Help please! Parents in law are going to ruin my relationship

[Jesssr]

I really need some advice,. Here's a quick back story, sorry it's pretty long.

My partner is an only child to parent's in their late 40s, we are both 30. His parents live 10 minutes from us whilst my whole family life in a different country and my parents are in their 60s.

We had our DS just over a year ago. Before she was born my partner and I discussed our expectations for how involved grandparents would be, child care arrangements etc.
These were particularly important discussions as his mother decided to take a part time job with the expectation that she would have child care duties. When she mentioned this we advised her not to that we didn't want her to look after DS that we felt nursery would be the best solution for our family. She did it anyway and put considerable pressure on my partner to change our arrangements.

Since the day our DS was born she has been intrusive, selfish and immature. I had quite severe post natal anxiety, and my OH is self employed and was unable to take any time off. She called round unannounced everyday for the first two weeks, despite me asking her not to and explaining that I was trying to establish breastfeeding and needed to rest. For the record, she was not there to help she just wanted to hold the baby. Not once did she even so much as offer to make me a cup of tea but made it very clear that I was being rude not offering her one. In the second week she turned up and I refused to let her into the House.

This is where the issues started. She had expectations of having DS overnight in her first week of life. My OH explained to her that this wasn't possible because I was breastfeeding and asked her to back off and give me space. She had also been asked to not post pictures of DS on social media and a few other boundaries were established. She ignored everything.
My OH works solely with his father,and everyday he was getting told how upset his mother was etc. At first because he could also see how upset I was he stood his ground with our request for boundaries, but eventually as time went on he got worn down and started to give in to his mother for an easier life.
The ongoing issues his mother was causing (and he recognised she was the cause) almost forced is to break up on several occasions and I spent much of DS's first year at home in another country with my family.

Seriously grow up. Leave her with the baby downstairs and go and have an hours sleep. Take all the help u can get. You sound upset your family are abroad and his arent and also that his family are younger and yours arent. My inlaws have always had my kids I saw regularly and when went bk to work at 6 months they had her all time and my mum.mondays. nursery from 3 years old. Babies need lots of love from family. My inlaws gets both my kids from schools every day and take to sea side.

If your DH was happy with you spending most of your DC’s first year abroad, I’d be tempted to arrange another long trip abroad, and then just not come back.

Breaking up and staying in the UK would be a nightmare - his DM would be pushing him to get as much residency as possible, on the grounds that she could do all the childcare. Awful.

I wouldn’t suggest a moonlit flit, but if he is happy for you to go then I would put as much ocean between my DC and MIL as possible.

I’m conflicted here. Your MIL sounds like she lacked boundaries initially that much is clear. But are you sure she just weren’t too excitable and your were too protective as it was your first baby And now it’s escalated to this? It’s obvious to her that she will never have the close relationship she may have imagined with her only grandchild given your DP is her only son.

But then some of the things you say about allowing your DP visitation with his own mother once a month so you can be a family of 3 it’s bizarre and I would laugh my DP out the door if he suggested that to me. I don’t necessarily want to see my family or his more than a few times a month but to put that strict a number on it is ridiculous. Plus I don’t want my baby to not know his own family on both sides!

Seriously if you trust him as a father surely he can just take the baby to see his mum and allow you to get a bath, go the gym or whatever you want if you don’t want to be in their company- or does that make you uncomfortable? Your allowed to go abroad for 6 months but your MiL can’t push your DD around the park? The first few weeks i understand but your child is surely around 1 now? Was your mum allowed access without you there? Did you never take a shower or go for a walk without your child or is it different rules for your own family?

And to those suggesting you take the baby back abroad and never come home leaving your child without a father I literally don’t even know where to start it’s insane. Is he a good father?

Completely agree with poster above why could your mum watch baby yet mil cant. Jealousy and worrying about your mum missing out etc. I rarely stay at inlaws however we do get on i drop kids of and I go of and do what I need to..

You have my utmost sympathy as I have similar issues. You try to set boundaries and they walk all over you so you feel more powerless. You try to compromise and they push more and you feel bulldozed. You advocate for what you need and you’ve upset her and by extension your DP and FIL and you feel guilty. You feel more and more confused and emotional and don't trust yourself. (Your partner has confidence problems because of this too - it’s the FOG)

You’re being ganged up on in your own home so you have nowhere to go.

Couples counselling really helped - DP listened to a third person (but just felt attacked by me). Grey rock too. Also letting go of needing to be liked or accepted by her.

Normal social rules do not apply to this dynamic. Stand your ground and put your foot all the way down. Get her out of your house. Just say no and walk away from any discussion on it. Let them call you difficult and moody and own it. You’ve given DP every opportunity to make this work for everyone!

You have a DD so you can’t just walk away without trying another tack. But there’s an undeniable ick factor that might not go away.

So you told your DH that though he can see his dad every day, his mum can only visit once a month?

