Affair aftermath - how do I 'forget' what I know?

[elettra]

We are recovering from an affair; we have made the decision to stay together and I genuinely believe it's the right thing for us as individuals, and for our family. I completely understand that many people in my position would find this unconscionable and think I'm a fool, or naive, or have low self esteem but really none of that is true. This was a mistake, a huge one, but one he massively regrets. There were reasons why it happened, fault on both sides that led to it and we do believe we can recover from it.

He told me of the affair, having finished it with her, but no specifics as understandably I did not want to know. However the woman concerned (I could describe her in other terms but I will try to be polite and dignified) chose to contact me shortly thereafter out of spite and malice, and spewed out - amidst her vitriol about me and him, mainly me - a vast amount of excessively detailed information about their physical interactions, how much sexier he found her than me, where and how they had sex, derogatory comments about my physical attributes etc.

And now I know all this, I can't unknow it. It's 6 months on now but still little snippets keep floating back into my head at random times. I know it was all said to hurt, to upset me, and a lot of it was grossly exaggerated but I can't stop remembering it. I'll be in the bath, or out for a run, or with the children, and it will pop up. Or he'll compliment me, and I'll remember one of her negative comments.

How do I try and forget it? Is that even possible? Do I just need to give it more time?

But to give me chapter and verse, in graphic language about how on X date they did this and that sexual position in this location, and so on and so forth, comparing herself to me and being derogatory about me...that goes beyond being hurt or upset, that's being deliberately malicious.

Of course it is. But she's got no obligation to support your strategy of being ignorant to details that might upset you. I fear this strategy isn't working for you OP. You said you've used it before and were not in a great place before this affair started. Tackling problems in full might give you better closure.

#ball hits the button

And now I know all this, I can't unknow it. It's 6 months on now but still little snippets keep floating back into my head at random times. I know it was all said to hurt, to upset me, and a lot of it was grossly exaggerated but I can't stop remembering it. I'll be in the bath, or out for a run, or with the children, and it will pop up. Or he'll compliment me, and I'll remember one of her negative comments.

Yes, OP, but you got to keep him.

If I were you, I'd keep a record of the advice you go on here, and review it when you have had time to start to get over what has happened. There is usually good advice on these threads, but when you start a thread, you are too raw to see it.

Whether or not you choose in the long run to stay married is your decision. Not his, not the OW's, but yours.

You could write her a nasty letter (I suggest you don't post it if you do).

Hold your head up high, you're the better person.

Katrinawaves

I agree with the previous poster who said Mumsnet is not a good place to canvas opinions or seek advice about recovering from infidelity.

Most cheaters will cheat again, so it's rare for a marriage to be able to truly recover from infidelity. And in any case, the marriage after an affair may well turn out to be a marriage that the deceived spouse isnt happy with, because it'll never be the same as it was beforehand.

My friend left a marriage 5 years after an affair. She was unhappy for the whole of those 5 years, because despite all the talking, counselling, etc, she and her H did, in the end it wasn't enough. He still expected to be forgiven and that life would go on as before. He was only paying lip service to making changes.

I would not stay after an affair, no matter how much I loved someone. Because it isn't about how much I'm loving someone, it's about how little they love me for that affair to happen. In order to get to the point of having sex, the cheater has to cross so many boundaries, so many checkpoints where they have to make an active choice. So you can't trust them.

In OP's case, I feel those intrusive thoughts, that additional information, will not go away until she's processed it all, perhaps with the help of counselling. And when she's reached that point, which may not be immediately, OP may well decide that the conclusions she reaches, means that the marriage is doomed anyway.

OP, I do hope you get the outcome you want, and that you can find some peace.

Yes she was malicious. But he liked her enough (or wanted to use her) enough to do all those things with her. He didn't care enough about you to not do those things because it was what he wanted at the time and as long as he thought he'd get away with it and he had 'no strings' sex, he was all for it.

