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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If you're ok with porn....can you please not be

245 replies

yesterdaystotalsteps123 · 21/05/2020 08:55

So many people reply to messages on here about porn with"I'm ok with porn" can you please look at Rose Kalemba's fight to get her rape and torture removed from PornHub. This is what modern porn is. Stop being ok with it. And it's been going on for years because Traci Lords was underage back in the 70s/80s. Someone's right to masturbate shouldn't come before human trafficking and some people on here are part of the problem with their"porn is ok" stance. It's time to realise that unfortunately it's really not ok

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
QuentinWinters · 22/05/2020 10:15

Read/watch this, then tell me porn is ok
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/13/conversation-abuse-porn-needs-extend-beyond-harm-set/

NewAccountForCorona · 22/05/2020 10:26

So how many being forced is too many? 10%? 1%? Do you know the people you are watching are the ones who are well paid and enjoy their work?

I don't believe I'm a sheep - in fact it seems that the sheep like behaviour is the unquestioning acceptance of porn as a fact of life.

I wonder whether we will get to a time where, like child porn now being called child sexual abuse, adult porn will be referred to as filmed abuse, because a lot of the time that is what it is.

Obviously if you only watch ethical porn, that's fine. In fact, surely there is a niche in the market for ethical porn, using only actors who enjoy their work and are well paid for it.

An interesting question I've raised with my (now adult) kids is: if you were watching and saw your sister/brother or one of your friends would you admire them for their choice of career and envy them their pay and working conditions? The responses have been interesting.

Roserock · 22/05/2020 10:37

It’s not about being a sheep rosebel . In fact people who Consume porn without question are more likely to be following the general public rather than those who question and oppose it. Now days those people are considered the anarchists and women like yourself are the sheep of the industry
As for stats I’ll suggest you start with professor Gail Dines .. she will get you started on the fact that over 88 percent of mainstream porn shows women being abused called s....ts , wh..res -and other names, spat on or titles like destroyed ‘ and watch them in pain You’ll also get some solid stats about trafficking and underage girls there .

If you need more resources I can certainly point you in the right direction as I studied and wrote in depth on this topic
As for the lady who has a friend working in porn who enjoys it well that’s great for her but please be aware she is in the minority . The average acting ‘career ‘ of porn stars is four years , many many have horrible background and regret their decisions and many many more suggest prolapsed bowels, stds etc
No, a difference of opinion doesn’t make anyone wrong I agree, but ignorance and a refusal to actually learn about the industry you support and the atrocities it commits does!!!!
As for a holier than thou attitude , lol, I’m afraid your very wrong . I have become close to many sex workers over the years and not once been accused of that. In fact I think most I know would appreciate someone who is more interested in learning about what leads many girls to this industry and the truths behind it, rather than talking to a consumer who really doesn’t care so long as it suits their agenda to get aroused.
So I’d ask you respectfully to consider getting educated perhaps take some university courses on women’s issues or I. The least read up on the reality of the industry
Isn’t it fine to start placing more important in women and girls safety and dignity that someone sexual arousal ?

Viviennemary · 22/05/2020 10:51

This sounds like some sort of temperance society. Get on your high horse about it if you like but dont expect everyone else to join in. In any case there are laws against hard-core porn.

Roserock · 22/05/2020 10:53

There are laws against hard core porn ? Where ?

Roserock · 22/05/2020 10:57

It’s very sad that respect for women and girls rights is equated with a ‘temperance society or high horses ‘. This is humanitarian issue not a matter of moderation of religiion . I personally have no issue with nudity or sex betwee. Consenting adult . The issue as several people have stated is that the porn industry is not about that , it’s primarily about exploitation and has a sordid and abusive trac record

HoppingPavlova · 22/05/2020 11:12

I’ve read of too many cases of women who, at the time, claim they are doing it of their own free will, feel empowered, having a great time, no issues etc then 10/15/20 years down the track do a backflip and say they now realise that’s not what it really was at the time, they just couldn’t see it due to various factors/issues. So, no I don’t really buy the ethical porn angle.