I'm starting to feel that there's more to this. You seem to have shut his mum out.completely for the baby's first six months (after the first two weeks) and now she's only allowed once a month contact?

Everything Chakadakotaregina says above.

Normal rules do not apply when some unhinged woman demands to have your precious newborn overnight in their first week of life.

I am sure that this hostile act alone triggered your PNA - your gut is screaming at you to keep this fruit loop away and everyone is conspiring against you.

There's some good advice here and generally on captain awkward about boundaries

captainawkward.com/2016/02/23/833-when-your-spouse-wont-set-boundaries-with-your-in-laws/

If your dp won't be on your side though and won't prioritise you then it won't work

To be clear mil has always regularly saw ds. I was at home usually for 3 weeks max. She would pick us up from the airport and pils would come visit/we visited them every Saturday and Sunday. I actively tried to avoid her during the week when she was still coming round 2/3 days on top of the weekend visits.
And she has been left downstairs plenty of times whilst I had a shower, did laundry whatever it may have been. Unfortunately there was no winning with that either because she went back crying that I was ignoring her and being rude.
And my parents are treated EXACTLY the same as my OHs. Whilst it's impossible to deny that you do tend to lean towards your own family for help and advice. My parents already raised their children. As much as they love their grandchildren they have made it very clear that they are not there as a day care.
And for anyone that has a situation were their kids are cared for by grandparents, relatives fantastic! If that's what works for you then keep doing it, but it is not a solution that works for my family hence why it was never discussed.
I am not trying to stop my OH from spending time with his parents. He sees his mother most days when he picks up/drops off his father. He can see as much of his parents as he likes. What I'm trying to get him to understand is that it's not fair to expect everyone else to spend the same amount of time with them.
For those suggesting I let her take DS out on a walk... I don't care how much you laugh at me or think I am ridiculous but I have a genuine fear that she wouldn't come back. She use to do this thing when we went out for walks with ds where she would slowly drop back further and further walking at snails pace and then run off down the closest fork in the path.
When lockdown measure's bare eased/lifted I have suggested to my OH that we have a date night and his parents would look after DS. I would prefer to get a babysitter but I'm not going to aggregate the situation more than it already is.
@saraclara not restricted to once a month, I've already said I'm not inflexible on this matter but less frequently. My OH was the one that said once a month was enough.

Your OH has his balls in a jar and the jar belongs to MIL.

They all sound unhinged.

You have an OH problem above all else.

He works with his dad, he gives in to his mum for an easy life.

He is the one who must cut the apron strings.

Unfortunately he might never do that. So you can feel guilt free about giving him the ultimatum and following through.

You must follow through though

About MIL running off with the pram - I believe you. My mother has done similar. Laughed at my distress and denied it all.

You will find the majority of people won't believe you about these incidents because they've been lucky enough never to experience the behaviour of a seriously disordered person.

MIL most likely has a personality disorder. Nothing about her behaviour is normal or healthy.

You will get nowhere treating her like a normal reasonable adult. She has proven that she isn't. She is dangerous in so many ways. Destroying your marriage, your relationship with DC, even your own mental health are all at risk so long as this person is permitted to continue her games. Your only way out is to treat her like the narc she is.

DH most likely is stuck in the FOG and won't see he also needs to change his responses.

You might want to google narcissistic mothers.

@Livingthatlockdownlife

I think you're right. But at the minute I don't have the guts to follow through. It's easy to say I will but not so easy to walk away from the life we have built, the house, and most importantly the man love and the father of my child.
I guess I was hoping that someone would be able to offer something that could help me see my point of view but it's obvious that won't happen.
I hope that counselling helps me sort through my feelings on this and I'm fully prepared for the eventuality that I might come to see I am the problem, or that there is no other solution for me but to leave but I'm hoping with all my heart it won't come to that.

You are not the problem.. I guarantee!

Cross posted earlier - see my 2nd post!

Your OH and FIL will do anything to placate MIL. He is not putting your or DC interests first and never will unless their is radical change.

I would make counselling a condition of staying and trying to make the relationship work.

Your OH has shut you down over even trying to problem solve and work as a unit via a counsellor. He is happy as things are because his mum is placated because she comes to your house as much as she likes...

Honestly I don't think I am either. I was tearing myself apart wondering if it was all in my head but some things were revealed to me about her by old friends in January that confirmed I wasn't mad.
I might have understood the pram thing if she was never let push it but she always pushed. It was just bizarre.

@RandomMess

My plan is once I start my solo counselling to suggest he joins me. We have other issues over our 8 years together that were never fully resolved. It would be helpful all round to air things out.

@Jesssr
If I can give my opinion as a man reading this situation. My wife is my priority. I love my mother and have a fantastic relationship with her but if my wife was unhappy with my mother I would support my wife unless she was being unreasonable, as I'm sure most people would.

As MN would say you have a OH problem as well as a MIL problem. Unfortunately the setup you describe, with your OH working with her dad etc doesn't really leave room for things to change.

