He needs to “win”. Is this gaslighting or just being a d*ck?

[Melandri]

Has anyone dealt with a really argumentative partner who doesn’t see themselves that way?

My partner picks at anything until he finds a disagreement or a reason to fall out.

Recently he told me he doesn’t like the way I need to go for a walk when I’m frustrated or upset, especially if it’s fairly late, and would I mind not doing it because he worries.

I said fair enough but I do like a bit of space to clear my head but I won’t go out at night if he’ll worry (it doesn’t happen often btw, maybe twice in the last few months.)

I thought that was the end of the conversation but no.

He then said “if you did still want to go for a walk, would you tell me?” To which I replied “of course, I’m always honest with you and there’d be no reason not to tell you”

He then said:
“Are you calling me a bullshitter?”

I was so surprised at the direction that this took but said “no, of course not”.

He’s now saying that because I said I’m honest, I’ve indirectly said that he’s not.
It’s been over 24 hours now and he’s still really worked up over it even though I’ve told him I dong feel that way and don’t think that and definitely didn’t imply it or didn’t mean to.

Anyway, after lots of shouting and arguing from him, and me staying calm and telling him that I don’t think he’s a bullshitter he’s summed it up saying that the issue is that I don’t understand.

I said “I do” and he replied saying “no you don’t”.

I’ve asked him what I can do to help us move on and he said his lost where he is with everything but he won’t back down because that will mean I’ve won. I don’t see it as winning or losing I just think there’s been a bit of confusion and rather than letting it go he’s clinging to it.

I don’t know why he’s like this. Can anyone help?

[Note from MNHQ - 22/11/2020: please note there is a recent update from the OP].

I feel your pain here. It’s absolutely exhausting and relentless you must leave this relationship because it will wear you down mentally.
My ex frequently picks fights with me and calls me manipulative and unreasonable for having any opinion that differs to his. When I tell him not to call me those words he says ‘see - you’re telling me I’m being horrible by saying you’re unreasonable which I haven’t’ even though the whole conversation is in black and white - he literally denies reality whether it’s in physical proof or not.
Anything you do he will be able to start an argument about.
Another example - he demanded our DD this weekend on a day that wasn’t his day we argued about it but basically I ended up messaging him saying I’ll offer an olive branch etc I don’t want tension or anything blah blah really polite message to which he responds with paragraphs and paragraphs saying ‘I’m shocked by your message the fact that you’re saying you’re offering an olive branch implies I’m a horrible person etc etc’

Honestly. His messages make me feel physically exhausted. It must be a very strange to have a mindset that’s so thirsty for confrontation.

He has one thing right. You two are not compatible as a couple. Cut your losses for both yours sakes without trawling through the details of the incompatibility and/or assigning blame.

Op dont go on your own to fetch your things. Take somebody with you

you tell me you understand what's happened but from where I am even I can see that you aren't on board with what I'm trying to explain to you, to me you understand from your point of view not mine
Don't engage with the discussion. Just agree with him. Yes, you're right, we see things very differently. It's not going to work.

I'd either go with a friend to get your stuff or if you have a key, get it when he's not there.

I wouldn't give him a heads up that you are leaving or getting your stuff- he will absolutely give you the runaround with it in order to keep some control and talk you round. He'll be out. Your stuff will disappear and you'll need to rearrange a time. We'l meet so I can give you your stuff and you can explain to me, I deserve that at least, blah.
Don't entertain it.

Ask a friend or preferably two whether they'll accompany you to get your stuff.

The only reply worth giving to anything he says now is the reply which gets him shut the fuck up and out of your life. So yes I'd send any placatory reply that works tbh. 'I see what you're saying. Probably best we have a little bit of space for the day/evening and talk when we've both calmed down. I need X which is at yours so I'll have to pop round but let's talk on Friday... Whatever works.

Then turn up with friends and instead of collecting X, you collect the lot and BYEEEEE.

Him - endless texts

You - We clearly weren't suited. Good luck for the future. Don't contact me again.

