Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He needs to “win”. Is this gaslighting or just being a d*ck?

365 replies

Melandri · 17/06/2020 21:35

Has anyone dealt with a really argumentative partner who doesn’t see themselves that way?

My partner picks at anything until he finds a disagreement or a reason to fall out.

Recently he told me he doesn’t like the way I need to go for a walk when I’m frustrated or upset, especially if it’s fairly late, and would I mind not doing it because he worries.

I said fair enough but I do like a bit of space to clear my head but I won’t go out at night if he’ll worry (it doesn’t happen often btw, maybe twice in the last few months.)

I thought that was the end of the conversation but no.

He then said “if you did still want to go for a walk, would you tell me?” To which I replied “of course, I’m always honest with you and there’d be no reason not to tell you”

He then said:
“Are you calling me a bullshitter?”

I was so surprised at the direction that this took but said “no, of course not”.

He’s now saying that because I said I’m honest, I’ve indirectly said that he’s not.
It’s been over 24 hours now and he’s still really worked up over it even though I’ve told him I dong feel that way and don’t think that and definitely didn’t imply it or didn’t mean to.

Anyway, after lots of shouting and arguing from him, and me staying calm and telling him that I don’t think he’s a bullshitter he’s summed it up saying that the issue is that I don’t understand.

I said “I do” and he replied saying “no you don’t”.

I’ve asked him what I can do to help us move on and he said his lost where he is with everything but he won’t back down because that will mean I’ve won. I don’t see it as winning or losing I just think there’s been a bit of confusion and rather than letting it go he’s clinging to it.

I don’t know why he’s like this. Can anyone help?

[Note from MNHQ - 22/11/2020: please note there is a recent update from the OP].

OP posts:
Melandri · 17/06/2020 23:45

@FizzyGreenWater - Grin That actually made me laugh and was just what I needed to hear!!

And @Dollyrocket it really is a good thing, he talks a very good game and almost had me falling for it hook, line and sinker.

OP posts:
Melandri · 17/06/2020 23:49

@WaitingForTheTurn79 - that makes sense. I think it was the fact that it felt like we’d experienced 2 completely different conversations that made me wonder. Who’d have thought falling in love would be such a minefield?!

OP posts:
NoMoreDickheads · 17/06/2020 23:50

Take a look at the The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond by Patricia Evans

@1235kbm I've been watching some Patricia Evans clips/interviews on Youtube today and it totally was like this.

@Melandri The thing is he is threatened by you being a real human, rather than just a projection of everything he wants at all times.

There are a couple of snippets on this channel and an interview here That I watched today.

I only started learning about this stuff recently (I'm 43,) wish I had when I was younger.

Would you say you are a 'people pleaser?'

What do you like to do? Do it, and if people try and stop you tell them to bugger off, especially men who couch it in the language of 'worrying about you.'

Please tell me that at 32 I won’t end up alone?!

I'm sure you won't, but being alone isn't so bad you know? Knowing that means you can drop dodgy ones like a hot brick.

AnnaNimmity · 17/06/2020 23:55

I don't know if he's abusive OP, but he does sound like a knob.

I agree, it shouldn't be like this after 8 months. It should be lovely. He should be making you feel happy. And him twisting your words around until you feel slightly insane is just horrible.

And you're 32! You'll be fine. It would be worse to tie yourself to this man and have kids with him and find yourself stuck with him. Find someone lovely!

Closetbeanmuncher · 17/06/2020 23:57

together for about 8 months

Eight months in is honeymoon period when people are on best behaviour...If this is best behaviour imagine what 8 years in would look like!!

End it ASAP before you're tied in any way.

willsa · 18/06/2020 00:43

DO NOT move in with him!! That is when the control/abuse will escalate.
He sounds a carbon copy of my Ex so I'm talking from experience.
He was always very keen for me to move in. The more permanently, more entangled the better. He put me on the council tax before I even made the move. Put my child in a private school nearby. Was trying to convince me I would never need to work. Or HE will find me a better job if I weirdly want to work. And then he used all of that to pull the strings. Minor disagreement (just me having a say or opinion) and he was packing my bags. Minor disagreement and he would ask me to find a new school for my child as of the next day. But the night before would have been repeatedly reminding me that "it's not my home, it's ours" and we should get married.

