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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He needs to “win”. Is this gaslighting or just being a d*ck?

365 replies

Melandri · 17/06/2020 21:35

Has anyone dealt with a really argumentative partner who doesn’t see themselves that way?

My partner picks at anything until he finds a disagreement or a reason to fall out.

Recently he told me he doesn’t like the way I need to go for a walk when I’m frustrated or upset, especially if it’s fairly late, and would I mind not doing it because he worries.

I said fair enough but I do like a bit of space to clear my head but I won’t go out at night if he’ll worry (it doesn’t happen often btw, maybe twice in the last few months.)

I thought that was the end of the conversation but no.

He then said “if you did still want to go for a walk, would you tell me?” To which I replied “of course, I’m always honest with you and there’d be no reason not to tell you”

He then said:
“Are you calling me a bullshitter?”

I was so surprised at the direction that this took but said “no, of course not”.

He’s now saying that because I said I’m honest, I’ve indirectly said that he’s not.
It’s been over 24 hours now and he’s still really worked up over it even though I’ve told him I dong feel that way and don’t think that and definitely didn’t imply it or didn’t mean to.

Anyway, after lots of shouting and arguing from him, and me staying calm and telling him that I don’t think he’s a bullshitter he’s summed it up saying that the issue is that I don’t understand.

I said “I do” and he replied saying “no you don’t”.

I’ve asked him what I can do to help us move on and he said his lost where he is with everything but he won’t back down because that will mean I’ve won. I don’t see it as winning or losing I just think there’s been a bit of confusion and rather than letting it go he’s clinging to it.

I don’t know why he’s like this. Can anyone help?

[Note from MNHQ - 22/11/2020: please note there is a recent update from the OP].

OP posts:
ThatLockdownLyfe · 18/06/2020 16:21

He's testing you to see if he can make you beg his forgiveness. Ramping up the cycle of abuse.

I'm so glad you've posted here. Now you have the support you need to dump and block this damaged individual.

Keep posting, we are here for you.

Flyingagainstreason · 18/06/2020 16:22

Oh and unless your stuff is actual bags of cash and gold.
Just block and delete and let it ALL go into landfill via his bins.
He needs to you have to contact him to get the stuff so you get drawn in again.
I mean it’s fucking textbook.

Google covert narcissism, even if it isn’t him, anyone who has any vague traits of it. Run like the wind. Trust US

InfiniteGerbils · 18/06/2020 16:23

Basically what @hellsbellsmelons said with (hells) on.

Joking aside, I am sorry that this turd of a man has shit stained your day, cry and be sad and angry because it’s normal to feel like that when you find someone you love and trust to be deserving of neither x

Skyla2005 · 18/06/2020 16:27

Sounds very hard work. Life is too short for that shit

WinnieWonder · 18/06/2020 16:31

He has done you such a favour!
Take the water torturer at his word.
When he realises that you arent on the backfoot pleading with him to take you back, the hoovering will start!

Melandri · 18/06/2020 16:31

Thank the heavens for Mumsnet. I was completely despairing, having a full on ugly cry and you’ve all brought me round.

Part of me wanted to call back, to work stuff out and try and make it right but I know that’s the absolute wrong thing to do.

I’ve stopped crying now, I’ll start the car and head home, allow myself a few more tears later if I need to but then I’ll put on my big girl pants and stay strong.

OP posts:
Melandri · 18/06/2020 16:35

Quick google of hoovering technique....

Thanks @WinnieWonder - I’ll definitely stay alert for that. What a shitty tactic.

OP posts:
WinnieWonder · 18/06/2020 16:35

No! Let him slowly figure out how his manipulations have backfired.
Might do him good.

Life with a man who makes you responsible for his low self esteem, doubts, insecurities and depression is torture
I promise you

I was less wise, no mumsnet, i thought 'if i coild just find a way to make him SEE'. he never 'saw'.
You can only be sane and reasonable for yrslf

Bunnymumy · 18/06/2020 16:36

I think he cottoned on that you were thinking of leaving so he thought he would break up first.

He really sounds unhinged. I wonder what red flags you missed up until this point because the dude is cray cray for coco puffs.

He is trying to get you to feel in the wrong and beg for him back or some shit. Training you to just agree you are the one with 'issues' in future if you dont agree with his narratives unequivocally.

He might actually have done you a favour as if he thinks he is in control because he ended it, it might give you a window of time to escape him and block him on everything before he cottons on you arent dancing to his tune anymore.

WinnieWonder · 18/06/2020 16:36

Oh yes! I predict hoovering. He will say that he was right to think you were cold hearted, you did not even try to change his mind!

Flyingagainstreason · 18/06/2020 16:42

Any single time you feel like you’re going to cave. Come here first

Bunnymumy · 18/06/2020 16:43

Haha yeh 'how could you be so cold wahhhh wahhhh poor me boohoo you didnt even fight for us by admitting you were totally at fault and begging forgiveness wahhhh sob sniffle'.

But if you block him on everything then that's half the battle. Only problem is he may use mutual friends to get to you. ...or post a long rambelling letter through your door.

Hopefully you'll manage to avoid the fake suicide/self harm threats. But some of them like to pull that shit too so heads up.

Flyingagainstreason · 18/06/2020 16:43

Yeah watch out for the flying monkeys.

