Help please! Parents in law are going to ruin my relationship

[Jesssr]

I really need some advice,. Here's a quick back story, sorry it's pretty long.

My partner is an only child to parent's in their late 40s, we are both 30. His parents live 10 minutes from us whilst my whole family life in a different country and my parents are in their 60s.

We had our DS just over a year ago. Before she was born my partner and I discussed our expectations for how involved grandparents would be, child care arrangements etc.
These were particularly important discussions as his mother decided to take a part time job with the expectation that she would have child care duties. When she mentioned this we advised her not to that we didn't want her to look after DS that we felt nursery would be the best solution for our family. She did it anyway and put considerable pressure on my partner to change our arrangements.

Since the day our DS was born she has been intrusive, selfish and immature. I had quite severe post natal anxiety, and my OH is self employed and was unable to take any time off. She called round unannounced everyday for the first two weeks, despite me asking her not to and explaining that I was trying to establish breastfeeding and needed to rest. For the record, she was not there to help she just wanted to hold the baby. Not once did she even so much as offer to make me a cup of tea but made it very clear that I was being rude not offering her one. In the second week she turned up and I refused to let her into the House.

This is where the issues started. She had expectations of having DS overnight in her first week of life. My OH explained to her that this wasn't possible because I was breastfeeding and asked her to back off and give me space. She had also been asked to not post pictures of DS on social media and a few other boundaries were established. She ignored everything.
My OH works solely with his father,and everyday he was getting told how upset his mother was etc. At first because he could also see how upset I was he stood his ground with our request for boundaries, but eventually as time went on he got worn down and started to give in to his mother for an easier life.
The ongoing issues his mother was causing (and he recognised she was the cause) almost forced is to break up on several occasions and I spent much of DS's first year at home in another country with my family.

How are you finding the relationship during lockdown? She surely hasn't been round for 2 months or so since it started.

I'm guessing your MIL has never had any boundaries, your OH and FIL give her whst she wants to an easy life and it's so set now that anything different is seen as unreasonable.
I wonder what relationship MIL had with her MIL when your OH was a child, was she allowed to rule the roost or was there MIL or her DM taking over her life ??
It's awfully cruel to say this but this is your and OH time to enjoy and be parents and have your life. Grandparents are a wonderful addition but not if they set to live their life through yours / your child's. I made a comment many years ago to my exMIL something similar. She had moved away when she had her children but expected me to be available at her will ... you have my sympathies. Hold firm and keep calmly explaining to your OH you expect your privacy and boundaries to be respected or there will be longer term consequences

@Jesssr
Unfortunately it doesn't sound like he has your back in the way you would like him too. I'm sorry to say that but if you have told him how you feel and that you don't want his mother around all the time and he doesn't do something about that then he doesnt have your back. Relationships have to be a 2 way street to work. Whilst I'm not saying breakup with him, you have to habe a serious chat with yourself about what it is you want and expect from him and whether you feel you are getting that because it doesn't sound like you are getting it all.

You are also not being unreasonable if you don't want his mother around so much. There is nothing wrong with saying once a week or every 2 weeks. Its about boundaries and setting them so you and your OH are on the same page. If you voice your issues and he doesnt acknowledge and act on them the. As I said before, if doesnt sound like he has your back.

Finally, and with all due respect, this is said assuming you have been completely reasonable with what you are asking. I don't see anything unreasonable in what you are asking but we are only able to gauge that from your side of things and based on that alone, you are not being unreasonable.

So I suppose I should ask am I being unreasonable? - No, No, No.

Is it unreasonable to not want his parents to be as involved as they want/expect?
No, No, No. It is your precious little family life to live as YOU want 100% - not what they want.

Is it unreasonable to ask that we don't see them every week?
No, no, no. YOU do what suits YOU. Before you had your baby you both decided once a month. Go back to that.

Is it unreasonable to ask him not to leave me alone with his mother when she comes round because he doesn't want to spend time with her and also because the relationship between us is nonexistent?
No, no, no. This tells me that you have a chance of your OH eventually seeing it. He doesn’t like her, he is just scared of her. He is using you here to do his dirty work of entertaining and placating her. Don’t let him dump on you.

Is it unreasonable to turn down his requests for his mother to have our child alone when her past actions are the very reason I don't trust her? (He has on many occasions acknowledged that his mother has overstepped her mark)

No, no, no of course not.

These are all examples of your reasonable normal boundaries - the only thing “unreasonable” is her trampling them and your OH and FIL facilitating this by throwing YOU under the bus so they keep her placated.

BUT - they have manipulated, gas-lit and disrespected your wishes so much for so long that you don’t know which way is up.

She sounds stifling and it must be so stressful and upsetting to have your wishes ignored in your own home. Unfortunately I can't see this improving for you because the MiL sees nothing wrong with her behaviour. She will continue to manipulate to get her own way and unless your OH steps up you will always have to deal with this.

