Anyone married to a lawyer?

[angelofmum]

I feel like I can't go on with my DH. Together for 10yrs and 3 young kids but he is a workaholic. I knew he worked ridiculously long hours when I met him but when you're young and in love you naively hope things will get better. No one gets what it's like being married to a lawyer unless they are married to one, none of my friends can believe the hours he works. Now he's a partner in a law firm he just works round the clock night and day - he doesn't have a life outside of work. He's constantly bombarded with emails etc.. and he doesn't set any boundaries between work/home life. I thought things might be better with him at home during lockdown but if anything I've seen him less. Back to back calls/deals/document reviews etc.. some days he's at his desk from 8am until 3am without much of a break. He'll bath the boys "to help me out" but that's it. He's a good person but I think incredibly selfish. He puts his own needs before those of his family. He has minimal time with the kids and even less time for me. I'm in my 30's and feel like life is passing me by. My DH and I never eat together unless it's the weekend, hardly ever go to bed together, sex is rare as he's either working late or tired. He's always so busy that he never listens to me or hears what I say, I can see his mind is ticking over and thinking about work - I actually feel invisible.
I've threatened so many times to leave but I'm scared of being on my own as I have no income. I also come from divorced parents and I don't want to do that to the kids. I hate that he knows how I feel but he just says that's the way it is and I have to accept it. I've had CBT as he wouldn't try couples counselling and the upshot was I leave or he has to start setting some boundaries but he hasn't and won't. Anyone else a lawyer or married to one? How does your relationship survive?

sorry.
what you describe sounds very normal for a banking law partner.
Whether you want to stay with it is another question....

US firms... his hours sound very standard.

He needs to do two things.... envisage not being in the job. What prestige, self confidence, identity does he get from this? I say this as especially US firms scare you into thinking any move is just the worst, a fall into the abyss. They know money alone won’t keep you, so they scare people into staying.

Second... he needs a solid escape plan he sticks to. The truly only “successful” US firm lawyer I know of was one who literally walked out (planned all along) one year with no warning, didn’t really give a shit... had more importantly planned his post-US law firm life and was sticking to it.

US firms like lots of others aren’t nice to women. Speak from experience

PS - Scott not wanting to be impolite but you have no idea what you are talking about.

No advice but following as my DH is exactly the same (except consultant soon to be partner not lawyer!). You have my sympathies

Similar being married to a doctor. Can you connect with other lawyers’ wives?

Meant to say... nice to women, or families. They don’t give a shit about you. Literally a partner could die and they don’t care beyond the numbers, it’s a whole system.

I have friends whose husbands are/were. One got divorced, the other has used the money to buy herself time and parenting/domestic help basically. They have a full time nanny and a cleaner. She says it isn't how she would like it to be and would rather have her husband but she can live with it because she is at least not trying to parent their 4 kids alone.

I'm at a city law firm with some seriously hardworking partners and associates. Absolutely right that crazy hours are a feature some of the time but I still think that year round crazy hours aren't necessary and actually are unsustainable.

Whether or not your DH could reduce his hours: the fact is that your DH is replicating what he grew up with - a father who worked all hours and an SAHM. You have three sons. Do you want them to grow up with the same model?

@cleopatrascorset I’m sure the lawyers’ bereaved families found it really fucking hilarious.

OP there's a relevant section in Michelle Obama's biography (great read anyway) where she talks about learning not to be mad at Barack for forcing her to play second fiddle, but to go out and get her own purpose, goals etc.

Genuinely not trying to be flippant or condescending - i was married to a similarly busy husband and found it an interesting perspective.

Also, do what a PP suggested by spending his income to help buy you time & help. There is no point to his earning so much without the benefits it is supposed to bring. Good luck :-)

Anyway, I'm not surprised his hours are somewhat brutal given his firm and position, and there's not an obvious way to transition a banking practice to somewhere less pressurised because it's so City focussed. It's bonkers really his options are so constrained, but that's the reality.

This rings bells with a family member. He was like this, part of it was the job, but in general he cared about his reputation and was a workaholic. He did retire early but that point his kids had grown up and moved out. He had expected they would want to do family holidays and spend time with him, but they had their own lives by then. His wife too had her own hobbies and friends. He died two years after retirement, heart attack as well. It was all very sad. I remember him saying to me, very confused, but I am around all the time now, why doesn't anyone want to do anything. He made himself indespensible to his work, but in the process, made himself dispensible where his family was concerned

I was a city lawyer. I still work in a related field but with much shorter hours (and much less pay) because I couldn’t have a family and work those hours.

The hours your dh works are not unusual and he is clearly driven. But with my ex, I worked such long hours that we ended up with nothing in common. My whole life was working or worrying/thinking about work. For some it’s worth it. For me it wasn’t. I missed dd1s first steps. I was missing so much of her life. It wasn’t worth it.

In a way you are lucky as you can enjoy his financial success without having up put in the hours and work he does. But if that’s not enough for you, you will have to decide what you want to do about it.

