more scrapping women off each other (yes I have worked in some shit holes). While the majority of the trouble was caused by men I was surprised at first how many women were happy to throw a drink, a punch, or goaded their boyfriend into physical retribution over some perceived slight. My heart used to sink when I heard the words "what are you going to do about it" screamed by some irate women at her fella. Having a quiet word with door security or bar staff over whatever the offence was never seemed to be an option.

Goodness what a debate. I agree that a man is allowed to defend himself if being attacked. But it is a fact that most men are considerably stronger and more powerful then women, it is not a fair fight.
My ex is a very strong powerful man and the reason we are talking is that he still lives in my house. We were having a row and he picked up a hose and hosed me down, I am sorry I retaliated. I was angry. He was not injuired btw, I am small and he is 6 4 he would never be in danger

So are you saying you hit him because he sprayed you with the hose?

If so, then I don't see how you can really argue that a man should just walk away if he's been hit - why didn't you just walk away?

Compare that with the footage of the man on the train being attacked - he didn't attempt to hit back but couldn't get away.

I think you've applied double standards twice over really - you hit someone and don't expect them to hit you back because you're a woman and you hit out in retaliation when you'd expect a man to just walk away. So, if you expect a man to do both of those things then why shouldn't it apply to a woman?

Based on your last post OP, you've started the wrong thread. You should be looking for help/answers relating to getting your ex out of your house, avoiding toxic relationships and managing your own anger to name a few that leap immediately to mind. Try focusing on the right issues and your life may just get better.

He should never have sprayed you with a hose because you were arguing and that says something about the type of man he is. You still weren't justified in physically lashing out at him however. Regardless of respective sizes there is always the potential that you might have injured him and based on the summary detail you've provided I wouldn't assume a court would accept a claim of self defense.

I think you've applied double standards twice over really - you hit someone and don't expect them to hit you back because you're a woman and you hit out in retaliation when you'd expect a man to just walk away. So, if you expect a man to do both of those things then why shouldn't it apply to a woman?

I agree. It's suggesting that men are mature, calm, measured adults who can always be relied on to adhere to that much higher standard; whereas women are 'known' to be frequently incapable of acting like anything more than petulant toddlers who just can't be expected to know any better. It's a deeply unpleasant inference.

I am small and he is 6 4 he would never be in danger

Which is an extraordinary claim. I have been attacked by women who were much smaller then me and I honestly believe on each occasion they believed they had a free pass by dint of me being a man. I have detailed an abusive ex on this thread but I have also been attacked while working in pubs and bars. Sure, I'm a big bloke and if I felt compelled I could thrown these women across the room. I did not do that, preferring instead to use my size to either restrain the attacker or parry the blows. It is really fucking unplesent to be attacked by anyone who is intent on causing harm to you. Even then, after restraining a women who has just lobbed an ice bucket at your head you are still being judged by most people in the room as to how proportionate your response is because you are dealing with a women.

Holy Mary OP,
You don’t condone violence, you think someone under attack should just walk away but when you were harmlessly sprayed with a hose by your partner during a row, you went up and hit him? That’s really hypocritical of you.

In the context of what happened, your partners comment actually makes sense. He is in a relationship with a physically abusive woman. So of course, he’s got to somehow raise daughters to not hit their partners like their mother does. I think his guidance of don’t hit a man, because you may be hit back is not so bad now knowing the context of the family dynamic of domestic violence. He’s telling them, not all men will stand there and take being hit without hitting back like they see between you and him. Just because he doesn’t hit you back, doesn’t mean another man would be so forgiving.

frazzled I remember being the child in the exact scenario you describe

I agree that a man is allowed to defend himself if being attacked. But it is a fact that most men are considerably stronger and more powerful then women, it is not a fair fight.

Then don't attack someone if you don't want to be hit back. It goes for anyone.

There's no justification for violence unless it's genuine self defence.

You wouldn't attack a wolf and then say well it shouldn't attack me back because it's not a fair fight.