Redyellowpink · 22/05/2020 11:15

selling sex is 'the oldest job in the world'

Incorrect. Men selling women to other men (pimping) is the oldest job in the world

yesterdaystotalsteps123 · 22/05/2020 11:29

I started this thread exactly because of how blase some women seem to be on here with filmed abuse and exploitation. Some poor woman had posted about her husband watching porn with 3 young children in the house while she nipped to the shops and some posters obviously thought that was ok because they sometimes had sex with the children in the house. It is truly frightening that women are so accepting of male behaviour around porn and minimising the abuse that is clearly going on in the industry. We need to stop being ok with it. Stop accepting it as part of a healthy sex life, surely there are other ways to enjoy sex without being ok with this industry where you just don't know who is genuinely consenting and who isn't at the time or afterwards

OP posts:
Roserock · 22/05/2020 11:34

Yes Thankyou for posting it . I have to say it really quite upsetting to see how ok with it some women are and I am really shocked that what I see as a humanitarian issue is apparently me being on ones high horse or as one woman’s said a temperance meeting lol .
I think for my sanity I concede that there’s some people who will simply don’t think these issues are important enough for them to give up porn

TheVanguardSix · 22/05/2020 11:50

ethical porn

That's funny. What is it? A jackfruit used as a gag?
This is not just any old porn, it's 'ethical' porn (warning: may contain nuts).
Ethical and porn do not belong together. Ain't no such animal.

TheVanguardSix · 22/05/2020 11:53

OP I am with you 1000%. I think our current porn culture is totally, totally morally destructive.

UncleFoster · 22/05/2020 12:37

Personally ive never seen a programme on porn and thought 'these women seem to enjoy their careers, and it fits in with thier lifestyle'

I tend to be pretty horrified at the exploitation of women. Even ones who say they enjoy it. Your also unlikely to get trafficked women to appear on tv.

If your DD came to you at 18 and said "hey mum, my new job is as a porn star. I love it" would you just say 'thats lovely darling'?

Then would you go and tell your work colleagues or her grandparenrs 'DD is a porn star'.

Then would you be happy for your boss to have a wank over a video of your DD having anal?

Would you be happy for the grotty man in the pub to recognise her? What about the group of teenage boys in the park?

Because personally the thought of that makes me feel sick. And I dont even have a daughter! But sure porn is ajust a job like any other!

MostTacticalNameChange · 22/05/2020 12:44

People saying most of it is fine are soooo naïve. The last thing I want to do is give porn sites traffic but if you haven't seen it for yourself you won't understand what it is like nowadays. Sure you can find (what looks like) non exploitative/extreme stuff but you need to wade through the abuse, degradation, destroyed, young teen, force, choking, slapping tags for it. And it all gets normalised. Categories of women. Racism. Plastic surgery the norm. Zero health and safety - in no other job would it be considered safe for someone to spit in your mouth, choke you and draw blood.

It just goes soooo against all the human rights, health and safety, political correctness and equality progress we have made in the rest of society. Making sex something where norms are out the window cannot be healthy.

But it is so very effective, something you can view for a few minutes then completely forget about. People won't give it up. Don't know the answer.

Sassandfaff1 · 22/05/2020 13:07

Pornstars speak out

Sassandfaff1 · 22/05/2020 13:23

Porn stars speak out about the reality of the porn industry
Brenn Wynson

“I am Brenn Wyson former kink gay porn star. What I can say? What goes on behind closed doors is a lot a sex abuse in way of transmitting HIV, HEP and whatever STD will snake there way in the the doors of Kink.com. The stars working at kink.com, making money will never disclose their bad behavior and the porn stars they throw to the trash. The drugs the lies the penis injections, which is against the law in San Fran to give to a porn star. But the are sure willing to stick your genitals to get the job done. I know what goes on behind closed doors and its sick, unsafe and your life is one the line. Trust me Kink.com will talk shit about you If you have a mouth to speak. I know because It happened to me. Its has taken me a long time to get my real career back and make an honest living. You never want to become a porn star because all the main porn companies will lie to you. Now I have to deal with Hep C, As a boxer this has been a damper on my life. I’m still a fighter and have recreated my life. Hopefully I can redirect others into stepping on the devils tale in the palace of porn."

Danielle Williams

A female porm star that'd been in the industry for a while had excessive anal intercourse and a piece of her muscle from her anus fell out on set while she was filming. Some females damaged their reproductive systems which left them unable to have children. A male porn star broke the muscle in his penis because he was having abnormal and outragous rough sex. I found that a male porn star who was in the business for a while was a devil worshipper. Both male and female porn stars were committing suicide. A lot of the porn stars were known to go overseas and do beastiality in porn. (Sleeping with animals.) Shortly after that, a numerous amount of people starting turning up with diseases, Herpes to be exact.

Herpes! They will let you work with it! - excerpt from Danielle's book, "From Porn to the Pulpit" - page 98

Ashlyn Brooke

I honestly felt that if I had to have another strange man in my face, his hands (God knows where they've been all over me) him calling me his baby and having to exude some sort of forged passion for the world to see, I probably would have exploded. And what would have been stuck to the walls would have probably been nothing, just pieces of skin, bone, the brain of a robot, and what would have been left of what would have existed once as a huge and warm heart.