As a former banking associate at a US law firm, I'd say those hours are pretty standard for going through a crisis such as this. Even in regular times, if you had a good deal flow you'd expect to do those hours for at least a week each month, probably wi an all nighter or two thrown in.
I moved on after being told I needed to bill 3500 hours to get back onto partnership track after maternity leave and would have to alternate months in the UK and US. Strangely, that didn't appeal!
Now in house. Currently juggling work and home schooling so back to 6am starts and 11pm finishes and really noticing how much harder it is a few years down the line and glad I got out when I did.
As for choice, does he get one? Nonetheless, it is a choice to stay at that type of firm doing what he does although depending on things like mortgage, school fees and that sort of thing he might not feel as though he does have a choice as it could be so disruptive for the family if he stepped down.
I have worked over the years with a lot of men (and a few women) who would rather be at work than at home with the family. Lockdown is showing me that I prefer work to a lot of other things. I would rather tackle a legal issue than go for a run or play another bloody game of ludo. I have probably always been like this but not admitted it and instead have blamed it on a demanding boss.
He won't change. So are you prepared to wait for him to be in his 50s? What happens if he loses his job before then?

My first love was a lawyer and we lived together for over 3 years. He worked all hours including weekends. It was ok, but I felt lonely so I hear you. Now that I am older with a child I can only imagine how hard it must be. Also it can be hard not being in the 'lawyers club' - I found that tricky too. I always felt a bit of a thicko around him and his friends.

I’m married to a lawyer too OP. He’s often in work at 5am until 10/11pm. Works all weekend too. He’s not been here in the mornings with us for over two months. He comes home so late we NEVER eat together.

We do have sex about once a month, when he’s usually not too tired or stressed. Always on a weekend though!

I’m used to it and I do like time on my own, but, sometimes it does get to me. I do everything for our DD and all the housework. I only work part time (we actually work on the same firm - didn’t meet there!) so I don’t mind but it can get lonely sometimes.

Why don't you arrange an appointment with someone in his firm to discuss his hours?

WTF? The OP wants to stay married - why on earth would she do that?

OP, I was a banking lawyer at a MC firm. I left because as much as I loved it, it was all-consuming and my DC needed more from me than I could give while doing that job.

None of my relationships worked out as there was too much of a gulf between the other person's expectations and the reality of my work. Which is one reason lawyers tend to date other lawyers. The only relationships I've seen work between finance lawyers and people outside the industry tend to be those where the spouse uses the money to outsource domestic stuff, accepts the reality of the lifestyle and mostly does their own thing. You focus on the big holidays and take advantage of the down-time as it comes, but accept that the lawyer will have limited involvement in the everyday routine as their work is just too unpredictable.

When you have super-demanding clients and time-sensitive work, the lawyers who are likely to be successful tend to be the ones who can put their clients first. There's huge pressure on junior baking partners nowadays, and the notion that you can make partner and put your feet up is based on the law firms of yesteryear - it's not like that now and banking partners work harder than some of the associates. Having other commitments (such as family) means you end up feeling like a slave to many masters. It's really hard if you're being pulled in several directions, and there's enough of this from other clients.

Realistically, I don't think the kind of relationship/lifestyle that you would like is compatible with DH's career. If he were minded to move to a silver circle firm, you'd know by now as you can tell early on the lawyers who are happy to take the trade-off and they've usually made up their minds before they get to partner level (or they move down in order to make partner). This is his lifestyle and I think you should be considering whether there's any way you can get on board with it or whether it's a dealbreaker for you.

Professional firms are filled with insecure overachievers at the higher levels: www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180924-are-you-an-insecure-overachiever

I have worked in a US firm (but not as a billing attorney) as well as UK firms in the City. The difference is that US firms own their lawyers, the clients demand more partner time (hence less ability on the US law firm partners to delegate to their associates) and the partners tend to work harder than the associates and travel lots. They are also very openly judged on their billable hours and billings and have their remuneration reset every year or so against those targets. Their value and worth within the firm is directly tied to their billings and hence it is hard to rest on laurels.

It is a tough life with comes with financial rewards. I never quite understood why a person would work so hard over the best years of their lives only for others to spend their money. It must be something in themselves that is driving them but which they will never achieve, hence the insecure overachiever.

I am a lawyer and have worked at two magical circle law firms for a good number of years, now in house. I think at a US firm your husband’s hours are bound to be like this at times, although it shouldn’t be all the time in my experience. I was corporate not banking, but had some brutal periods followed by some calmer.

In the end he is making the choice to live this life. Whether it’s the promise of early retirement or not is a different question. I suspect he enjoys the adrenalin, power and success, as well as the money. That was my experience anyway (at times I enjoyed the adrenalin too, if I’m honest). But he is choosing those things over you. He could turn down some work for a healthier balance, but more obviously he could leave for a different firm or going in-house. Him choosing not to is a very clear message. I saw it all over the place, mostly men who made that choice and very very often their marriages failed/they had affairs (as others have said, the other cases the wives hired help and lived their own lives enjoying the money).