This post has been quite inspiring to read OP, and I hope you are sorting out your exit as I type this. From one people pleaser to another, we HAVE to learn that we are not here to meet anyone else's expectations and we certainly don't have to see everything from someone else's perspective, especially when they are abusing us. I wish you all the best for packing up and leaving and regaining your own life and taking a bloody walk whenever the hell you want to! He sounds so suffocating and I am so pleased you are exiting. Take a deep breath and thank your lucky stars you are getting out now. Minimise contact with him from here on in. Find a sexual partner who is interested in your prompts and likes as well as his own. Good luck!!

Also, his message! He's not very articulate is he? Not a very intellligent man at all, going by that nonsensical bit of verbal diarrhoea.

WTF is he on about?
It really is all me me me!!!
YOU must understand MY point of view - yours does not matter.
In one text there are over 20, yes 20, I, me, I'm!!!!
You need to run OP.
Well done for recognising something was amiss and posting here.
He is a complete head fuck!

we’re both early 30s, he’s never lived with anyone
What a fucking surprise...... NOT!!!!!!

I wouldn't give him a heads up to be honest. That way madness lies.
If you can, take someone with you tomorrow.
Turn up as planned and just get your things and run!!
Far and fast..... THE HILLS ARE THAT WAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

He’s now saying that because I said I’m honest, I’ve indirectly said that he’s not.

This level of overraction and bullshit would make me think he probably is not honest even if I hadn't thought so in the first place.

OP, life's too short for this shit, get away from what sounds like an exhausting, confusing relationship that makes you unhappy more often that it gives you joy before you wake up 17 years and 3 kids in and realise the man lying next to you doesn't love you and isn't trying and hasn't even got the balls to admit it.

Well there he is, telling you that you must think like he does or you are being unfair to him!

Take a friend. Collect your stuff.

Tell him you agree, it is a stalemate and there is no compormise that will work. Goodbye

I don´t really understand what he is upset about. I didn't understand in the first post and I understand even less in his last message. He sounds like a complete headfuck. Glad you see that and are going to get rid.

This man sounds so dangerous @Melandri

It's only 8 months in what should be the honeymoon period of this relationship and he is already winding you in web of gaslighting, twisting thoughts, controlling your movements, biting you hard, which doesn't sound like you consented to (?) pestering you for sex.

If he is like this now, what would he be like if you were to make yourself more vulnerable by moving in with him?

There’s a mental health history with his mother, she was admitted to a psychiatric hospital...
There isn’t any history there with his own mental health - does the apple fall far from the tree?
I'm not sure I'd want to find out, in this case. You cannot fix him or change yourself enough to be what he wants because he will forever be changing the parameters of your relationship with him. He will get you to the stage where you'll be walking on eggshells trying to anticipate what he'll say or do or want next.

Is there any way of someone like this changing or is that how they are?
This is how he is now. At his best.

at the slightest disagreement or wrong word he says that “we might as well rip the plaster off, you know where the door is.”

I sincerely hope you are going to run from this relationship and don't look back.

Because... picture yourself financially dependent on him, living in his space, or married to him, bound forever by children with him. How does that feel?

Yes I think you should collect your belongings but not on your own. And don't get into a discussion about that with him beforehand because how do you think he'll react when he realises you are taking yourself out of his influence?

Please don't settle because you were building a potential future with him. Just read through some of the other threads on Relationships- or just the responses in your own thread and back away. I really hope you do.

Good luck. 🌹

Agreed you shouldn't go alone, take a friend with you. Maybe you could just tell him you'll be over at x time, then tell him when you get there you don't see a future and need to collect your things.

Basically 'admit you are entirely in the wrong so that I can win and know that I have the green light to continue head fucking you'.

OP he is a narcissist or similar. You'll never have a peaceful, happy life with him. He'll drain your soul bit by bit like the vampire he is.

So glad you saw it before you moved in with him.

I wouldn't even bother replying to that message. Just go collect your things with your mate asap and dump him at the time. 'This clearly isn't working for either of us'. Then block him on everything as soon as you are out.

Even better if you could get your stuff somehow then break up by text after you are out again...

Woah!
Sounds like a nightmare. My guess would be a fragile ego, which usually equates to highly defensive behaviour, insecurity and the need to always be right. Men like this are hard work as you could say something totally innocuous to them and they will swear are being mean to them. Big babies, in a nutshell.

