Affair aftermath - how do I 'forget' what I know?

[elettra]

We are recovering from an affair; we have made the decision to stay together and I genuinely believe it's the right thing for us as individuals, and for our family. I completely understand that many people in my position would find this unconscionable and think I'm a fool, or naive, or have low self esteem but really none of that is true. This was a mistake, a huge one, but one he massively regrets. There were reasons why it happened, fault on both sides that led to it and we do believe we can recover from it.

He told me of the affair, having finished it with her, but no specifics as understandably I did not want to know. However the woman concerned (I could describe her in other terms but I will try to be polite and dignified) chose to contact me shortly thereafter out of spite and malice, and spewed out - amidst her vitriol about me and him, mainly me - a vast amount of excessively detailed information about their physical interactions, how much sexier he found her than me, where and how they had sex, derogatory comments about my physical attributes etc.

And now I know all this, I can't unknow it. It's 6 months on now but still little snippets keep floating back into my head at random times. I know it was all said to hurt, to upset me, and a lot of it was grossly exaggerated but I can't stop remembering it. I'll be in the bath, or out for a run, or with the children, and it will pop up. Or he'll compliment me, and I'll remember one of her negative comments.

How do I try and forget it? Is that even possible? Do I just need to give it more time?

She struck out while devastated ... (and was possibly trying to give you the full picture of your husband's behaviour & character) .... that sort of thing happens when your partner pursues a relationship with another person and then dumps them.

These are the sorts of consequences for women with cheating husbands, and a lot worse ... I always remember about that case in the US (Joey Butafucco) whose (very young) dumped affair partner shot his wife in the face on her doorstep.

The thing is she does sound desperate and a bit strange which is what he realised but pretty much used her as a shag bag until she got too needy and demanding. It’s very unpleasant of him. He used her for a fuck. Did he use protection? Are you safe? Burying your head in the sand isn’t making this go away. How did it start? Did he deliberately go looking? If he did, you know it will happen again because marriage isn’t always perfect. Or you spend the rest of your life waiting and knowing he could be up to no good. You’ve just handed him absolute control of you and your marriage. Will he go to relationship counselling together and answer tricky questions? What are his consequences for what he’s done?

Have you ever thought that maybe she didn't lie about him liking her gift and using it ... that she thought that because he told her that, rather than tell her he didn't like it? How many men do you think tell their bit on the side that he doesn't like or use any gift she gives him?

Anyway it's all trivial nonsense - the reason you have another woman involved in your relationship/life, telling you unpleasant things .. is because your husband involved her in your lives.

She’s done you a huge favour. Now you and your husband have a common enemy

Dear God - is this the best that someone can come up with ? I understand the hatred towards the OW BUT the reality is that HE was the enemy . It doesn't sound as if this man has owned up to this affair at all . You won't ever forget but you have made the choice to stay. It does taint everything .

She knew about me and he didn't tell her he would leave, quite the opposite; in one of her messages she admitted that but said she thought she could change his mind; or that I would leave him once I knew. Or that he would leave me eventually because I 'didn't deserve him or make him happy' hmm.

I seriously doubt he told her he would never ever leave.

Even if he did, in situations like those people naturally think "he wouldn't be here with me if he was happy, if he was satisfied, if he really cared" etc. so they naturally think the person will leave.

Where do you think she got the impression you didn't deserve him or make him happy?
Do you think she'd have had that impression if he'd acted appropriately towards her and faithfully towards you?

Anyway, you're totally focused on the wrong person. If it hadn't been her it would've been some other foolish, vulnerable, poor boundaried woman.

I was an OW and I can confirm what @Ch3at3rs said- he lies his absolute arse off about everything, including his marriage. He tells different lies to different women, depending on his whim or what he think is needed to hook in that particular woman. With some women, I'd say the 'sex' wasn't even consensual as they didn't consent to it under the circumstances as they actually were.

To some women he says his wife is asexual and after ten heroic years of a sexless marriage he finally began to seek a sex life for himself. For other women he says his marriage is effectively over and he's about to leave. To others he doesn't mention having a wife at all.