People need to keep their hands to themselves.

Maybe it's just me, but I seriously judge any adult - male or female, big or small - who has a natural recourse to using their hands or feet to attack another person. Kick-boxing against a big padded column/wall: fine; defending yourself against an attacker, be they human or animal: also fine.

Just what kind of supposedly mature person would look at their hands or feet - marvellous things that can do so very many useful things in life - and think "You know what: I reckon I could use these to deliberately hurt somebody" ?

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

It’s not just you. It’s one of the most depressing things about people, particularly in criminal justice. Police stations full of idiots dealing out justice as they see it. Most of the time it is legally wrong and morally dubious. The law of the playground, really.

@LexMitior

What do you think should have happened in the situation in the video posted earlier with the man on the train?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I think that like any crime, context of action is everything. Neither party came out of it very well. They weren’t any different to the people who clutter up a police station. She hit him (wrong) and he thought he was entitled to respond similarly (also wrong).

It’s pretty simple - both are wrong in how they acted.

[quote LexMitior]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I think that like any crime, context of action is everything. Neither party came out of it very well. They weren’t any different to the people who clutter up a police station. She hit him (wrong) and he thought he was entitled to respond similarly (also wrong).

It’s pretty simple - both are wrong in how they acted.[/quote]
Hear hooves asked about the video I posted in which a man was attacked on the subway by a woman punching and hit him. All he did was cover his face with his arms, pull his legs up protectively and beg bystanders to call the police. There was no “respond similarly” in the video. Perhaps you should actually watch it?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Sorry Hear, I got the wrong video. That woman is very aggressive and belligerent- certainly assault.

But it’s clear that he said something to her beforehand. Doesn’t it excuse it mind.

So charge her with assault! What’s kind of interesting is that no one intervenes at all.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Have done. My question; do you think on balance it would have been better if;

A) He responded in kind and hit her
B) Restrained her
C) Apologised
D) Put his hands up to defend himself

[quote LexMitior]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Sorry Hear, I got the wrong video. That woman is very aggressive and belligerent- certainly assault.

But it’s clear that he said something to her beforehand. Doesn’t it excuse it mind.

So charge her with assault! What’s kind of interesting is that no one intervenes at all.[/quote]
Who's going to charge her with assault? The non existent police not called by the disinterested bystanders? Meanwhile the man is being attacked. It is interesting that no one intervened - maybe no one wanted to be accused of manhandling a woman? Maybe no one wanted to be accused of retaliation? So instead they all stood and watched a man be attacked.

[quote LexMitior]@PlanDeRaccordement

Have done. My question; do you think on balance it would have been better if;

A) He responded in kind and hit her
B) Restrained her
C) Apologised
D) Put his hands up to defend himself[/quote]
Well, he was trying to defend himself, without much success.

Apologise? For what - his head hurting her fists?

I'm not sure he could have restrained her - she looked bigger than him.

Not many other options are there?

[quote LexMitior]@PlanDeRaccordement

Have done. My question; do you think on balance it would have been better if;

A) He responded in kind and hit her
B) Restrained her
C) Apologised
D) Put his hands up to defend himself[/quote]
I think he should have used his legs to block her and keep her out of arm length so she could not reach him to punch him. By this I mean just blocking, no kicking her or tripping- nothing that would hurt.

I think the bystanders should have called the police. The fact everyone just looked the other way was very disturbing.

Not surprising though. They've done tests like this before (I know this was genuine) with a man hitting a woman and vice versa but it's only when the woman is getting hit that people intervene.
People go on about equal rights for woman but then say a man shouldn't hit back. You can't have it both ways.

There's a well-known psychological phenomenon called the "bystander effect". The more people around the less likely people are to intervene.

Equal rights is such a red herring when used as above. If you're turning it into an excuse to make the world worse for everyone, instead of make it better, then you really need to catch yourself on.

Yes equality would be horrendous for men. We dont want men to be treated the same as women. If we did 2 men a week would be killed.