Linda Lovelace

Linda Lovelace has much to say about her pornographer: "When in response to his suggestions I let him know I would not become involved in prostitution in any way and told him I intended to leave, [Traynor] beat me up physically and the constant mental abuse began. I literally became a prisoner, I was not allowed out of his sight, not even to use the bathroom, where he watched me through a hole in... the door. He slept on top of me at night, he listened to my telephone calls with a .45 automatic eight shot pointed at me. I was beaten physically and suffered mental abuse each and every day thereafter. He undermined my ties with other people and forced me to marry him on advice from his lawyer."

"My initiation into prostitution was a gang rape by five men, arranged by Mr. Traynor. It was the turning point in my life. He threatened to shoot me with the pistol if I didn't go through with it. I had never experienced anal sex before and it ripped me apart. They treated me like an inflatable plastic doll, picking me up and moving me here and there. They spread my legs this way and that, shoving their things at me and into me, they were playing musical chairs with parts of my body. I have never been so frightened and disgraced and humiliated in my life. I felt like garbage. I engaged in sex acts for pornography against my will to avoid being killed.The lives of my family were threatened."

Corina Taylor

"When I arrived to the set I expected to do a vaginal girl boy scene. But during the scene with a male porn star, he forced himself anally into me and would not stop. I yelled at him to stop and screamed 'No' over and over but he would not stop. The pain became too much and I was in shock and my body went limp."

Roxy

"After only 30 movies I caught two sexually transmitted diseases. Herpes, a non-curable disease and HPV, which led to cervical cancer where I had to have half of my cervix removed. Porn destroyed my life."

Jenna Jameson

"Most girls get their first experience in gonzo films – in which they’re taken to a crappy studio apartment in Mission Hills and penetrated in every hole possible by some abusive asshole who thinks her name is Bitch. And these girls, some of whom have the potential to become major stars in the industry, go home afterward and pledge never to do it again because it was such a terrible experience.”

Anita Cannibal

"I have been a performer now for 14 years in the adult film industry in many countries, states . . . all over the place. I have worked for most of these companies, and I was around for the once-a-month HIV-positive outbreak in ’98. Yes, I was, and I got to see those performers that nobody knows about—that nobody claims that got HIV, that are not a part of the statistics—walk out the door as non-performers, not to be counted."

"Yeah, there are a lot of cover-ups going on. There is a lot of tragedy. There are a lot of horrible things."

Stephanie Swift

"I was sexually abused the first time by my step grandfather on my dad's side and the second time by my actual stepdad so my sexuality was messed up from the beginning. I created another personality that was in complete control and didn't have those things happen and didn't have to deal with the pain. The industry is not a real accomplishment. It's just a false sense of accomplishment. It covers everything up for what it is."

Belladonna

“I like to hide — hide everything, you know?... And I'm not happy... I don't like myself at all... My whole entire body feels it when I'm doing it and... I feel so — so gross.”

Andi Anderson

"After a year or so of that so-called “glamorous” life, I sadly discovered that drugs and drinking were a part of the lifestyle. I began to drink and party out of control! Cocaine, alcohol and ecstasy were my favorites. Before long, I turned into a person I did not want to be. After doing so many hardcore scenes I couldn’t do it anymore. I just remember being in horrible situations and experiencing extreme depression and being alone and sad." - Andi Anderson

Lucky Starr

"I was worried about my first anal scene for quite a few days ... then the big moment arrived. It REALLY hurt! I almost quit and said, "I can’t do this". When it was all over, I was so happy and relieved I was able to do it. But I still have to think if I want to do anal on a regular basis. It did hurt a lot! So will I continue to do anal? Let’s wait for my butt to heal, then we’ll talk."

Alexa Milano

My first movie I was treated very rough by 3 guys. They pounded on me, gagged me with their penises, and tossed me around like I was a ball! I was sore, hurting and could barely walk. My insides burned and hurt so badly. I could barely pee and to try to have a bowel movement was out of the question. I was hurting so bad from the physical abuse from these 3 male porn stars! - Alexa Milano

Jessie Jewels

"People in the porn industry are numb to real life and are like zombies walking around. The abuse that goes on in this industry is completely ridiculous. The way these young ladies are treated is totally sick and brainwashing. I left due to the trauma I experienced even though I was there only a short time." - Jessie Jewels

Jersey Jaxin

"Guys punching you in the face. You have semen from many guys all over your face, in your eyes. You get ripped. Your insides can come out of you. It's never ending." - Jersey Jaxin

Tamra Toryn

"As for myself, I ended up paying the price from working in the porn industry. In 2006, not even 9 months in, I caught a moderate form of dysplasia of the cervix(which is a form of HPV, a sexually transmitted disease) and later that day, I also found out I was pregnant. I had only 1 choice which was to abort the baby during my first month. It was extremely painful emotionally and physically. When it was all over, I cried my eyes out."- Tamra Toryn