You may have already done it, but my advise to you is speak from the heart to your OH. Tell him how you really feel and if you feel like crying or getting emotional then do it. (Usually tears do a lot to emphasis how upset a person is, not that I'm advocating crying to solve a problem).

Ultimately you have power and control. For example, if you ended it with your OH and moved out his mother would hardly ever see her grandchild so I don't think she is out to get you or split you up. She is just overbearing and doesn't know boundaries and probably no one has challenged her with it before. Your OH and her husband are probably yes people to her. That is their problem and your OH needs to step up and stand up for you.

I would tell your OH you cant cope with his mother and have been thinking about moving a bit further away so you won't see her as much and he can come with or stay put. It will show whether he really has your back or if he is just a mummys boy who puts her before you. If he says he won't move you kind of have your answer about where you fit in with things.

Mangofandangoo
PicsInRednowhere did I say unsupervised so well done for reading that properly.

I read it properly. Your post quoted below makes clear that unsupervised access is a valid option here to make your MIL "lovely".

"Also just to say that unfortunately you will have to allow MIL to see the grandchild whether this is supervised or not, and even for a morning a week."

I'm sure I dont need to reiterate what a terrible idea that would be.

Blimey, I could not put up with all of that I'd honestly rather be a single parent and be done with that headache.

@R2519

Your opinion is very much appreciated. I would like to think I am as valued as your wife. For me, although we are currently not planning on getting married anymore, my loyalty lies with him. He is the man I have committed my life to, started a family with, I would have his back too as long as he was being reasonable.

So I suppose I should ask am I being unreasonable?
Is it unreasonable to not want his parents to be as involved as they want/expect?
Is it unreasonable to ask that we don't see them every week?
Is it unreasonable to ask him not to leave me alone with his mother when she comes round because he doesn't want to spend time with her and also because the relationship between us is nonexistent?
Is it unreasonable to turn down his requests for his mother to have our child alone when her past actions are the very reason I don't trust her? (He has on many occasions acknowledged that his mother has overstepped her mark)

@Jesssr you are not being unreasonable.

Married or not your OH doesn't have your back because it's easier to have you unhappy than his mother.

I 100% agree with living

This toxic family dynamic with narc MIL, interloper, OH, DGC and FIL is a well known and documented dysfunctional family system. You can research it all online.

There have been many, many threads on here with the same set up and the issues, behaviours and next actions of each of the characters / roles in this are so classic and predictable that once you know what you are looking at you can step back and see the whole pantomime play out.

Once you get educated on dysfunctional narc families you will feel less isolated and misunderstood - because currently you are the only one of the 4 that can see it. The other 3 are so bound up in emotional FOG it is their normal. However if you look outside of this family for information and guidance you will be supported by many, many people who are in the same situation.

And once you educate yourself it will relieve you of the massive burden that you are the unreasonable, crazy one.

This clarity will inform you and energise you that this is all wrong and you need to continue to protect your child, your bonding with your child and your own MH from the toxic antics of your personality disordered MIL, even more. You feelings, thoughts and actions are not wrong - they may feel extreme because you are in an extreme situation. This set up is not normal and normal rules don’t apply.

The challenge is whether your OH comes to see it in time and support you. That’s his journey to make, or stay in denial and leave you to protect you child alone.

Leaving him isn’t the right decision for you now. But knowing your feelings are right and not being subjugated by MIL is important. You have the power here.

You don’t have to do it aggressively.

You can express your boundaries calmly and with dignity and be clear and carry out the consequences. The consequences are instant and consistent ACTIONS not engaging in words and rows with a loon. It’s stating ONCE that your wishes have been broken, that this is your DC and you will now leave, ask her to leave, not open the door.

The same with your OH.

I would consider taking some emotional distance right now to settle, reset and regroup - so tell your OH that you won’t be seeing, contacting or discussing ILs for the next 6 weeks.

Get informed. Know you are right and they are wrong. Respect and protect your own feelings. Stay strong and calm. Have tactics and coping strategies in place - hope that OH becomes enlightened and eventually works with you to manage this. But even with him - don’t waste your breath - signpost him to some resources, he is the one who needs counselling - show him with actions not words. The sky will not fall in if his mother hears the word “No” - she will run off crying so what - weather it. She doesn’t get to dictate your life and rob you of joy in these finite precious days of motherhood with her threats of tears and trampling your wishes.

Honestly OP, you sound like you were hoping that all of us were going to tell you that you were unreasonable and to role over.

All this talk of counselling and ‘hoping’ he will join you, is wishful thinking. You’re just going to continue feeling unhappy and wasting your time waiting for your husband to put you first. I’m not saying this to be nasty, I just feel very sorry for you.

Read Toxic in laws and toxic parents...

It will all be very familiar!!!

www.bustle.com/articles/200805-9-types-of-toxic-in-laws-and-how-to-spot-them-in-the-wild

Yes read Susan Forwards book Toxic In-laws - it is reviewed above. It will give you loads of strategies on how to manage this situation.