Anyone married to a lawyer?

[angelofmum]

I feel like I can't go on with my DH. Together for 10yrs and 3 young kids but he is a workaholic. I knew he worked ridiculously long hours when I met him but when you're young and in love you naively hope things will get better. No one gets what it's like being married to a lawyer unless they are married to one, none of my friends can believe the hours he works. Now he's a partner in a law firm he just works round the clock night and day - he doesn't have a life outside of work. He's constantly bombarded with emails etc.. and he doesn't set any boundaries between work/home life. I thought things might be better with him at home during lockdown but if anything I've seen him less. Back to back calls/deals/document reviews etc.. some days he's at his desk from 8am until 3am without much of a break. He'll bath the boys "to help me out" but that's it. He's a good person but I think incredibly selfish. He puts his own needs before those of his family. He has minimal time with the kids and even less time for me. I'm in my 30's and feel like life is passing me by. My DH and I never eat together unless it's the weekend, hardly ever go to bed together, sex is rare as he's either working late or tired. He's always so busy that he never listens to me or hears what I say, I can see his mind is ticking over and thinking about work - I actually feel invisible.
I've threatened so many times to leave but I'm scared of being on my own as I have no income. I also come from divorced parents and I don't want to do that to the kids. I hate that he knows how I feel but he just says that's the way it is and I have to accept it. I've had CBT as he wouldn't try couples counselling and the upshot was I leave or he has to start setting some boundaries but he hasn't and won't. Anyone else a lawyer or married to one? How does your relationship survive?

Ooh that's tough. I'm a lawyer and the only time I ever worked hours like that was as a trainee. If he's a Partner he ought to be able to work as much or as little as he would like to but focus more on innovation and client maintenance. Most partners I know don't have an active caseload that demands those kind of hours. To me it seems like he's choosing to work like that because if it's a cultural issue at his firm then he would pick his family and leave now. I think you need to sit down together and try and figure out with him why he chooses to work as hard as he does. It might be that he has an exit plan in place.

How big a firm does he work at? Is he a salaried partner or does he have shareholding in the firm?

He's a banking lawyer does that make any difference? He also says to me that if he doesn't have to work he wouldn't. He's been a partner for the last 2yrs and is building up his practice on the lender side as this company didn't have many clients. They're a US firm in London, but supposedly not US firm hours (I think otherwise!). I suspect that it's an ego thing and he gets his self-worth from being top dog at work. The other partners are very busy but I don't know to what extent.

I was (I'm a widow). Yep he spent 120 days a year travelling (international law firm - before kids I went with him on occasion), out before 6am to get to the gym before work and back after 8PM most days. Not one holiday that he didn't have half an eye on his BlackBerry or had a four hour conference call. I remember once saying it would be nice to go out to dinner for once and he said 'but I have to go out all the time'! Yea well I was always stuck at home getting the kids to bed!
But. But. He was managing partner when I met him. His hours were like that all the time I knew him (probably why he had a heart attack so young). I also am the daughter of a doctor and remember him missing Christmas and always having to find a phone to check in when we went anywhere (no mobiles back then)! Long shifts and a distracted mind were the norm.
But that's what those professions require. And I'm sure he will say he's doing it to provide for you and your family. My husband's ex always said he was more married to the job than her. Sure there were plenty of times I felt he wasnt really present even when he was around, but his passion for his job was one of the things that made him so attractive. He had drive and ambition. It may have helped that I was 39 when I met him so very independent. And as I said he was already working those hours so it wasn't a surprise. What did surprise me was how much of myself I subsumed when I became a wife and mother. I wasn't me, I was X's wife and Y and Z's mother. I truly resented that. But I never resented my husband's work. It was who he was. And now he's gone, I'd give anything to have him back. And I wish I could tell him how much I love him and how grateful I am that he so much for us.

He's a shareholder. Not an equity partner yet but has been told he'll be fast tracked as he's billed so many hours.
The money is obviously a massive bonus, but it's got to the point where I think what is it he's working so hard for? I'm not a flashy person who ever asks him for anything. We have a nice house etc.. but he's never here to enjoy the benefits of his hard work. He honestly doesn't have a life it's just work, work, work. If I ever bring it up it ends in an argument. He says there is no life/work balance when you work in a successful law firm. His plan is to work hard, get his money & retire early 50's. In the meantime the kids and I are on our own for the next 20yrs and I have to accept that I won't get any of my needs met in our marriage.

