If you're ok with porn....can you please not be

[yesterdaystotalsteps123]

So many people reply to messages on here about porn with"I'm ok with porn" can you please look at Rose Kalemba's fight to get her rape and torture removed from PornHub. This is what modern porn is. Stop being ok with it. And it's been going on for years because Traci Lords was underage back in the 70s/80s. Someone's right to masturbate shouldn't come before human trafficking and some people on here are part of the problem with their"porn is ok" stance. It's time to realise that unfortunately it's really not ok

For some people their desire for sexual gratification trumps whatever nasty and unethical stuff is going on behind the scenes that damages other people. Because when it comes down to it, other people don't matter. Users wilfully ignore the problems with porn because they want to get off and are maybe addicted.
And it's in private so they can convince themselves and others that they're still good people.
I don't know the answer but good thread.

Yanbu op, it's awful.

As I mentioned above, I think many women who say they are fine with it really don’t get what most of the sites are like today particularly if they don’t watch it themselves. It’s not just what you used to get on a DVD- Debbie does Dallas etc— these sites are full of redirections to cam sites, hook up sites and ‘escort’ sites. The clips gave headings that use revolting terms to describe women and their ‘bits’ — is their any bloody wonder a lot of men develop weird behaviours and expectations. I appreciate some women do watch it too .

As long as the performers are an adult and making a free and informed choice, then I can't see the issue. It's oppressive to force our own morality on performers, but I recognise there are performers (male and female) who are being coerced and underage. Clearly, that isn't OK and regulation/vetting videos is the best method against that.

Lucy GF penny

As long as the performers are an adult and making a free and informed choice, then I can't see the issue.
What about the men who get addicted then ruin their marriages/home lives?
What about the teen girls with lifelong anal injuries because teen boys expect anal and don't know how to do it safely?
What about the young men with erectile dysfunction because they've been desensitized to actual sex by watching porn?
What about the women who've been raped and abused then had that posted on the internet
There are so many wider issues, it's not as simple as whether (most of) the performers choose to do it and (most of) the viewers choose to watch it

YANBU op.

Have a browse on reddit sometime, the pornsick misogyny is rife, on any number of posts.

So many posters bring any topic onto the subject of porn, rape, incest, paedophilia.

A post recently showing a young child (around 6) and her dog had loads of posters making sex comments about her and saying she looked like an adult (she didn't, she was clearly a small child). Porn and easy access to stuff (that years ago would have been difficult to obtain and was hidden away) means that boys and young men have unrealistic expectations of sex, and girls are put under pressure to like anal and choking. Paedophilia almost seems to be normalised, as is incest, rape porn, slapping and choking.

How anyone can say porn isn’t a problem is beyond me.

Saying not all porn is like that is spectacularly dismissing the massive issue it is, beyond sex trafficking, and in ways that we should be protecting all girls and young women from.

@QuentinWinters i don't think that's porns fault, I think that's the perpetrators. It's akin to blaming McDonalds for obesity and starting a campaign on McDonalds. The wider issue is separate to porn as an industry. Indeed, reddit is an example of that.

All of your examples are underlining 'when it is a free and informed choice'.
Pressuring a young adult (18+) into anal is disgusting, a young adult of the same age making a free and informed choice is another thing.

Sex sells. Jacqueline Gold, a great example of feminism who I really admire, wouldn't be what she is without porn. It's been an indirect growth machine for her business.

I think the problem is that nobody it is a free or informed choice. And if it is not, it’s a crime.

Cognitive dissonance refers to the feelings of discomfort that arise when a person’s behavior or attitude is in conflict with the person’s values and beliefs, or when new information that is contrary to their beliefs is presented to them. People like consistency. They want the assurance that their values and beliefs have always been right. They always want to act in ways that are in line with their beliefs. When their beliefs are challenged, or when their behavior is not aligned with their beliefs, this creates a disagreement (dissonance).
Since the dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling, the person must either change their behavior, their attitude or their belief in order to reduce the dissonance and restore balance. The uncomfortable feeling caused by cognitive dissonance might manifest itself as stress, anxiety, regret, shame, embarrassment, or feelings of negative self-worth.

Every person has an inner need to keep their beliefs and behaviors consistent.
Any inconsistency caused by conflicting beliefs and behaviors causes a tension or disharmony. Just like hunger leads to an activity meant to reduce this hunger, the tension caused by cognitive dissonance will lead to an activity meant to reduce this tension.

Since the avoidance of cognitive dissonance is an innate desire, cognitive dissonance has a very powerful influence on our actions and behaviors. It affects our evaluations, judgments and decisions. It also explains many common but irrational human tendencies, such as justification, rationalization and our constantly shifting beliefs and attitudes.

The degree of cognitive dissonance experienced by a person varies depending on the particular situation that caused the dissonance and the circumstances surrounding the situation.

Personal cognitions, such as beliefs about self and personal values result in a higher degree of cognitive dissonance. People don’t like looking dumb, dishonest or unethical, therefore they will be very uncomfortable about any dissonance that threatens their self-image.

Ignoring the facts: Another sure sign of cognitive dissonance is ignoring the facts and making decisions that are wrong from a rational point of view.

Reduce The Significance Of The Conflicting Belief
This is the most common method of reducing cognitive dissonance. With this method, the person changes how they perceive the conflicting belief or behavior. In other words, they find a way of rationalizing the conflicting cognition.