As you said, he's a grown up so that's the risk he took. That she might react badly to realising she was used and act in an awful manner and cause problems in his marriage and hurt the innocent (you). He knew all that, he thought the sex with her was worth it.

And let's be honest, he wouldn't have stopped if she hadn't have been 'difficult' and refused to carry on being just a wank sock for him.

I know it's hard to hear and people will say 'don't ask MN about affairs' because people will be more honest than they would in RL.

He sounds like an awful person. Not just 'weak'. He used her till she was a problem, while betraying you. Seeing her, having sex with her, feeding her lies and then going home and that day sleeping in the same bed as you and probably having sex with you in the same day. That's who he is and what he's capable of. Not everyone is capable of that, nowhere near.

But your question was how do you forget what she said? You can't. And even if you don't want it to be, your relationship IS forever scarred by what HE did and not what she said.

How can it not be?

Op the OW does sound deliberately malicious, she sounds hurt and angry. But your H is also deliberately malicious, he had the affair. And if he made her feel loved and special and then dumped her - well as you’ve seen some people react very badly to this!

Time will tell whether you can deal with the intrusive thoughts etc. But simply ‘forgetting’ is nigh on impossible. Good idea to keep on the counseling, could help you unravel some stuff and manage these thoughts. Is your H in counseling too? One thing that my ex refused to do was engage with therapy/counseling after he cheated. For me part of not being able to move past it was that I felt I was putting in all the work and he wasn’t. Maybe counseling for both of you - separately and together, could really help.

At the end of last year I also went to a random lecture about how to deal with negative thoughts. It was given by a neuroscientist rather than a psychologist and was really interesting. The technique is German, so I can't offer a link to that specific method, but googling some of the ideas I find this, which is more or less the same: www.avogel.co.uk/health/stress-anxiety-low-mood/steps-to-put-a-stop-to-negative-thinking/ What was useful about the lecture was that she explained how all these things work, but it was a very long lecture and I can't reproduce it :)

@elettra Some people describe discovering an affair as PTSD or PTSD-like symptoms. EMDR therapy might soften the impact of the memories of what was said etc.

But I'm loath to suggest that because I don't think you should forget/ wash away the impact of what he's done.

That pain could help you say you don't deserve this ill treatment and anyone who's treated you that way doesn't deserve you.

I think most people DO cheat at some point in their lives.

@Lickmylegs0 Really? IDK. I think it would definitely show they had a time where they weren't considering their partner.

From experience, I agree with what BeKind said. The advice is good but when you're so raw - and it's only been 6 months so you have at least 18 more months to go before feeling reasonable - the advice can seem designed to wound and hurt. A bit like breaking your leg and someone trying to yank the bones straight without pain relief. I remember falling out with some posters over it. Though I know now that they were right, some of their phrases really really hurt at the time and actually made things a lot worse. That doesn't apply to everyone though. Some are very grateful for the kick in the backside.

You have time. Maybe come back to this and re read it when your feelings aren't bouncing off the walls. It hurts so much doesn't it.

One thing stood out for me in your earlier posts. The fear. What were you afraid of? Losing the man himself (or the person he presented himself as) or losing your life as you know it? Have a really honest think.

Yes, OP, but you got to keep him.

And what a prize to keep.

"Could you take this unwanted gift to the charity shop love, someone in work (the woman I'm fucking behind your back gave it to me but it's not my thing)?"

"I stopped fucking her because it wasn't fun anymore, she started being a demanding, naggy little bitch, the homeymoon period was over"

"My wife's body/vagina/whatever isn't blah any more ... insert criticism here, having impregnated her and watched her give birth to your two children".

Ad no doubt he told op he was doing of things and got her to do more than her fair share of taking care of their kids while he was off shagging the ow (til she became not fun anymore).

Op also surmises that he wouldn't even have confessed has ow not forced him to.