One of the first signs of trouble was not liking my walks. Particularly the head clearing ones. He would never outright ban them, just sort of sulk if I did. Or "worried". Or found a reason to join.
He became very argumentative once the mask slipped. To the point of rather claiming ridiculous than not having the last word. I still remember him announcing in annoyed anger that women rape and assault men at least as much as men do women, just women are better at not getting caught. That was in response to me recounting types of harassment and abuse I've suffered from men just going about my daily life and how it must be safer to be a man and not worry opening the door in a bathrobe (I was sexually assaulted by a meter reading guy).

Any chance your partner is ever so slightly a sex pest? My ex would not necessarily take a no for a no and would think that he can convince me otherwise if he jokes about it, playfully pressures me, promises an orgasm or two, tells me the other things can wait. Basically I don't think he viewed other things in my life as important as him in my life.
He was also caring, funny, generous, good in bed, loyal and more. But abuse is abuse and no amount of it is OK.

Anyway, sorry this could get long. But it just struck a chord.

Ilovetheseventies · 18/06/2020 00:53

If his mum has mental health issues he maybe used to this pattern of conflict. Things alright for a few weeks then a flare up?
It maybe learnt behaviour. Best to talk about it when things are settled and say his behaviour is not normal or acceptable. How would he like it if the tables were turned. He needs counselling.
Comments like does the apple fall far from the tree isn't particularly nice, I know you didn't say that to him.

ButteryPuffin · 18/06/2020 01:11

You do not have to panic and settle for this guy at 32. Don't move in. Tell him you don't like all the conflict so for both your sales it's best to call it a day.

NoMoreDickheads · 18/06/2020 01:35

Any chance your partner is ever so slightly a sex pest? My ex would not necessarily take a no for a no

@willsa I agree that sexual coercion (abuse) is far more common than people recognize and it's good that more women are beginning to talk about it.

And if a man can't see a woman as a separate individual, or doesn't want her to be one, then of course he may well react badly (or not 'hear') if her sexual wishes are different to his in any way.

Melandri · 18/06/2020 01:56

@willsa - is this the same man?!

Seriously though, so much of the behaviour you’re describing is just like him.
He always says to me things like “this isn’t my house, it’s ours. This isn’t my bed, it’s ours” but then at the slightest disagreement or wrong word he says that “we might as well rip the plaster off, you know where the door is.”

As for being a sex pest, he does have a very high sex drive but I’ve never felt forced. He does sometimes get carried away and bites me really hard when we’re not having sex or starts playing around and is a bit grabby, trying to touch me under my dress when we’re just watching tv and even if... Oh god the penny is dropping. Even if I try pushing him off or saying no, because he’ll be tickling me and it naturally makes me laugh, he continues...

I don’t know how I didn’t see that.

I can’t sleep, this is all a bit much but I’m glad I’m realising it now. To think I’ve already taken some of my stuff over there ready to stay for a while and potentially move in. I’m going to have to get it back...

OP posts:
InfiniteGerbils · 18/06/2020 05:25

Fucking hell @Melandri get rid.

BITING????? No - that’s physical assault.

So he’s assaulting you at 8 months in and you don’t live together, please cut this relationship off now and give honest reasons but I’d suggest you tell someone where you and and what you’re doing and make sure you have a clear “escape” route.

The get ready for the pity dance plus possible suicide threats. He fits the template, and it’s all bolocks.

LorenzoVonMatterhorn · 18/06/2020 06:45

but then at the slightest disagreement or wrong word he says that “we might as well rip the plaster off, you know where the door is.” This is him on the road to being very controlling.

Get your stuff back as soon as you can. Then leave him. How awful for you.

PicsInRed · 18/06/2020 07:14

He is Lundy Bancroft's "water torturor" abuse type, from his book "Why Does He Do That?".

It can be found online in pdf.

Do not ever have children with him - you cannot ever resolve anything and no longer even have the choice to completely walk away as you have children.

