Is it ever right to hit a woman

[Meadow1203]

Just this really. My ex partner is adamant that if a woman hits or slaps a man then it is ok for him to retaliate. He is 6 4 and a very strong man, just a slap would be potentially dangerous. He said he has always advised his daughters never to hit a man as they should expect to be hit back. I am not condoning violence btw, just interested in views on this.

@Hiddenmnetter

Call me sexist but I've always thought that a woman hitting a man (be it in rage or for whatever reason) is nothing like the problem as the reverse, simply because of the massive strength imbalance. I'm reasonably certain I could knock my wife out cold in 1 hit, but she would have to either land an exceptionally lucky blow or be wielding a massive cast iron frying pan to achieve the same result. I'm not saying it's good for women to hit men, but I don't view it anything like as problematic, and I think it's the principle lesson that boys need to be taught by their fathers, that they learn the self control required to never retaliate and never strike a woman.

I would go so far as to say that a man hitting a woman is almost always abusive, whereas I think that it is almost never abusive for a woman to hit a man. I've never met a man who was physically afraid of his wife (though I'm sure it is possible they exist), although I think that almost every woman has had to consider at some point or another the sheer physical strength of her husband (whether in the heat of an argument or whatever).

Have you not read the post on this very thread from a man who was abused by a woman?

@DillonPanthersTexas

An awful lot of people on here focusing on the strength and size difference between men and women. Very little talk of the psychological damage of being hit by your partner. For the record I am a bloke who was in a physically abusive relationship for about 18 months before I got out. She had a fearsome temper, was insecure and very jealous which sadly manifested itself in physical attacks on me. Most of the time I could restrain her, or I just stood there like a lemon while slapped or punched me until she had calmed down. Occasionally she caught me with a real stinger, most of the time however, it did not hurt and what bruises there were I could pass off as something I picked up off the rugby field. I used to play semi pro rugby, was a big in shape bloke and she was a 5ft 4 women almost half my weight. Mentally I was broken, my self esteem shot to pieces and my confidence gone despite outwardly seeming to have a good life. It took me another couple of years before I even considered dating again. Very few people believed me when I finally started to speak about the physical abuse and again the conversation would be around how a big bloke could be a victim to a little woman. Size means nothing if even the softest of blows wrecks your mental health.

Here we are @Hiddenmnetter

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I can tell you what I did because I have been hit by a woman; and the threatened with violence. I didn’t respond by hitting them. In the first instance I told them I would be calling the police and in the second, I took none of it and they backed down. Those were women. Men have done far worse and are much more physically dangerous to a woman on average.

I don’t live in places where women tear at each other. Where do you live?

Note you didn’t answer my point; on your logic, where you get involved in something that didn’t actually involve you any harm, you decide you’ll give out a slap. That’s just the same (if not worse legally) than the woman who theoretically might hit your son and you happen to be there and you see it and then you give out a slap.

I hope you never get into this situation. You would have a fight on your hands most likely and legally you would have started it.

Restrain. Yes
Defend yourself. Yes.

Hit someone for no "good reason" -no. Yes for example if she went to put her hand on something hot or something -as it hit it out of the way.

I agree with runningfrominsanity. There are some violent women and girls and some of them are hefty.

Nobody says there aren’t. This is about whether it’s okay to hit them.

Where are you on that one?

Statistically the main perpetrators of street violence are men, and the biggest threat of violence to men comes from other men.

I hit my ex to stop him hitting one of my DC and I will always stand by the fact that I totally did the right thing. Even though what he ended up doing to me was devastating. But I protected my DC. I had never lashed out before

I would definitely be really angry if my DH said that to my daughters and if he said to my son then I’d be absolutely livid

it is ok to defend yourself if someone is attacking you, using the appropriate force with regards to the situation, and person you are defending yourself against. It should not matter who they are

You would imagine that doesn't need to be said.

Nobody should hit anybody.

But if anyone, male or female, attacks you, you have the right to physically defend yourself.

This man was attacked and cried for someone to call the police. No one did.
nypost.com/2018/09/04/woman-smacks-stranger-in-disturbing-subway-attack/

I think he should have used his legs to push her away. Not kick, or hurt, but to firmly block her.

I'm somebody who deplores violence of all kinds (like the majority of posters on here, I'm sure) - I even detest boxing where two adults of the same sex and a similar size have actively consented to beat and be beaten. Restraining/reporting/getting away is always by far the best reaction wherever possible.

However, there does seem to be some infantilising of women in general on here and the implication that a woman hitting a man is less wrong than a man hitting a woman, purely by dint of the possible consequences.