I've written his wife a letter I'm going to send her in a few weeks, to let her know what he's got upto for decades with many different women and men. It's because I think she has a right to know. (And no, he didn't dump me- I blocked him because I realized what he was like.) I don't have any bad feelings towards her at all- I feel for her as she probably feels stuck living with this person who is treating her badly in all sorts of ways; I've heard from others that he can talk to her very nastily, to me he always moaned about any present she gave him etc etc and also told her her presents were shit. He's disabled and she does a lot for him and yet he's doing all this behind her back. I think she has the right to be informed about her own life so that she can decide how she wants to spend the rest of her life.

@elettra Why do you think (genuinely) he told you about the affair? Was it to try and make you act in ways he wanted? Could it've been because she was on the verge of telling you? Etc etc. And no, it's not your fault. xxx

I don't know, I have had pregnancies and vaginal births and I don't care that someone who hasn't did that is tighter than me.

I don't think that they are better than me. I think you need to work on your own self esteem, I would have laughed at that comment .. do you not see how low she is willing to go? How hurt she is? It's not like she said your husband said that she was better able to.please him? Well not in that way. I think you suggested in other ways... Maybe.

So you're like every woman in the world who has had a vaginal birth, you aren't as tight as you once were. There's no insult there if you think about it. It's a pathetic attempt to bring you down. Please don't let it work.

But when someone sends you a message telling you that having not given birth they are better able to satisfy a man than you (who has had 2 vaginal births) - but in more graphic detail and language of course, that kind of thing is pretty hard to forget.

Again, you wouldn't had to have seen something, or think about it, if your husband and father of those kids, hadn't been dipping his wick in her vagina.

While even sensible, mature, strong boundaried, dignified, principled, discerning women may occasionally still be drawn into cheating situations; the reality is more likely that a woman your husband drew into cheating with him, would not be those things .... so your question about why he couldn't have cheated with someone more stable/less malicious is null and void.

When he decided to cheat, he was extremely likely to be introducing an immature, volatile woman into your lives .... made a hundred times more so by the hurt and anger of being used and dumped, like he did to her.

Honestly I think he ended it because he was done with it, it had stopped being fun (from what he says which she corroborates she was pressing him to leave, it wasn't just some fun sex but had become arguing and bickering). But I think he only told me because he was concerned that she might/ would, and wanted to get in first. And yes I know that hardly paints him in a flattering light.

He is very flawed. I'm far from perfect, but he has been exceptionally weak, stupid, cliched, I could go on and on but you get the picture. He is an idiot, but he is my idiot, we are a team, and we are moving past this. I believe he does appreciate what he has, and so nearly lost.

I know some people are repeatedly unfaithful; others never are. The rest are somewhere in between. I don't think he will cheat again. I won't be policing his movements or anything - I never have, and don't intend to start now.

I have many positives in my life - a good career where I'm respected and have a lot of autonomy, I'm financially independent, lovely children (well at times!), I've given myself a bit of an image revamp - cut and coloured my hair, lost weight, although some of that is creeping back on again now, and I feel and look better than I have for 20 years. I need to focus on this more when I get these intrusive thoughts.

She shouldn't have said those awful things but he created this situation by having an affair. Even the most 'stable' people can do out of character things when they've been treated badly. And that's not to say that she's innocent in all this, because she isn't but I guarantee a lot of the things she said will have come from things he told her. Even if she did twist them a little.

He might be a 'good guy who made a mistake' but equally, he may have showed her the callous disregard for her feelings that he did for yours, it's very easy for some men to come out of these situations looking like the 'victim' of a womans seeming emotional instabilty when it's their manipulative and emotionally abusive behaviour that caused it.

I'm so sorry he did this to you.

I had some counselling prior to lockdown, and am hoping to be able to resume it soon. I found it helpful but we'd not really covered off this issue around what had been said so that's something I would like to explore with my counsellor.

@elettra I think most therapy works well via video link, and most therapists are offering that, so it might be worth asking your counsellor about.

But when someone sends you a message telling you that having not given birth they are better able to satisfy a man than you (who has had 2 vaginal births) - but in more graphic detail and language of course, that kind of thing is pretty hard to forget.

Remember that you are a whole individual, how you are physically or in bed doesn't define you. You have a whole personality on top of that. If your husband doesn't appreciate that then he's an arsehole.

And if she is truly barking- that proves he uses vulnerable women for sex.