Elizabeth Rollings

"I didn’t want to feel the pain of penetration from an over average sized man, being told to freeze in a position until the camera man was happy with his shots was very painful. I had peoples body fluids forced on my face or anywhere else the producer pleased and I had to accept it or else no pay. Sometimes you would get to a gig and the producer would change what the scene was supposed to be to something more intense and again if you didn’t like it, too bad, you did it or no pay." - Elizabeth Rollings

Becca Brat

I hung out with a lot of people in the Adult industry, everybody from contract girls to gonzo actresses. Everybody has the same problems. Everybody is on drugs. It's an empty lifestyle trying to fill up a void."

"I became horribly addicted to heroin and crack. I overdosed at least 3 times, had tricks pull knives on me, have been beaten half to death- the only reason I am still here is God. - Becca Brat

Lara Roxx

“We should think about these issues right now, to change stuff around to make this a safer f**kin’ business. It isn’t a safe business, and I thought it was, and I would have not did that scene with no condom with Darren James if it would have crossed my mind that those tests weren’t good and that I couldn’t trust him or the people he’s been with. I thought porn people were the cleanest people in the world, is what I thought.” - Lara Roxx, diagnosed with HIV in April, 2004 along with four other porn stars.

HoppingPavlova · 22/05/2020 14:06

MostTacticalNameChange is spot on. Many even have interviews years prior at some stage claiming how empowering it is and everyone chants ‘ethical porn’ but later the truth comes out.

This is the stuff I have always educated my kids on. This is what porn really is. This is what is really behind it. If you watch porn you are enabling this. I don’t think any of my kids watch it (can’t say this 100% hand on heart though), I think they got the memo.

yesterdaystotalsteps123 · 22/05/2020 14:14

@Sassandfaff thank you, I read every word of that. It should be posted on every porn site until things change. I just don't understand why people think it's their entitlement to look at this abuse as part of their sex life. Find something else, books, a painting, something else to stimulate your imagination, something non-abusive, it's surely not a big ask to not watch it and to not be ok with it. It's so sad how people just have a "get a grip, I enjoy it" attitude

OP posts:
fandajji · 22/05/2020 14:38

Agree OP. Used to be fine with it, even used to watch the more awful ones. Mainly girls being raped whilst drunk and unconscious. Years of therapy later and I'm more than ok without it. Hearing the sad stories of exploitation and abuse means I now actively campaign against it - probably out of guilt to be honest.

Turnandfacethenamechange · 22/05/2020 15:03

I just watched Hot Girls Wanted on Netflix and it really opened my eyes. They seem so so so young and naive Sad

ItsMsActually · 22/05/2020 16:11

I'm so glad more sensible people are in agreement with just how vile and atrocious the whole industry is.
I notice all the pro porn users have gone very quiet now...

bluestarsatnightfall · 22/05/2020 16:31

Well I'll still be watching the odd bit of porn. Yes some of it is horrible and ppl have been exploited but not all of it can be placed in that category. Maybe the ppl who don't watch porn should and stop being Debbie downers. Over and out 👋

jeaux90 · 22/05/2020 16:43

Porn being liberating for women is the biggest lie ever sold to liberals and liberal feminists.

It's the same commodification of our bodies as prostitution and surrogacy.

Porn is impacting our teenagers. The easy access by young males is directly linked to the increase in sexual violence in our mixed secondary schools.

There were over 5000 cases in the last three years and about 500 of those were rapes.

Porn is not harmless.

UncleFoster · 22/05/2020 17:01

Still no one has been able to comment how they know the porn they are watching isnt trafficked/abused/exploited women...

How they know that the woman consented fully and happily.

That the sites they are supporting dont have any of the above content. Or the women involved have never been involved in anything they didnt consent to.

The above article is really good. And its not the only article Ive read about women in porn consenting to one thing and being forced into something else once they are there.

Is it because people really dont give a shit about getting off to someone being raped?

LexMitior · 22/05/2020 17:24

I think the only thing you can really do is what used to happen when porn was regulated. Raise your kids not to waste their time with it, avoid anyone who buys sexual services (cam girls, prostitution, etc) and that you should really only pursue relationships with people who can respect that.

You can’t police people’s morality at home, in private. It’s now impossible. So you have to decide for yourself, and teach your children what will probably stop them being exploited or used.

There are problems in mixed schools with pornography. It is not dealt with. If you have girls, then it’s just better to place them in a single sex school at secondary level so that don’t have to deal with the fallout. Children at a certain age are naturally curious; but parents can’t handle porn as a problem.