Cognitive dissonance

If your sons grow up thinking porn is normal then I'm afraid that's on you as a parent. I know my husband and his, mates all watched it but were able to work out it wasn't a reflection of trule relationships.
Do you also worry about men forced in to porn? Or do you believe it's just women? Can you be entirely sure any worker isn't being forced to work? Hopefully you don't buy anything from abroad because children may have made that? What about migrant workers made to do other low paid work?
No on is,saying rape is okay but you actually have no idea if these women are being raped or not. I don't tend to watch hard-core anyway but it's ridiculous to suggest men watch it and go oh must do that to my girlfriend tonight? Those sort of people just use porn as an excuse.

Porn is abusive and misogynistic. Women are bitches, sluts, hot teens, milfs, gilfs, pussies, titties, tight, cum whores it's just disgusting and if Mumsnet users are ok with that, ok with their partners using that to masturbate then attitudes need to change. There are just too many who think using porn as a sex aid is fine. Acceptable and normal and we need to change that attitude. There are other ways to explore sex and sexuality that don't hurt women, children, men. If you're ok with it, stop. I suppose for some women it will feel like fighting a losing battle if they decide it's actually not ok because their partners won't stop using and they want to be with their partners. Make porn a deal breaker. In my experience it does go hand in hand with other abusive attitudes to women, but some will argue it doesn't. Bottom line is no matter if it looks like consenting adults it probably isn't. Lots of marriages look happy from the outside but you don't have a clue what's really happening. Plus, tons of it is designed to not look like consent because that is becoming or has become accepted by people. It's not ok

It's akin to blaming McDonalds for obesity and starting a campaign on McDonalds.
Errrr, no it isn't.
McDonalds is food and one of a number of restaurants serving it. Blaming McDonald's for obesity would be pointless, I agree. Campaigning for healthy eating is something that already happens with governments taxing certain kinds of food (sugar tax), banning others (toxic food) and closing restaurants that are unsafe in their practices.

The porn industry has none of these constraints. Anything goes, as long as you can put a veneer of consent on it. It's ridiculous and to me a better analogy would be allowing a completely uncontrolled drugs trade. Which most people think is a terrible idea.

These threads always focus on women and how they're the victims, what about the men who are in the same position? They're never ever mentioned.

Bloke here who doesn't use porn for what it's worth.

what about the men who are in the same position?
Is there a lot of porn showing men being slapped around and violently penetrated?

I don't watch porn so wouldn't know but I'd assume so.

Porn is very much like cocaine use in some ways. We know that both are extremely damaging to many people in society but there are so many people who are prepared to look the other way because they just don't care when they're not the ones getting hurt.

Do you know if there is?

You are correct. Porn objectifies women. It reduces sex to a commercial entity. It encourages acceptance of unhealthy practices and promotes hedonism.
It places women, particularly, young women at risk.

I would imagine some gay porn could be abusive Etc etc. However it is mostly women who are abused etc etc in porn. If you are concerned about men in porn perhaps start talking about it with your mates and starting a petition. But I’m more concerned about women in porn I’m afraid.

QuentinWinters, yes my understanding is that there is. There is certainly 'gay for pay' which comes about from drug addiction.
I think, for most men, it's a teenage hormonal driven thing arising from a rebellious attitude. The vast majority grow out of using it with a healthy sex life with a partner, but I recognise the connection you are making between abuse and porn as certainly evident. I'm not sure it is as simple as porn = abusive individuals, but agreed it could increase the risk factor.

The professional porn industry does have regulations such as up to date health checks & commercial legal contracts to protect performers. I think to narrow your point (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the issue is that there isn't sufficient regulation on the consumer end.

With that, you are looking at a regulated internet like China, as it would be impossible to enforce an individual videoing and uploading sex between consenting in a home environment. If yiu ban porn at source, then it is an extension of exhibitionism & voyeurism, so you'd be struggling to legally differentiate between things like public sex, bikinis, topless men. It's way too subjective at that point, and impossible to enforce without denying freedoms.

Education that porn is an exaggerated fantasy is far more likely to succeed.

@Coffeeandbeans I thought as much. I don't care enough about anything to start petitions so I'm not starting now. It's interesting to note that you don't care as it's "mostly" women that are abuser which suggests to me that there's a level it abuse that you're fine with.

Well it comes down to this; do I want either myself or anyone I care about to be going out with someone who uses porn?

No. To me, it’s like saying, I drink too much, or hit people, or have drug problems. These are pretty common problems that occur but the same thing, unacceptable.

It’s not good for men or women; both sexes can get addicted to using it. It will just steadily erode your ability to have good sex with an actual partner if used consistently. There are clinics with people who have now reprogrammed their sexual responses by using it.

Porn is a problem because of its legality and it’s variety. A partner cannot compete with that. Arousal with one person starts to pall.

I think to narrow your point (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the issue is that there isn't sufficient regulation on the consumer end.
No. I believe there isn't sufficient regulation on the distribution/hosting.

I'd like to see sites closed down if they host criminal material - like the rapes in the OP and the article linked upthread.

I'd like certain types of material banned and removed (incest, necrophilia, bestiality, rape, violence). That happens for the film industry and computer games, absolutely no reason it couldn't happen for porn. I'd like to see heavy financial penalties (or closure) for sites hosting banned material

I'd like stronger sanctions against ISPs if they allow minors to access porn. Google/facebook can profile us accurately enough to target advertising. Let's use those profiles to protect children and young people from inappropriate material.

None of this will happen because of the financial muscle of the porn industry and the benefit that the mostly men in power get from pretending that porn use is harmless and uncontrollable.

I buy porn from a feminist queer website. My conscience is entirely clear.

Images of people having sex isn't the problem. Male violence is the problem.