Hope you're ok OP.
Don't go alone and don't engage further
You can do much better than this guy.

Sooo much good advice here and very relatable experiences. Collective Mumsnet is oh, so wise and wonderfully supportive.
Read all the posts op, close your eyes, harden up your heart for the moment and do the only thing that will be right for you in the long term - leave him for a better life and better relationships.

If you'd like to start a family in your 30s, don't waste time with this me, me, me insecure loser. He will never change. There are way better humans out there.
This one will be the same/worse for you and would treat kids the same way. I used to watch my ex pick pointless battles with his children (yes, he would even argue the point of every matter with a small child), pointless battles with the rest of the family (falling out and getting back all the time) and.. Well, let's just say a healthy dose of "easy going" is at the top of my list in a partner now.
Leave now and soon enough, you will be very grateful to yourself and Mumsnet.

Of course he was nice to you most of the time. You wouldn’t have gone out with him otherwise. The fact you have already had rows and disagreements and have needed to take a walk to clear your head would be enough to end things.

Add in the exhausting word-twisting, offence-taking, argument-starting, sofa-groping and sex-biting - you don’t need to doubt yourself love. Really.

Don’t settle for this, 32 is not too old to meet someone who isn’t like this. And now you know what this type of person looks like you’re better armed to avoid a repeat!

Exh used to do this. He grew up in an argumentative household with lots of emotional blackmail, competitiveness and put downs. He would pick a really random fight so he could get an outcome to suit himself. I got counselling in the end as I thought I was going mad!

It felt like his behaviour was trying to recreate his normal. (How was his childhood). He would decide how something was/should be, then behave in a way to make it happen ie pick a really random fight that you couldn't win so he could prove him self right and be 'the winner'. Self prophesising and other labels available.

Fucking exhausting and took me years to work it out and learn to deal with it and gave up in the end. Please let me save you some years and lots of heartache x

Run....

Wow, what his text means is that you need to apologise to him or he won’t move on. You did nothing wrong!

Relationships aren’t about one person winning because you aren’t opponents and if he can’t understand then he needs to go.

Get your stuff and don’t look back, you sound lovely.

You’re all so supportive, I can’t begin to explain how much it means to me.

I’d put my phone on aeroplane mode today whilst I got my head down and cracked on with some house bits that need doing. I didn’t want to think about him or speak to him.

I was driving back from the shop and he called, foolishly I answered.
He started by telling me that I just don’t understand and going over everything from the past few days.
I was clearly upset and said I don’t want to talk about it.
He then said “let’s forget it and move on”. I told him I’d go over tomorrow (didn’t mention getting my stuff) then he kicked off and suddenly started going crazy again saying I’ve held him to every single thing he’s done, I say he shouts but he doesn’t (he said this whilst shouting) and that I just say really horrible things about him.
He finished the call by saying “you won’t have to hear me shout any more once I put the phone down and we’re over”.

That’s that then.

But now I’m sitting in the car, pulled over in a little lay-by crying my eyes out at what the fuck just happened.

I know that it being over is the right thing but I didn’t expect that blow up and attack and I’m heartbroken over all the good things and the man I thought he was.

Wow - so the rubbish has taken itself out.
Of course you are hurt and confused OP.
He's mad as a bucket of frogs - honestly!
He's unhinged.
Have a good cry tonight.
Get over there tomorrow and get your stuff.
Then please block, ignore and delete.
You will never ever be 'heard' by this guy.
He's going to be a lonely old man.

He's done this to blindside you so you'll apologise and beg him back, and always be very careful never to disagree with him again.

He sounds unhinged tbh. Please enlist the help of friends to get your stuff back.

Wow he’s done that so he can come back to you and say, I forgive you melandri
You just made me so unhappy and you picked at me, but I can get past it. So I will let you back.

Trust me, this will happen. And if for some miracle it doesn’t then you have escaped a narcissist

You are his emotional punch bag.
Have a cry, let it out, call a friend to talk to through.
Then get your stuff and block him before he gets a chance to reel you back in. Cos that will be his next move. He will be expecting you to apologise once he's done with his punishment.
Ignore. Don't engage.