Unless it's genuine self-defence, any adult hitting any adult is equally wrong. As for the rough toddler analogy upthread, do people really believe that more/less physically strong is the only differential that counts, regardless of whether it's two grown adults or one grown adult and a 2yo child?

In general, of course men are physically able to do more damage to a woman than vice versa, but I'm still surprised by the PPs giving blanket declarations to this effect. Supposing that Nicola Adams had an evil twin who didn't restrict her fighting to the ring, the chances are that she'd be able to severely hurt a great many men - maybe through strategy and agility as much as strength, but the net result would be the same.

What about if said theoretical twin - in fact any young/middle-aged woman - worked in a care home and decided that she knew how best to keep the frail elderly blokes in line and following her orders when nobody else was looking? It doesn't even have to be a care home scenario: the assumptions here seem to be of a similar age, but if it were a healthy, well-built 30yo woman and an unsteady, slight 75yo man? Do we then start restructuring what is or isn't acceptable by analysing the strength/age ratios and then telling people inside/outside what age range it is/isn't 'OK'?

It's very wrong for any adult to hit any other adult in anger (assuming no mitigating factors such as severe learning difficulties or advanced dementia, in which cases professional restraint is still often required, as nobody deserves the violence, even if committed by somebody with reduced capacity). As Dillon said upthread, it isn't just the visible marks that wound deeply and enduringly.

We just need to teach children of both sexes as they grow that we don't hit anybody. Telling men specifically that they must never hit women and telling women specifically that it's more socially unacceptable for men to hit them just detracts from the important simple message covering everybody - making men potentially think that they can hit other men and making women potentially think that they can hit men and other women.

I wouldn't personally teach children growing up that 'you mustn't hit them BECAUSE then they might hit you', but I'd say in general terms that, if one person hits another, that can often provoke retaliation and enforce the damaging message that physical violence is somehow acceptable or normal - and then society as a whole is very much the poorer for it. Self-defence only, until you can report and get official assistance and/or get away from the aggressor, should be the one lesson that we teach.

[quote LexMitior]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I can tell you what I did because I have been hit by a woman; and the threatened with violence. I didn’t respond by hitting them. In the first instance I told them I would be calling the police and in the second, I took none of it and they backed down. Those were women. Men have done far worse and are much more physically dangerous to a woman on average.

I don’t live in places where women tear at each other. Where do you live?

Note you didn’t answer my point; on your logic, where you get involved in something that didn’t actually involve you any harm, you decide you’ll give out a slap. That’s just the same (if not worse legally) than the woman who theoretically might hit your son and you happen to be there and you see it and then you give out a slap.

I hope you never get into this situation. You would have a fight on your hands most likely and legally you would have started it.[/quote]
I live in London.

Can you explain why it would be worse for me to hit someone than for someone to hit my son? Sorry, not understanding that.

And, if the police aren't interested in responding to a woman slapping a man I can't see they'll be too bothered about a woman slapping another woman. All hypothetical anyway, hopefully it never happens.

@PlanDeRaccordement

This man was attacked and cried for someone to call the police. No one did. nypost.com/2018/09/04/woman-smacks-stranger-in-disturbing-subway-attack/

I think he should have used his legs to push her away. Not kick, or hurt, but to firmly block her.

That video is really horrible. I'm quite sure that had that been a woman being slapped by a man people would have intervened. What was he supposed to have done in that instance?

There was a video doing the rounds a few years back that featured two actors staging an argument in the street while being secretly filmed. The argument got more heated to the point where one person started to push and shove the other. They filmed the scenario twice, one with the bloke being physically aggressive and the other with the women being physical. When the women was physically assaulting the man people stopped in the street......to mostly watch and laugh. When the bloke started to be abusive there was almost a queue of people stepping in to intervene.

@DillonPanthersTexas

There was a video doing the rounds a few years back that featured two actors staging an argument in the street while being secretly filmed. The argument got more heated to the point where one person started to push and shove the other. They filmed the scenario twice, one with the bloke being physically aggressive and the other with the women being physical. When the women was physically assaulting the man people stopped in the street......to mostly watch and laugh. When the bloke started to be abusive there was almost a queue of people stepping in to intervene.

I've seen those on YouTube, there's quite a lot of them and the results are always the same.

Men and women intervened when the man was the aggressor and everyone either watched or, the majority, openly laughed when the woman was the aggressor.