*honeymoon

Two things have happened here.
1, Your husband cheated and had an affair. You were not to blame for this. That was a relational trauma you suffered.
2, A woman verbally assaulted you over and over again with abhorrent and personally insulting messages. That is a frightening and random traumatic verbal assault you have experienced.
If a random woman did this to you on Facebook etc, you'd have gone to the police and also you'd have got a Solicitor to send her a letter to desist harassing you or you would take legal action against her.
Why are you taking responsibility for any of this on yourself?
So what if you were going through a hard time and withdrew from your husband? That doesn't 'cause' someone to have an affair.
Get counselling for yourself so you can devote time to caring for the person who really matters - you.

All the PPs have pretty much said everything.

Why don't you try forgiving the other woman .. why don't you try and see that she was coming from a place of deep hurt and bitterness and forgive her. You don't have to tell her if course, just for yourself.

I think the reason you are still getting these intrusive thoughts are because you have projected all your negative feelings about the whole affair and placed an unnatural amount of the negative feelings on this conversation with this woman.

This woman has never had sex with you , she doesn't know anything about your body or how you act sexually. So why are you allowing her this power? Nobody who hasn't had sex with me gets to have an opinion on me . I suspect its because you worry that the words she said came via your husband. And that is unforgivable.

"Yes OP, but you got to keep him"

See, I think that attitude is so damaging, it's placing the lying, cheating, manipulative, abusive, using spouse as some kind of 'prize' where one woman 'wins' and one 'loses'

He's the shitbag but coming out on top! Because the 'loser' is now the crazy, spiteful one and the 'winner' says he's 'her 'diot' and they're a team, she could've been a better wife and she just needs to forget the crazy womans words to move on.

You said in the first line of your OP. 'We're recovering from his affair'. What's he recovering from? Fucking someone else? Who you think is a bitch and he's just a stupid, weak man?

He must think his dick is made of gold treating 2 women like absolute shit but both still wanting him. It's so common but so, so sad.

When both women should walk away because they both deserve better.

All he's 'learned' is he's so great (even when both women know he's a cheating shit) that no matter how badly he behaves, he's got a woman waiting at home willing to forgive or another waiting to create another home with him. If you'd have chucked him out, he'd have been at her door the same day and found a soft place to land.

that's being deliberately malicious.

And the only reason that she had the opportunity and motivation to be malicious is that your husband got involved with her, had sex with her repeatedly, and (whatever he said to the contrary) gave her the impression they were in a relationship that could go somewhere.

The derogatory things he said about you fuelled that; that he wasn't satisfied with you, that he thought he could do "better" (alongside the fact he was cheating on you full stop).

So she was likely (and understandably) extremely hurt, angry, felt used and taken for a fool, cheated out of her future etc. It would be loveley if everyone could be high minded and dignified in such circumstances, but many people are not ... the whole situation has been orchestrated by your husband.

But do you blame him? Your take is "oh why couldn't he have cheated on me with someone more dignified, then I wouldn't have these intrusive thoughts spoiling my nice life with him".

It's missing the point s much as to be risible, I'm sorry

It's like when you tell a small child they can't have a cake and they tip the whole plate on the floor so no one gets one!

Its easy for you to put the blame in ow. Where do you think he's got those degratory comments from. You're darling husband has been leading this woman on he won't have painted you in a nice light and he would have certainly said all the right things. You're focus is on this womans comments but not really where the comments orignated from which is youre dh.

Wanting to forget these details is just brushing it under the carpet. How on earth is the relationship not permanently scarred? You won't forget this stuff and it won't stop hurting.

Did you really think there was a magic spell you could use to stop the memories hurting?

It's like when you tell a small child they can't have a cake and they tip the whole plate on the floor so no one gets one!

Sorry I forgot to respond to this above.

Well why wouldn't she feel that you two, particularly him (I mean ultimately she's trying to get at him, isn't she; for using and hurting her. She thought telling you the details might contribute to you leaving him, or at the very least him not getting an easy ride because you were ignormat of exatly how he acted or how he spoke abut you) should have your "cake"?

