Page 9 | Husband’s secret email to his ex - what does it mean?

DarkHelmet · 07/07/2020 09:42

shimmer if I didn't know better I'd say you're married to my exh! Counselling was no good for us either, he lied and charmed and suddenly o was the emotional and financial abuser. It wasn't just the counsellor he lied to. Friends, family, police (when I had to call them on him for destructive behaviour).. he turned it all round on me somehow. Very, very manipulative man.

When I left, he turned everyone against me. It's taken 6 years to rebuild myself.

I don't know what your plans are for the future, but I really hope they involve leaving this situation.

9millioncansofbeans · 07/07/2020 10:40

@Shimmerpowder yes all the time. He’s favourite Saying was “I can’t quite recall” Super convenient. I ended up feeling like I was going mad and then gathered evidence. Even with hard evidence the. He turned on the emotive crying nonsense and I still felt like maybe I had it wrong.

Finally I moved out for space and found him on tinder, screen shot everything, confronted him. He got tied up in a web of lies even he couldn’t get out of. Having told me he only downloaded the app once I moved out as he was so distraught. Yet a week after I moved out he told me he wouldn’t do anything to jeopardise our marriage and he would wait for me and give me space.
Then 18 months later I found he had had started seeing someone less than a month after I moved out and they are still together. He lied about that too. He has learnt nothing.

Honestly, it’s only 3 years later that I can feel no guilt over leaving him and realise he was just not a good partner to me who made me doubt my own reality rather than admit he had done something wrong. I wouldn’t put up with a friend doing that to me so I don’t know why I did from him for so long

Vodkacranberryplease · 07/07/2020 10:57

There you go. I take no satisfaction in being right 😕. It's awful. This is what they do. They rip your support out from under you and are credible beyond belief.

The marriage counselling was a waste of time as you now know and unless your current counsellor knows what they are dealing with that won't help either - I had two long stretches of therapy and neither were able to help me. They shed no light on his behaviour and it was just about how I felt - and I felt no different until I saw my final counsellor.

Also known as a solicitor, who magically healed me virtually overnight by listening to the events I laid out, and explaining exactly how I could get rid of him - and that in no way gave a fuck about his feelings, or life, or tried to be balanced or involved talking to him or trying strategies. It didn't involve me learning to be calm by using meditation (a favourite. Doesn't work when one of these is in your life) or setting 'boundaries' or any of that shit that basically says "this is partially your fault and you can improve it".

He's actually a mediator as well as a solicitor. But he knew once I told him what was happening this wasn't a mediation thing.

Save your money. Don't try to fix you, or him, fix the situation by getting out. It's is the only option, I promise.

Socialdistancegintonic · 07/07/2020 11:19

Yes. He has painted me as his emotional abuser. I was devastated when I found out that was how he was portraying me for getting upset about being lied to. Happened to me too. Ex STILL portrays me as emotionally abusive and controlling, even though all his family know that he cheated on me, kept the house and most of the money while I am struggling with our child full-time... and his family have his full sympathy as they seemed to lap up the idea that it was my fault and not his... which was like a double stabbing in the back.

Be careful now OP, if he is calling you emotionally abusive - but attempting to cheat - this is no longer a man who has been just foolish and a bit selfish - this is an extremely unhealthy dynamic that is unlikely to change. Your relationship is abusive and it is not you doing the abuse. Telling other people that you are emotionally abusive is extremely undermining and sly. He is perfectly capable of leaving if he wanted. People being abused do not contact Exes and try and start affairs, they do not lie and crucially, they do not hold the emotional power. Who holds the emotional power?

MashedPotatoBrainz · 07/07/2020 11:25

I feel for you too. He's done a good job on you, playing with your mind until you don't know which way is up. He's a liar. It's as simple as that. You can't change it, you can't counsel him out of it. It's who he is. You just have to decide if this is what you want in life. Is this how you want it to be for the rest of your life? If you don't, then you need to leave. (and claim your medal for putting up with his shit for so long.)

DeeCeeCherry · 07/07/2020 11:28

quite a privilege to know someone as clever and funny as you, and to be able to pick up so quickly after not having seen you for years felt very life affirming

Cringe.

He's ego stroking and you need to talk to him about all this OP. Not a long talk, short and straight to the point. Stay on topic don't let him waffle. Then decide what you want to do in terms of being with a man who very obviously wants his ex back. The cheek of him.

Socialdistancegintonic · 07/07/2020 11:35

And agree about counselling. I went twice. At one at the end of it the counsellor incredibly did say that she ‘felt a bit of the frustration that I felt’ and told Ex to get his own counseling ‘To work through his change ability and indifference’ otherwise we could never work! I was really pleased.