Bunnymumy · 18/06/2020 16:51

Oh and the 'you say horrible things about me' I bet is projection. Basically, he has probably been telling people horrible things about you.

MzHz · 18/06/2020 16:56

As for what I get out of it... He’s incredibly kind and loving and is very open with saying I can treat his home as my own. He’s very good in bed and is really attentive but then things like this happen and I just don’t know where to go with it all.

You have been with him 8 months.

For information - on average it takes 18m - 2 years for an abuser to show themselves for what they are, but there will be teeny tiny hints beforehand.

As someone who got involved with a man who started out amazing and then eventually ended up wearing me down to nothing, I can tell you that this kind of teeny tiny thing is exactly similar to what you're experiencing now.

Having read what he's now just done, He is showing you who he is loud and clear now, do not ignore this, do not go back to him, make sure you get your stuff, and get someone else to pick it up if you don't feel up to it.

I can't tell you the number of times I can now pinpoint that I should have kicked my ex to the kerb and didn't. Don't be the idiot I was. Walk away with your head held high, you have done nothing wrong and he isn't a good man.

He was only pretending to be very kind, that's an act to draw you in, now he can't keep up the pretence and the mask is slipping.

So your walks are the best thing for you - as far away as poss, and in the opposite direction to him.

Dry your eyes girl, (((hug))) might not look like it from where you're sitting, but honestly today's a good day!

EllaEllaE · 18/06/2020 17:11

What a dick he is.

The conversation has kind of moved on, but initially you wanted to know if these kind of hyper-argumentative men ever change. I have several brothers who are all like this. As they have got older, one has got much worse, to the point he has lost most of his friends and has a terrible marriage, one stayed about the same, and the third realized everyone hated his argumentativeness and tried to change. The one who tried to change is... better. He really tries. And if you tell him directly in the moment, "Hey [brother], you're being really annoyingly argumentative right now and this isn't fun," he will stop and apologise. After many years of really trying, he's at least self-aware.

They all went to the same kind of all-male private school, which the self-reflexive one blames for them having this "I must win the argument even if it kills me" mentality.

But yeah. All the other stuff your (ex) guy is doing? What a dick.

FizzyGreenWater · 18/06/2020 17:14

Oh he won't stay gone!!

This is just a technique, another example of the 'there's the door then'. It really doesn't matter - this is him and he is an aggressive loser.

Stick to the plan, go over tomorrow with someone and collect your things. Don't let him get you on your own.

He doesn't want to finish it - he wants to carry on having a girlfriend he can use as a punchbag, that's all.

Bunnymumy · 18/06/2020 17:32

Notice how keen he is for you to be distressed. And for you not to have headspace.

He didnt like you taking walks to clear your stress. He argued over something that doesnt make sense last night and he then continued the arguement first thing! When you didn't respond because you needed head space, he phoned you up and intensified the...well, the abuse, quite frankly. Because he doesnt want you to be able to think straight. Its sorta like water torture. Bombarding you constantly with mindfuckery.
He is trying to frazzle your brain.

He may be satisfied that you will be a blubbering mess rn. Chances are he intends to give you the silent treatment for a few days. During which he will expect you to be going nuts questioning yourself or trying to contact him to work things out.

He doesnt want to work things out. He wants you to feel messed up.

He doesnt know you have been figuring things out though xD

I agree with pp in that if your stuff can be abandoned, it might be worthwhile just to leave it. Otherwise the sooner you can get it (with company) the better. Be prepared for him to try make out you are crazy to whomever you take along of course. But better than going alone and having him play his mind games on you. Or worse.

WhereYouLeftIt · 18/06/2020 17:40

Be ready for him calling you, expecting you to beg him to come back. He will make that call. He wants you destabilised, not knowing what to expect from him. It makes you easier to control.

Thank fuck you don't live with him.

The stuff you took over to his - how attached to it are you? Could you just sacrifice it in favour of having no contact with him ever again?

LouHotel · 18/06/2020 17:41

He wouldn't even give you until tomorrow for you to breathe.

I seriously doubt this man will make the weekend before he contacts you; theres a brilliant thread of a women whose partner dumped her by text with a 'no need to reply'message so she didn't , it's a great read for understanding how to stay strong.

NoMoreDickheads · 18/06/2020 17:54

I think saying it's over is a tactic and he's expecting you will begg for him to keep seeing you. But I like to think he's wrong.

Don't reply again, and go round tomorrow with a friend so there's less likely to be further arguing or aggro and fetch your things, and ask for any key to yours back if he has one.

Then block him on everything, including phone.

Melandri · 18/06/2020 18:10

@WhereYouLeftIt and @LouHotel plus others who predicted there would be a phone call - you’re right. I ignored it and let it ring out, he’s also sent me a WhatsApp but I haven’t opened it yet.

I’ll go tomorrow when he’s out and gather up my bits. I’ll let you all know how I get on.

The lovely thing about all of this is how wise and supportive you’ve been and how you’ve been able to predict his behaviour. But that’s also the really sad thing, that so many of us have been through situations like this...

OP posts:
Bunnymumy · 18/06/2020 18:16

Jeez looks like he still isnt done trying to frazzle your head.

Thars great if you can grab your stuff while he is out :) good luck!

Bunnymumy · 18/06/2020 18:17

Os: he will be shitting himself now that you are ignoring him and his little plan isnt working xD

TorkTorkBam · 18/06/2020 18:20

An onslaught is brewing.