Its coercive control really - he controls you by forcing you to remain in an endless argument, defending yourself against accusations without tangible proof (e.g. "you think I'm a bullshitter").

He'll drive you clinically insane. And he will enjoy doing it.

TorkTorkBam · 18/06/2020 07:15

@LadyFeliciaMontague

things like this happen and I just don’t know where to go with it all

Out the door as fast as you can without a backwards glance.

This
PicsInRed · 18/06/2020 07:19

I wish I could show him this to try make him understand...

But he does understand, because he does it deliberately in order to unnerve you, to leave you always on shifting sands. He wants you always thinking about him, worrying about him, totally focused on him and placating him.

These men even make the children think "mummy's crazy". They alienate women from their friends and the woman's own family.

In time your life will be miserable and devoid of anything. Except him.

Bananalanacake · 18/06/2020 07:26

You don't live together so you can go for a walk when you want. Don't tell him. How does he know. I think 8 months is too soon to move in.

Justtryingtobehelpful · 18/06/2020 07:38

You're so lucky you checked here before this went any further. Get rid of him!

These books will explain the tactics he's using against you and why....

Lundy Bancroft's book 'Why Does He Do That? docdro.id/py03

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling-ebook/dp/B000Q9J0RO?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

How He Gets into Her Head: The Mind of the Male Intimate Abuser www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1855942208/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_gxxAEbBTMRXTM?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

TorkTorkBam · 18/06/2020 07:42

I wish I could show him this to try make him understand...

This shows that you are a people pleaser and have trouble understanding those who are not.

The person in question has the direct immediate feedback of being present while you are being openly angry/sad/upset. They have heard you explain in words what you don't like about the behaviour. Repeatedly most likely.

Given that, your problem isn't a failure of them understanding how other people feel and what other people consider reasonable behaviour.

Your problem is that their decisions about their behaviour are about them and their values only. Not about how other people feel or what other people say is normal, nice or acceptable.

This tendency can be a good character trait. For example if I were a people pleaser, I'd be deep in the church of my parents, would certainly not have upset so many by going around being a female good at science, being bolshy about wifework in the workplace, etc.

It can also be unbearable if their "values" are like "I must always win."

When you realise how a non-people-pleaser's mind works you will be liberated from all kinds of dead horse flogging.

Binks15 · 18/06/2020 07:43

Not at all - and it’s great that many women are aware of the kinds of domestic issues which can build if left...that being said if you feel he’s generally a great person it may be worth trying to talk these things through with him, perhaps writing a letter or something, Mentally set yourself a set of responses to that letter which you would feel we’re reasonable and looking to improve and if he is unable to be reasonable then you know it’s not quite right.

evilfingerscantcatchme · 18/06/2020 07:47

I'd be very wary.. DH was like this... now in an argument I get "apologise or I won't speak to you until you do". Even when I don't feel I was in the wrong and all it SHOULD take is an adult discussion. No I have to apologise first for him to acknowledge me. It's awful. I have to ignore him until he stops. Not a way to live and now reassessing what the heck I'm going to do (got two young DC). I'd back away while you can.. if it's a behaviour he can't control it will happen again and again... tread carefully and make sure you don't box yourself in. Always have an exit route...

WinnieWonder · 18/06/2020 07:48

Re reading this thread, it strikes me that he reminds me of Amber Heard. (Jonnie Depp's xw).
Listening to the tapes of them fighting will let you know what you're in for OP

AH also berated JD for walking away from her when she was torturing him. She wanted him to respect her right to abuse him. Not walk away!! It made her furious that he would try and remove himself from a volatile row.

sallievp · 18/06/2020 07:52

Don't you deserve better?

BurtsBeesKnees · 18/06/2020 08:05

If he's like this 8 months in, the honeymoon period, imagine what he'll be like when he's several years in. You asked if he could change, yes I'm sure he will change, i suspect he'll get worse.

Starlightstarbright1 · 18/06/2020 08:19

At 8 months in you are still seeing the best.

Can you not go for a walk it worries me = you cannot walk away from me .. you are a woman in your 30’s if you want to leave the house you can.

The biggest thing you are not going to change who he is..he us trying to change who you are.