Ex didn’t go of course. Then I reminded him, and he did. He convinced the new counselor that it was terrible being with me - and couldn’t understand ‘why I made him so angry’. And came out of that with renewed anger towards me as ‘he’d worked out that he was so angry with me as I never listened to him’... aaarghhh! So no insight at all. And then proceeded to tell his family that ‘I made him go for counseling on his own’ and not me... so basically telling them all that I was abusive to him! You couldn’t make it up. Even though I did also go for my own counseling, but had to stop as my counselor was almost in tears every time that I described my life, and it was kind of awful as I realized too how awful it was, but I had to keep it together for my kids.

And now looking back, the amazing thing is that I didn’t even get to mention at any of those many, many counseling sessions with my Ex - that he CHEATED! Imagine that, all that time, and I couldn’t even express one of the most painful parts of the relationship for me... because he had somehow dominated and controlled those sessions. Every time I got near talking about anything meaningful, he would say that he didn’t want to be in the relationship anyway and I was deluded. So effectively shut any relationship talk down. Why talk about the relationship if he didn’t want to be in it? So I’d then say why bother going to counseling, and he’d say... but maybe... there might be hope...

Slippery snakes! Honestly wasted years. We have love to give! Warmth, affection, loyalty and friendship. Let’s find someone who will give it back too and will appreciate it. Our lives are too bloody short for these men!

(Apologies... rant over... slightly triggered I think! As are way too many women... )

Socialdistancegintonic · 07/07/2020 11:39

@DeeCeeCherry

quite a privilege to know someone as clever and funny as you, and to be able to pick up so quickly after not having seen you for years felt very life affirming

Cringe.

He's ego stroking and you need to talk to him about all this OP. Not a long talk, short and straight to the point. Stay on topic don't let him waffle. Then decide what you want to do in terms of being with a man who very obviously wants his ex back. The cheek of him.

On a separate note - the ego stroking is worrying and stands out - as clever and funny as you - as it so reminds me of my Ex - it shows he is practiced at this - and that he wants to control the situation with words. He has specifically picked some traits, as he knows it is often the key to getting sex and gaining that power. Normal people are not this slick. He is a predator.

PAND0RA · 07/07/2020 11:44

OP - does he seem laid back and charming to everyone else while you seem upright and irrationally angry ?

Because that’s a clear sign that you are living with someone who is passive aggressive. You mentioned this upthread and some posters dismissed it but I think you are correct.

Raidblunner · 07/07/2020 12:15

Definitely call him out, he's not showing any respect for you and is pursuing his own agenda. Don't waste any more time.

caringcarer · 07/07/2020 12:24

What I kept going said. This is definitely s betrayal of trust. He is trying it on with the ex. I would be getting ducks in a row. Print off email in case he deleted it.

Vodkacranberryplease · 07/07/2020 12:27

@PAND0RA I think that it wasn't so much dismissing his passive aggressiveness because he IS. But saying that's just one symptom of a much wider problem.

Yes he's passive aggressive. And also dishonest, manipulative, charming, credible, and without any understanding of how other people feel. Passive aggressive is the least of the OPs worries here maybe.

The damage these people do to your mental health is massive. Never to be underestimated. It can take years to recover and invariably involves starting again - though if you build up your own network of friends and allies first and use an expert solicitor that makes a world of difference.

@Shimmerpowder just a note re a solicitor etc - sometimes if you have a good one and it's clear there's no redress or way they can get at you they go without much fuss. It's the gaps they can wiggle through that cause the problems. You have to be much more ruthless and surgical than you want to be, and super prepared with timelines, evidence, financial records etc.

And you have to give them little to no warning, and shoot to kill. I did the softer option first time around and he got six months to almost fuck the company. Which he tried his very best to do. I honestly thought he might be able to behave himself knowing what could (and did) happen but nope. Not one bit.

I strongly advise separating your finances before you even think about talking to him or doing anything though. Anyone who thinks nothing of trashing your reputation is someone that is potentially quite dangerous to you. Not physically but he can and will completely ruin your future.

Also not sure if you have kids etc but if so be aware that in family court apparently 80% of people accuse the other of being a psychopath or narcissist and people like this will always accuse you of stuff - so cold hard proof, but actually the judges don't care. Or believe anything without evidence, but mostly they don't care.

Joycegrose · 07/07/2020 12:29

Dont react quickly, ask him. Let him describe the situation. And ask him why he was hiding the conversation from you.

Vodkacranberryplease · 07/07/2020 12:34

Also I think don't call him out on the email!!!! In fact play your cards right and you might even get him to run off to her. Which will feel like being stabbed in the heart but will be fantastic longer term because then he's no longer your problem!!!

I love his shit about your 'powerful energy' or whatever the phrase he used was. It's code for 'not easily controlled by me therefore of no further use'

I'm not sure what it stands for but I've heard people refer to DARVO. Here's a link and if you google it there's loads more medium.com/the-ascent/one-way-to-disarm-gaslighters-understand-darvo-8e0aeb184f7

I think you'll run the gamut of emotions and will be devastated but at least you will know what's going on.

And I'll say it again complete with flowers.

Its not you, it's him

ElizabethAlexandraMary · 07/07/2020 13:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the request of the OP.