If you did split up I'd also be concerned about the influence she'd have on your ds without you being around to moderate.

This is really tough for you. All I can suggest is speaking to your OH again, maybe show him this post and the responses so he can see that his mother's behaviour is unfair and controlling.

Yes it would suit your MIL for you to split - she would push him to seek splitting access 50:50 - and he would then leave your DC with her alone whilst he worked. Shocking.

I honestly don't know if her agenda is to make us separate. I think she is too immature to see the damage she has/is causing. I'm not even sure she realises that if we separated that she would have very limited access with DS. And really that access would be up to OH. if I moved country would he really want to give up his precious time with his DS just so pils could have their time? I honestly don't know.

Thank you for the reading recommendations. I will certainly have a look.

@ConstanceSalinger yep still visiting during lockdown.

@Time4change2018 now I can only speak from what I see and make assumptions so i might be totally wrong but I think mil would of had a very good relationship with her mil when OH was young. She certainly does now. Mil was only 17 when she had OH. he was a bit of a surprise. Her own parents were heavily involved in caring for my OH when he was growing up, fils parents very much seemed to be there to support but didn't intrude unless asked. That's the kind of GPS I would like on our situation. People who we know we can rely on if we need help and support but don't expect visitation rights, sleep overs, child care etc. I don't need or want someone else parenting our child. To me it is the clearest way of telling someone that you think they are doing a shitty job of raising a child.

What did her friends tell you in Jan?

Sounds like MIL wants to parent your DC in the way she should have parented her son...

I'm not even sure she realises that if we separated that she would have very limited access with DS

She wouldn’t have limited access. You work, DH works from home and she could look after DS in your home while he is at home. What in her mind do you think would be the barrier to your DH being resident parent and her being full-time Mummy, and horrible Jessr visiting EOW?

I’m not even remotely saying she would ever get that, but she sounds mental enough to think she might. And I think there is every chance she and your DH would get 50/50.

She had expectations of having DS overnight in her first week of life

This isn’t being over-excited or lacking boundaries, it is batshit.

@Gutterton I don't think it's fair to air dirty laundry, but something happened between mil and fil a number of years ago. It was a very hard time for OH. Neither of us knew the details as we lived almost 300 miles away at the time. But mil manipulated the situation to make everyone, including fil believe it was his fault when it wasn't. My OH still has no idea what happened. It eats me up inside knowing the truth but there's no way I could or would ever tell him. It's not my business and it would destroy him. Although saying bthst I'm pretty sure it would be the quickest way to get him to see the reality of everything
Im joking of Course.

@christmascarcass
My OH doesn't work from home, he actually works all over the county. He just operates the business from home. Occasionally depending on his job load/type he will have to come home during the day to prepare for another job but it's not very often, once a week maybe. I on the other do work from home on a regular basis and most likely on a permanent basis from now due to COVID. As unproductive as it is having a hyperactive toddler running round all day it's not forever. DS will be going back to nursery in a matter of weeks. Having mil drop round whilst I'm working from home is even more disruptive to my work.

Haha yes @yinmnblue I made it very clear that this expectation was batshit. As a result she then she my OH home one day with the 25 newborn sleep suits and 25 vests, socks, hats, and a few other bits and bobs saying we could have them as it was obvious she wouldn't need them. DS had long grown out of them. Funny though she never kept any nappies or wipes at their house. For someone that was desperate to have a baby stay over she must have forgotten they shit a lot!

You have been given (mainly) excellent advice. Some posters, e.g. Gutterton are spot on.
It's always easier, if you are a fair minded, decent human being, to want to believe a difficult issue is our fault. Because if it is then it's within our control to put it right.
However if the issue is due to the behaviour of others - well we cannot control their behaviour. This knowledge results in us having to make some very difficult, emotional and painful decisions and changes.
If your husband doesn't have the courage to work with you to totally realign the toxic dynamics of his family, you are left with two choices - give up the fight and allow the waves to drown you. Or get out of the sea.

OMG - she sounds more and more batshit at every post. Firstly stocking up on her own 25 newborn sleep suits, 25 vests 25 hats and 25 socks ..... hoarding them at her house and then literally throwing them all at you in a tantrum!

This is so unhinged - she just wants a doll / plaything - and yes no nappies - she is like a bratty 6 year old - and just as irresponsible. She sounds like she could be incompetent and incapable of childcare. Did her parents take over when she was a teenage mum?

Highly irregular behaviour for a functioning adult. Yes I see why you have repeatedly referred to her behaviours as immature - she is emotionally stunted. I would nickname her Verruca Salt.

Another way of grounding yourself in this toxic sea is to look above and beyond these 3 - how do you observe other family, friends, neighbours and colleagues interacting with MIL - sometimes more can be read in the unsaid - the side glances etc the sense that others are keeping their distance or are vigilant to her behaviours.