@Pipandmum I'm so sorry you've lost your husband😞Reading what you wrote is exactly my life! Although I'd probably share the views of the ex-wife. It's great that you were so understanding, I've tried but I just can't. Part of the reason I get so angry/frustrated with him is that work comes before absolutely everything including his own health. When he's closing a deal he may work for 72hrs straight with barely any sleep. He gets heart palpitations when he does this and stomach problems as he's not eating properly when he's so busy. He won't listen and us stubborn. He'll agree with me that it's bad but then carry on as he is...

A suggestion - read 'Untamed' by Glennon Doyle. It's available on kindle if you have one?

I am a sahm now but was a lawyer in a silver circle firm for a decade and long hours were the culture for many, esp junior partners. You could work shorter if you were really good at managing and accepted less career progression. When I was given the partner talk it was clear they would want blood. On my floor, at midnight if you walked around you would see quite a few junior partners and a couple of overworked senior assistants, unusual to see a trainee or v junior lawyer.

But... we did socialise, we had the odd riotous night out and weekends away - so it is possible - he will be doing marketing where he has to focus on the person - I was able to focus on people outside work, it is possible.

He might be stressed, afraid of losing his job, on the other hand, if he is building up a sector, rather than being inundated?

@Pipandmum i am sorry

We are both lawyers. We both left huge City firms when our oldest was born. I do something law related but exciting and fun, DH is still a solicitor but works in industry in a senior role. We still earn very good money, just not stratospheric money. Looking at the broken marriages, the grey hairs and heart attacks our friends who went all the way have been through (and yes, I say that with the obvious disclaimers) I’ve no regrets.

He sounds incredibly driven and passionate about his work. Perhaps also quite old-fashioned in assuming that he can work whilst his wife stays at home and watches the children? Ultimately, I think you will have to choose between what you have and what you want. I can’t imagine he would want to reduce his hours without resenting you for making him do this.

When you both decided to have children, did he play a part in this? Some men are happy to have an heir and a family to go home to, but aren’t the hands-on sort. Some men feel that having children is fulfilling their wife’s needs to be a mother, but isn’t necessarily something they’re desperate for.

If you left him, he would obviously have to pay maintenance for the children, but how would the children feel? Do you argue at home? Is there a negative atmosphere that the children could pick up on? If you left, would you miss having him around and the small amount of contact you currently have? If you didn’t go on to meet someone else and find the grass greener, would you be happy with that, or would you want back what you have given up?

Not married to a lawyer but instead a farmer. During the summer he works dawn to dusk, including weekends, but the big difference is the earnings would be a fraction of your husbands!
I don't have an answer for you OP and I completely sympathise. I bet there are lots of people in the same boat though. What about chefs, or fishermen, or doctors....

@ShredMeJillianIWantToBeNatalie this is what I'm worried about. Getting divorced or him having an early death😞No job or no amount of money is worth that. Unfortunately I can't get him to see my point of view on this.

I'm a lawyer married to a lawyer. I will go through spells where I frequently have to work into the evenings (till 10-11 p.m. or into the small hours) and then spells where it's quieter. Weekends are usually fairly free. My husband's hours are shorter because of how he works. Neither of us are partners.

As to there being no work/life balance when you work in a successful law firm - it depends on the firm and the department and also the culture built by the partners in a given department, but your husband's hours do sound extreme even from a US law firm standard. As you say, he's a workaholic and he is choosing to work this hard because of the power and status that come with it and because of his long-term plan to retire early 50s. Of course, if he continues to work this hard, he may not make it to his early 50s (or at least not in a state that allows him to enjoy his retirement), a point you have doubtless made to him. But it sounds like he's in a particularly strongly 'macho bullshit' environment where the partners have created a culture in which everyone has to act like they're made of steel and have no needs outside delivering work for their clients. There are firms like that around and some people thrive there. Their families generally don't - or at least the families thrive without them. Also, frankly, working extremely long hours for clients is still easier than trying to entertain and keep up with 3 young kids so I am absolutely certain that part of it is that he just wants to avoid the effort which comes with looking after his DC.

You have to decide whether or not you can live with this situation but there's no point making baseless threats to leave since he's learned that you won't follow through. Of course, you want to avoid leaving but it does sound as if he currently sees no real reason to stop working the way he's working because he's not feeling the consequences of the choices which he's making for the entire family. It's hard to see what else (apart from a serious personal health crisis) is going to cause him to modify his working patterns.