Her life's been affected negatively, why wouldn't she feel his should be too .. and he shouldn't just discard her and tell you whatever he likes about his affair omitting how he truly acted?

I think some of you are piling on th OP here and its getting a bit unkind?
The OP is very clearing struggling or she would not be on here asking for support?
It is easy to to give your own opinion behind a keyboard, but she may be struggling with shock, low mood and trying to understand a betrayal that has changed her whole life.
If this has happened to you did you really benefit from tough love early on or did you want some kind words?
Its very hard to fall out of love with someone immediately and she may have many other reasons for wanting to stay.
All of this takes time in her own timeline.
Sorry if this sounds a bit pious but she is clearly struggling.

It's also almost laughable that you're portraying the ow as a child who wants to spoil everyone's cake .. when you are like a child with your hands over your ears singing lalala, thinking noone else should tel you any truths that might stop from enjoying your (possibly shitty) cake.

To follow on with the cake analogy, your husband has smashed her cake; so why do your expect her not to want to damage you & your husband's cake.

I would say don't try to forget it. You went through a traumatic event (the affair, and your interaction with the other woman), and as with any traumatic event your mind will want to replay it, it's just the mind's way of processing and dealing with it.
When something pops up in your mind, acknowledge it to yourself, then counteract it with another thought. So in the example you gave, he gives you a compliment, you think of something she said, acknowledge that thought and follow up with 'but today he thinks this because he just paid me a compliment'. It takes time and practice like any habit.
More than anything else, keep open and honest communication going between the two of you, be really honest, it's part of your history and you need to be able to talk about it to move on.
One really important thing to work towards is that if you're committing to stay together, you need to genuinely forgive and not hold a grudge. That doesn't mean forget, but you can't hold on to the resentment and throw it back up when you have a row in 5 years time.
It takes strength and courage to stay together so I admire you. People will judge you but ignore them, you know what's right for you and your family. I hope it works out well.

The OP is very clearing struggling or she would not be on here asking for support?

To the contrary the op has been very confident in telling us that she's not here for opinions on whether to leave her dh or not - that she's firmly made her mind up and "he's her idiot".

Then there's the referring ow (who's been messed aeound by her cheating husband) as "unstable" and as a sort of party pooper - to her happiness.

When yo say things to the effect of "oh why couldn't he have had an affair with someone more stable .. less trouble" ... you an expect mindboggled, frustrated, quite robust reponses.

Agree with the pp that said she actually helped you and your dh by giving you a common enemy to bond over.

Although she has also lied in a lot of her communications, things she thought I didn't know, to make it appear there was more to what went on between them. For example, she bought him something for his birthday (which he hated and gave to me to put in the charity bag - he told me it was a gift from his team at work). She said how much he liked it, had it with him all the time - which I knew was BS because I'd taken it to the hospice shop myself.

That doesn't really sound like a huge lie about what went on between them. Maybe he genuinely didn't like what he bought him, not because of his feelings for her, but because it simply wasn't to his taste, he may have lied and said he loved it (as many people do). Not liking the gift isn't really a very good reflection on what want on in their relationship.

It's not possible to forget. Some women try for decades and then leave their husband over a historical affair because they never got over it.

Also people's support might not take the form op wants .. how to have amnesia about nasty things the woman her husband was shagging said, but rather pointing out that her decision might not be best, that this guy is a risk, that he may not be one of the ones who cheats just once (even if that made it acceptable), that he clearly lacks integrity and is capable of huge betrayal and deceit (not just the affair, but being derogatory to her) etc. etc.

You don't get to decide on the opinions/support you get on her - people see the whole picture and if they think an op could be setting themselves up for the same or worse; they naturally want to communicate that. When an op is "quite decided" it's understandable that posters will become harsher in their frustration and attempt to get through to the,

@Ch3at3rs, Back off. You are not helping and not amusing. People who post on here are sometimes in distress, and remember, OP is a human being, a human being who is trying to find her way in a shitty situation.