Hear hooves
Yes it’s chilling to watch because she punches him hard. It’s not a few open handed lady slaps. I should I have done a trigger warning! Hope it did not distress you too much.
As for what he was alleged to have done. In the article the bystander who filmed the tail end of the attack said the man apparently or must have made a comment that the woman took to be about her and enraged her. The bystander didn’t hear what the comment was but thinks that was what happened.

I do think if you hit someone you risk being hit back. My children do kickboxing not to attack others but to defend themselves.
Doesn't matter if it's a man or women. If you don't want to be hit back then don't hit first.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Hear hooves Yes it’s chilling to watch because she punches him hard. It’s not a few open handed lady slaps. I should I have done a trigger warning! Hope it did not distress you too much. As for what he was alleged to have done. In the article the bystander who filmed the tail end of the attack said the man apparently or must have made a comment that the woman took to be about her and enraged her. The bystander didn’t hear what the comment was but thinks that was what happened.

No, don't apologise. I was more upset by the fact that not a single person attempted to intervene. Who can just sit back and watch someone being attacked?

@PlanDeRaccordement

the proper response to being hit is to leave the situation,

And if you can’t leave the situation? Do you just curl up in a fetal ball and pray they don’t kill you?

Happened to DP's mate.

His mate's friend died in the attack, he was hospitalised.

DP, also being small, has been attacked for no reason whilst a teenager.

Goth bashing, Gay bashing, whatever, it's always directed at people who don't look physically able to fight back.

Both, because they were so small, describe curling up and trying to protect their heads.

Those attacks were by people much larger - and in the case of DP's mate, a girl. I've also intervened when three big girls had cornered DP outside a gig and were trying to goad him into making a comment that would give them an excuse to attack him. That was the nearest I'd been to getting into a fight, as there wasn't any escape and I knew DP would just take the battering if it came. I didn't particularly want to do it, but I wasn't going to leave him to get his head smashed into a brick wall. So I distracted the lead big girl and she eventually decided it might not be the easy fight she had hoped for and retreated.

Thing is, I've have batterings from people before and had no choice but to take it or hit back - when you're 11 and it's your mother doing it, you don't get to leave the situation. When you're in school and it's happening every day and the school and your mother don't care, you don't get to escape the situation indefinitely. Not when they're hunting you down every single day and have done it in front of your entire class, they're that immune. So you fight back after months of trying to avoid the situation. Hard. People notice then. And you don't get to walk away when it's either take the beating/strangling or the 6'5" now ex carries out his original plan of whipping the three year you've just put yourself in front of to distract him.

I've also intervened in full knowledge that it could end up as a fight when DP has been cornered by three huge girls who were spoiling for a fight and were trying to get him to give them an excuse. The ringleader changed her mind when she got the impression that things might not go her way anymore - not because I was threatening, but I think I gave off the impression that I wasn't looking for a fight, but might be persuaded if she swung first. My actual plan was 'be calm, defuse, distract, get her in shot of the CCTV, confuse and if it still happens, ideally put her on the floor before retreating or our mates come out'.

I fucking hate violence. I fucking hate physical abuse. But I can never say 'turn the other cheek' because as much as feeling godly might work for some, I have no interest in finding out whether Jesus actually exists or not and whether he actually meant it like that for some considerable time yet.

I'd rather avoid such shit. But people do try and bring it to you, and if there is no way out, I will fight and I will fight hard.

I wouldn't hit first, whatever their size. But women don't get a free go because they have vaginas (especially as this isn't necessarily the case these days).

So whilst I think the OP's ex is a cunt and does not have the right to hit somebody back in retaliation, not only would he be reasonable to if in a situation he genuinely couldn't get out of (let's face it, that'll be with gangs and weapons, not 5 foot of stroppy female), it is wise to remind girls that hitting first is a fucking idiotic thing to do, as you might meet somebody who is a 6'5" cunt, or 5'6" of 'I've had enough of this shit' and can't see any way out, but is much, much better at it than they are.

Sorry for the warbling. It bothers me that much, I've not structured the reply properly.

@Meadow1203

Just this really. My ex partner is adamant that if a woman hits or slaps a man then it is ok for him to retaliate. He is 6 4 and a very strong man, just a slap would be potentially dangerous. He said he has always advised his daughters never to hit a man as they should expect to be hit back. I am not condoning violence btw, just interested in views on this.

Nobody should hit anyone but if you hit someone you can't complain if the person hits you back (as a general rule). Gender is irrelevant. Don't be a violent thug by going around hitting people.

@MrBrightside1980

NO! Never! Regardless of the situation

So, hypothetically, would you expect your son to get beaten to a pulp rather than defend himself?