You presumably have no income because you have become a SAHM because your DH is never at home. You are performing an incredibly important job but it is unsalaried. Since you're married, I think you would be entitled to maintenance from him to pay for the children and support yourself. I don't know the details but someone else will be able to point you in the right direction. So you wouldn't be without an income. But if not having an income troubles you, could you consider going back to work part-time once the lockdown is over? Perhaps you could put your DCs in nursery or some other form of childcare for some of the week. Or even all of it, depending on what you wish to do. Your H should share the cost of that. You should regard the childcare costs as an investment in your and your children's future (that's how I saw them).

Because in the end, I think having your own income will give you an independence which you currently feel you are missing and may help you create a family situation which is more acceptable to you.

(I hasten to add that I may have read it entirely wrong - and being an SAHM is an incredible thing to do and it's great if you're happy being an SAHM. But being without your own income does make it harder to get away if you are unhappy in your marriage).

@Fiveasidefootballfamily you mention some good points and it's what I go back and forth about all the time in my mind. He is old fashioned I guess, his mum raised him and his siblings and his dad had a successful job. What's ironic is his mum hated it and still to this day in her 70's will go on about her husband missing out. With hindsight he wishes he had of been there more. DH just says well I'll be retired by 50 so will have lots of time then. That's if he is still alive! I also think there's something pretty sad about writing off the next 20yrs and saying you'll start living again once you're older. I would miss him and we get on for the most part. The only thing we've ever argued about from the get go is his job. There's not really tension in the house unless we've been arguing about him not spending time with me or the kids. They hate that he works long hours too but he justify's it to them and I don't want them to grow up and do the same. Life is too short.

Is it the fact that you think he chooses to do the hours that makes it so hard? I don't think there is much of a choice at all. I left the industry because I knew I didn't want to be a partner - apart from the work hours having to give up weekends for corporate events like rugby etc just didn't appeal. I really sympathise.

I am married to someone at a very similar level. Yes there is travel, long hours and leaving/arriving home at stupid-o-clock, but he keeps a far better grip on work-life balance than your husband. But there are people at his level who are there at all hours and quite a few of them aren't much more effective. Fundamentally they are choosing to do it. Are you sure he isn't doing work that should be handled by associates instead? Lack of delegation can be a major problem and it is not how a partner should be working.

I am a lawyer in the Finance and Projects division of a well known international law firm.

Banking is BONKERS right now. So many deals and so much work. I can understand how he is manic in lockdown.

However, it is clear he is a workaholic and that law is merely the drug of choice. Prospects and pay are appealing but, really, he has more or less dumped you and DC. Sorry. I expect you will put up with this until he has an affair (they usually do).

Change the locks. Tell him to come home when he is ready to be present.

And I echo @MaybeDoctor in that he is choosing this. He could put up boundaries work/life but he isn’t.

He is actually running too work and running away from you - and you are facilitating it. The thing about him not going to counselling is because he doesn’t value you. He’d go if his boss told him to.

@Dery yes it's very telling that there is only one female partner in the whole department and she is in her 50's, no kids. I can't say I know what it's like working there as I only see these people if ever I'm invited to drinks etc.. They are supposed to be a family friendly firm, which I find laughable. They organise family days a few times a year but it's a bit insulting to be honest. The MD once said to me "thank you for letting us have your husband" as if a work cinema trip was going to make up for it. To be fair to him he can have quiet spells but they are rare. He only works weekends if he has a deal on but he is constantly answering emails and is at the beck and call of his clients. I've wanted to smash his phone to pieces sometimes! He's good with the kids when he has the time. He's hands on in the sense of doing things with them but he definitely falls short on his parental responsibilities. I was a teacher and could go back to this, you're right that empty threats now fall on deaf ears.

@PersonaNonGarter Bit harsh to say he'd have an affair? He works in a male dominated profession but yes anyone could cheat. I definitely could as I'm on my own a lot but I don't!

I sympathise, we had a life-changing bereavement which changed our perspective. That I do not recommend. But in terms of how it changed our lives, we haven’t looked back.

OP, sorry if you think I was harsh. I am a stranger on the internet, and I don’t know your husband. But, from the workaholic husbands that I do know and have worked with, eventually they have affairs.

The OW is there, similar focus, total understanding of the thing that is driving them both. It just cuts through.

That said, I work with one workaholic who is unlikely to have an affair. He works all the hours god sends because his homelife is stressful and chaotic and unusually noisy and he simply can’t face it.

Sounds like it’s ultimatum time to me. Done nicely ideally as you don’t want him to generate resentment on his part.

Can he take a “lesser” job somewhere else?