This will tell you it’s her - not you.

With the issue about her manipulation of FIL - do you know this is 100% accurate? Or could it be gossip and speculation? What would be the consequences if your OH knew? Is it materially relevant to OH life? If so then it’s a big burden of secrets and lies for you to personally shoulder - and how would he feel if he knew you knew all along?

Did she try for more babies after your DP was born?

You have said your DP is counselling resistant. It is a shame because he might get some perspective on his DM’s behaviour, and be able to talk to her and FIL about it.

Tbh it sounds as if the whole situation had reached a crunch point. Have you anything to lose by holding a family meeting and staying openly and directly how the situation makes you feel and asking how it can be re-set so that everyone feels they can fulfil and enjoy their role without stress, tension and competition for your child? Start by saying you enjoy the visits every few weeks, but the early expectations have made you feel crowded in. And everyone listen to how the situation makes them feel.

It just seems that there Is nothing to lose at this point. Your relationship is already damaged, etc.

@gutterton hahaha Verruca salt. Actually loling.

Not 25 hats or socks, just a few but still 25 baby grows - we didn't even buy that many.

On the incident that happened between fil and mil. I had to run them over it a few times. From what I had picked up from my OH and the couple of blow up arguments I happened to witness it definitely seemed like fil was at fault but I was assured it was mil. And after I took that on board and looked at the events that unfolded with a little more detail it actually made perfect sense that it was mil at fault. I agree with your comment on speculation though, and it's another reason I would never tell OH. I don't have all the facts and I think I would pretend I didn't know if the truth ever came out.

Interactions with other people is something my own mother told me to look for. She doesn't have a lot of friends and nearly all of the friend's she does have are considerably older. I was also hoodwinked into thinking that her sister was a total bitch, she's not. She's actually pretty nice, she just doesn't out up with mils shit. Other siblings also seem to keep their distance a bit. She's far closer with fils siblings than her own, or at least makes out to be but I'm not sure how much they really see each other. But I suppose there is nothing unusual about not being close with siblings.

@YinMnBlue
You are right, there's not much to loose at this point and talking it out like that probably would be a huge help. But it's definitely not something I'm up for doing. That's a 3 against 1 argument. It wouldn't even be a conversation. I would absolutely be ganged up on.

Your Mum sounds totally switched on - glad you have someone to confide in in RL.

What you are trying to do is rationalise something that is irrational - make sense of something senseless because you were brought up with normal rational sensible people - who treated others personal boundaries with kindness and respect.

You just need to know that that isn’t happening here and if you get drawn in too close you will go insane trying to reason with the unreasonable.

They don’t get it.

Don’t waste your words. Use actions. Keep calm, adult and dignified in the face of the histrionic, toddler.

Your boundaries need to be higher and stronger that normal with them. She is unhinged, unsuitable to care for your child and disrespectful to your motherhood, marriage and baby.

Reverse right back and watch it from a distance glancing sideways at others in her company - make your own allies with her siblings - laugh at her antics - you have all the power.

Makes sense Jessr, that would only work if it was a facilitated conversation.

I think you need to modify your stance with DP and stop making the issues about MIL and you need to never mention her in arguments.

So it goes like this

DP MIL wants to come Tuesday For the day
You sorry I’m planning on doing X Y And Z so I won’t be around for her visit.

Do NOT say I don’t want MIL here

Change the tone around to you and what you want and need.

If he says MIL has offered to baby sit Saturday

You say ‘OH that’s a shame.... I’ve already arranged X to come over’

Stop giving your DP ammunition ... give him clear instructions on what you want.

‘Sorry DP I need space to concentrate on work this week, you know I can’t work when people are here’

Stop making it about her.

I should add, this will stop him feeling like he’s in the middle and having to lie to his mother, and cover up and prevent hurt feelings.

He can just repeat what you said. No lies.

Just a word of caution op. If you split, moving countries with your child won’t just be as easy or simple as you deciding you’re going to do that, if your partner isn’t happy for you to do so.

Tell him the mil stops it or your going to your family as soon as is possible. (I can't recall which PP said this).

Actually, I'm not sure I'd give him this ultimatum as the signs are, given the way he's sided far more with his parents (his mother particularly) he'd not give you the permission to leave the country with your child. I'm unsure whether the fact that you are not married will affect this - hopefully someone else will know.

@Jesssr
He is the man I have committed my life to, started a family with, I would have his back too as long as he was being reasonable.
You may be committed to him but he's showing little sign that he feels the same in return. You are supposed to be equals in a team - the TWO of you with your child. You can understand why he might be like this but the results are the same. He is siding with his parents - against his life partner and mother of his child. You've even had to take marriage of the table indefinitely- what does that tell you?