She’s done you a huge favour. Now you and your husband have a common enemy

Dear God - is this the best that someone can come up with ? I understand the hatred towards the OW BUT the reality is that HE was the enemy.

@TheStuffedPenguin I didn't see the PP as meaning it that way- I saw it as meaning it's very convenient/useful that they can hate on the OW but that that isn't a good thing if you see what it mean, as it distracts OP from what he personally has done. So they were saying exactly what you are saying.

The married man didn't tell me he would leave his wife BTW- but that doesn't make what he did ok. He told me other lies about her. He also said he stays with her for financial/practical reasons, pretty much a marriage of convenience.

It was mainly about sex but honestly he made himself out to be some sort of long suffering hero, and the only reason he doesn't tell his wife what he gets upto is because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings. This is almost funny- but of course it's not. To some other women he says his wife knows about and permits his affairs.

I just found out my husband has been online cheating, who promises he hasn't met anyone. And I'm not even sure if I can forgive it or forget it right now...

I think it's disgusting what the woman has done, giving you details of the affair, I'm very sorry to hear that... says more about her than anybody else...

I can't improve on FizzyGreenWater's post, but there are points I'd like to make.

I don't know the whole story, but regardless of the OW's state of mind, your husband has been unfaithful.

The OW was foolish in thinking that he would leave, but cheats can lie through their back teeth.

The OW isn't the enemy, your DH is. He has lied and cheated.

It is up to you whether or not you kick him out, but forget about the OW, and focus on yourself, and your children.

And for anyone else reading, if a man who is already attached is sniffing around you, leave well alone, nobody gets out of it unscathed.

@FizzyGreenWater

You need to aproach this in a different way. You are, like anyone in your position, absolutely desperate to 'other' her as much as possible, to put as much distance between them as possible, as people, as moral beings, in the way you view the world - you have to, because you have chosen to stay with him.

She doesn't sound 'unbalanced' - she sounds like a person who reacted with anger and spite to a hurtful situation. She richly deserved to be hurt and she was a low cow to be OW and take part in an affair... but the lower one, the one who perhaps you should be 'describing in other terms' is the husband who made his vows to you. But you are having to twist yourself in knots now to not do this, because you are staying. So - you are aligning yourself with him, reinforcing to yourself the idea of 'him and you' as the sensible, moral, normal pair and she is the evil outlier - 'could you not have picked someone more normal?'.

This will not work and it is not working (the intrusive thoughts) because you know you are pretending, to a certain extent. You are right in the middle of a very painful process and it's painful because the reality is, you and he are not the pair - he and her are the pair, the abnormal, the ones who did it together. Those thoughts are coming in not because they're nasty things that someone 'not normal' said to hurt you. If they were it would be easy to not give them a second thought. They are coming in because they are things they did and enjoyed.

I am not saying this to kick you when you are down. I couldn't stay in this situation, but I think if you do you need to reframe it. Build up that strength NOT by trying to mentally 'pull' him back in to your pair as the 'good normal' one. Instead take the focus off him. You know he is a shit, he is the same as her. Ok, accept that for now. Move that focus on to YOU. You are choosing to stay... for now. Maybe you are going to need the strength one day to decide you won't. Make that a power you have. A new realisation. Build YOU up... alone. As a strong person, and especially - a strong person without him. Focus on friendships. On things that interest you. Get counselling - NOT couples counselling, but for you. To grow yourself as a person. Those thoughts? Yes, he did all that shit. Accept it and then move the thoughts on to YOU.

One day, you will be through this painful part of the process and you will see that you have adjusted to a new normal. He will, however, still have done these things. But if you do the above, then just maybe, when you get to that end point it's YOU you won't recognise - not him. And that will be a massive, massive positive both if you do eventually decide to properly stay, for the years into the future, or not. You will have equipped yourself to be a person who stays because they don't need to.

All this will bells on

In the nicest possible way OP, I don't think you are a fool, or have low self esteem but I do think you can't help but be naive to what an awfully difficult task is ahead. Betrayal trauma is real.

It is only going to work if he is the one googling, posting in forums for advice and using it!, seeking counselling to try to learn how to heal the trauma he has caused you and why he did it, reading books to help YOU. If he doesn't take the lead here, no matter what you do, your heartache won't heal in this marriage and you will end up leaving.