Buggedandconfused · 07/07/2020 13:30

There is no point with therapy, it’s a known fact that narcissists and sociopaths don’t respond to it as they lie and manipulate. My ex abuser also called me the abuser. He was 6’6” and was physically and verbally abusive. I’m 5’6 and slight. Go figure! You can’t win or get any healthy resolve with these people, all you can do is let them control everything, lie, manipulate and abuse. One day they will discard you for someone better - is this what you want your life to be OP?

OVienna · 07/07/2020 13:32

The marriage counselling was a waste of time as you now know and unless your current counsellor knows what they are dealing with that won't help either - I had two long stretches of therapy and neither were able to help me. They shed no light on his behaviour and it was just about how I felt - and I felt no different until I saw my final counsellor.

Also known as a solicitor, who magically healed me virtually overnight by listening to the events I laid out, and explaining exactly how I could get rid of him - and that in no way gave a fuck about his feelings, or life, or tried to be balanced or involved talking to him or trying strategies. It didn't involve me learning to be calm by using meditation (a favourite. Doesn't work when one of these is in your life) or setting 'boundaries' or any of that shit that basically says "this is partially your fault and you can improve it".

Save your money. Don't try to fix you, or him, fix the situation by getting out. It's is the only option, I promise.

I need to call this out as literally the best advice I have ever read on Mumsnet. @Vodkacranberryplease

Vodkacranberryplease · 07/07/2020 15:45

Ah thank you @OVienna!

I can tell you it was a bloody long journey getting to the point I had it to give though! Because they make you believe that you have no options, no support, no friends, no talent and no way out.

I spent years frantically searching for a way to either manage him, manage myself or get out.

Managing him and myself were impossible. Getting out seemed like a dream until I spent an hour or so with a wonderful solicitor. Best therapy ever

boymum9 · 07/07/2020 18:34

@shimmerpowder op, I've just briefly glanced over this thread and just wanted to add in some opinion...!!
Firstly, I'm sorry you're going through this, he sounds impossible to deal with and a lot like my ex dh, compulsive liar, lies about everything even when he doesn't need to! Offers up information which is riddled with lies when he doesn't even need to in the first place! After 15 years of lies I told him 1.5 years ago that I'd had enough and wanted to separate. We tried counselling and it was pointless, he just lied about things that were so obvious sometimes I'd catch the disbelief on the councillors face. She struggled to deal with him and he felt she was against him so we stopped seeing her. Since then there has been lies and controlling behaviour no end, lies about huge huge things, little things and everything in between. Now I am more able to identify this behaviour and it's not so entwined in my life I feel such a huge huge relief to not have to question everything that's being said to me and have so little trust that it was constantly on my mind thinking I was going crazy! You will feel that relief also if you leave someone that constantly lies to you

P999 · 07/07/2020 21:43

Another one here who has experienced exactly the same. 15 years, 2 kids but now 2 years free of it. I have never suggested to anyone on MN to leave, until now. OP. Please get some counselling if you need it, but please aim to leave as soon as you can muster the strength. It will never change.

OVienna · 08/07/2020 12:59

@Vodkacranberryplease There is always so much emphasis on counselling. I get it - people don't want to bring their problems to the next relationship, kids often involved, sunk cost fallacy. I suppose I think it's different when a couple can point to a specific period of time where things are going well (and not only because one of the partners THOUGHT they were going well but were being deceived.)

But - counselling can become another route to abuse too and I think it is vital that people considering it hear from people it didn't work for and why.

SandyY2K · 08/07/2020 13:32

My ex abuser also called me the abuser. He was 6’6” and was physically and verbally abusive. I’m 5’6 and slight.

Sorry, I had to pick up on this point.

Size alone doesn't mean one cannot be abusive and most.
women who are abusive are physically smaller than their partners.

FizzyGreenWater · 08/07/2020 13:36

Focus on you.

Get yourself strong - really really strong.

Box clever with money

Then leave him.

Original poster

Shimmerpowder · 08/07/2020 14:47

I have found this immensely eye-opening, encouraging and supportive. I had counselling today and we seemed to reach a new level, thanks to you lot. I posted on Saturday about that message because I was wondering at what point I’d say enough was enough.
Since then, I wrote out the whole story but decided not to post because it was 1. Incredibly long 2. Maybe a bit too easy to identify us if someone who knows us happens to read it.Last year my DH had an intense emotional affair with a work colleague (so congrats to those who spotted he was capable of that!) and we are in a v small community where life and work are intertwined so I have to be careful. The problem is, if you live with something long enough, your boundaries get warped. Hearing that he’d clearly crossed them with that email to his ex ALONE has helped me reset them.
Thanks for sending me strength and amazing advice. The feeling of not being alone/mad has been so helpful, I wish I could thank everyone individually. 💐💐 to you all.

OP posts:

Flittingabout · 08/07/2020 14:50

You are not going mad.

He isn't worthy of your love.