There are better websites than here for trying to work through an affair. Affair recovery I think it is called.

Honestly, your last post makes him sound abusive. Not just to you by cheating, but to her.

Quite happy to get what he wanted out of her till she actually had some wants and needs of her own and then he just wants to walk away from her because he's had his fun and would have never told you if he thought she wouldn't.

While he spent weeks or months quite happy to string her along while lying to you and betraying you every day and only being 'sorry' when you were about to find out.

Sounds like he's done a good number on you. The language you use - he was 'weak, stupid, an idiot' and not a liar, user, manipulative (you and her) etc. Why are unfaithful men 'weak'? Could he not help himself having sex with her? There were a thousand boundaries he crossed before it got to the point he was putting his dick in her. And at each point he knew where it was leading and wanted to carry on. And then again and again till she got a bit difficult, arguing with him or wanting something from him rather than just happily giving him sex. Sounds like he thought 'how dare she, cheeky bitch!' rather than seeing her like a human being and not just an object designed to meet his needs.

And you're admitting you were at least a bit at fault....shutting him out etc.

You played your part in him cheating and you think she was an unstable, vindictive bitch but he was just a bit weak and stupid. And your focus is on what she said while he just puts the dunce hat on (poor boy) because he's 'your idiot' and 'you're a team'.

She thinks you don't deserve him because he led her to think that by what he said about you. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the first or last time. Sorry, to me he sounds very far from a weak idiot and is actually a bloke very good at getting what he wants out of women while pitting them against each other.

You don't ever forget it, you accept it and learn to live with it. If you are planning on working through it sometimes it's best to know the details, but everyone is different

BTW I don't think you OP played ANY part in him cheating, but he seems to have made you feel that you did.

Yeah you’re never going forget true words or get the mental images out of your head. I’ve been there. In the end, I left about a year after I found out, it was too much for me. He was annoyed when I left because apparently I wasn’t ‘trying hard enough’

Either way, it’s only up to you what you can put up with in terms of intrusive thoughts etc. but it doesn’t go away I can tell you that much. It’s up to you to accept it and live with it if that is what you decide to do.

I believe he does appreciate what he has, and so nearly lost.

And what you have is a cheat. Talking about you to her is a betrayal on a betrayal. Fizzy water has it nailed

I'm coming off of Mumsnet , these threads just make me sad. How can the one person who causes all the hurt be the one that gets protected? This isn't right, your husband betrayed you and your children for fun? He lied and used another person in order to get that fun? And you and the other woman are both obviously deeply hurt and where the fuck is he? He hasn't even had to explain himself properly. I am sorry this happened to you OP. You didn't deserve it. And I hope to God you got your makeover for you and not your husband. Good luck.

Sorry first sentence is supposed to say ‘those words’ instead of ‘true words’ - though I guess there is some truth to the autocorrect!

She believed what he told her just as you believe what he tells you.

Do you really think she would have told you how much he loved his gift if she knew he’d given it to you to go to the charity shop? He likely would have told her he loved it. Maybe he did, but it was a symbol of his betrayal so he told you a different story.

Your husband is a liar. You need to realise that you shouldn’t believe what he told you any more than she should.

It makes me very uncomfortable to read about her being classed as unstable. I know someone who was the OW (although she didn’t know she was). When she found out he told her that his wife was unstable. These women are never unstable enough to not remain married to or have an affair with though are they?

She hasn’t acted well (to put it mildly), but she never promised you anything either.

As I said, everyone makes mistakes.

I'm not minimising what he has done, but I know he knows what a serious error it was, and how catastrophic the consequences could have been. Also that we are not out of the woods yet by a long stretch, he is working on himself and has good insight already into why he took the road he did.

I can't guarantee it will never happen again of course. But like I said, could I say hand on heart if I'd had a chance I wouldn't at least have been tempted. I can't. And if I was tempted, I'd describe myself as weak too. I use no different words on him than I would apply to myself if I'd done what he has.

The last few months have been tough, but in some ways more honest and open than the last few years were, and that feels like a positive. It's not been OTT, we've not hysterically bonded, but we have talked and discussed more than in a long time, and I hope we can and will continue to do so. Obviously there's no quick fix and it can't nor should be brushed under the carpet.

What an utterly vile woman she is to spew all that out. Scummy.