I moved in-house - absolutely great pay, great company, great colleagues. I still have long hours at times but I generally get to choose when I do them and I get proper breaks. I found it hard to make the choice, as I say I enjoyed aspects of it and I wanted to reach the top in some ways. However, I chose a work life balance and time with my family, and my health.

In the end you have to make a choice too. You either stay and accept it, and stop fighting it and letting it upset you, or you leave. He won’t change. He’s made his choice and despite your concerns he hasn’t stepped away from it. So now it’s over to you.

I remember my mum telling me that the hardest choice she ever had to make was whether to divorce my dad - he wasn’t a lawyer but a similar work ethic. She said the day she decided to stay, and to accept he would never change, was the day her life changed. She has a brilliant life with her children, her friends, she holidays round the world, has a beautiful house. They are still married and happy, he still works (in his 70s) and it works for them. But it was her choice, which is what empowered her to be happy.

I’ve name changed for this.

I used to be married to a lawyer who sounds just like your husband.

I was foolish enough to have two children with him. Work was always going to be better after this deal was closed, this project was over or a new member of staff was experienced.

It never happened.

He worked all the time, just as the OP describes.

We postponed our first two planned wedding dates because they coincided with a work deal.

When we finally found a date that suited him, he worked that day as the wedding was at 4pm.

We only had a three night honeymoon locally because that’s all the time he was willing to take off work. He spent most of the first day on the phone to work . I remember very clearly walking alone in the grounds of this lovely country hotel thinking it shouldn’t be like this.

He insisted we went home straight after breakfast on day 3 so he could get some work done at home. Little did I know that would be the longest time he ever took off work - 1.5 days.

He left me both times I was in labour to take work calls. I don’t mean for 5 mins, I mean for hours. He nearly missed the birth of DC2.

He did nothing with the children , I don’t know if he ever changed a nappy. My mother used to “joke” saying “ Don’t be scared children, that strange man is your father “. He didn’t get the hint.

He used to go away on business trips for a few weeks and the children didn’t notice he was gone for 5 or 6 days.

Every single family holiday we went on ( in the uk) he worked. He would work all morning and say he would spend time with the kids in the afternoon . But then he’d sleep all afternoon so he could work until 3am.

Most times we went on UK holidays he actually physically left and went back to the office.

By the time the children were school age they wanted to go abroad and I thought that might stop him working all the time or actually leaving. I was wrong.

The first time we went to Turkey and he billed nearly 120 hours during the two week holiday.

He promised it would be different next time. And indeed it was. We were in a hotel in Greece and He actually flew off to the US on day 2 “just for a couple of days “ and never came back.

We rarely ( and then never) had sex because he was too busy. If we even tried to watch a TV programme together he would work on his laptop. If I complained, he would put the laptop down and then fall asleep.

He worked every single day of our marriage except one - the day of his fathers funeral. He hardly ever saw his father during his final illness because ( you’ve guessed it ) he was too busy. He claims his family understood.

In his fathers last few days we went to the hospital together and I sat with his dying father while while Dh sat outside in the ward on his laptop.

We never went out anywhere as a couple or as a family - he was too busy. In the early years I used to try and arrange days out with the children but I soon learned not to do so as he behaved so badly and spoiled it for the children.

Once he told me that I was unreasonable to expect him to give up his valuable time doing stupid things like that ( I think we had taken the children to see Santa ).

I couldn’t understand the point of the money when we didn’t spend it on anything. We didn’t lead a luxury lifestyle. Yes we had a nice house and he ran a nice car. But no overseas holidays after the first two disasters - he had to be nearby in case he was needed by work. Uk holidays were a waste of time as he worked or left.

No nights out. No nice clothes - where would I wear them?

I had no hobbies or interests - I had to care for the children 24/7.

No help in the house - we didn’t even have a cleaner as he didn’t like them being around.

He worked every single day of our marriage except one - the day of his fathers funeral. He hardly ever saw his father during his final illness because ( you’ve guessed it ) he was too busy.

In his fathers last few days we went to the hospital together and I sat with his dying father while while Dh sat outside in the ward on his laptop.

It was all going to be different some magic time in the future.

He was going to cut his hours at 50 and retire at 55. Both these dates came and went with no change.

We divorced when he was 55 still working the same hours. He’s now 63 and guess what ?

Yup he’s still working just the same. He never sees the kids - he’s too busy. He says that if they want to see him they can come to his house but they never do. They are teens and have a life of their own - he’s irrelevant to them.

After we divorced he make a short term effort with one child and suggested they started an expensive hobby ( motorsports ) together. He bought all the kit. But then cancelled so many times that the child lost interest.

Not married to one but plenty in the family and DH is the child of one.
What @User8563029648123578 said is pretty spot on for my DH childhood experience. 'My dad said we'd do x but we never did as too busy working' and so on. FIL should be retired but he's not, even now he's working ridiculous hours. Grumbling but then can't seem to tear himself away.
In my experience wives either divorce or make the most of the money and use it to fund their own interests.
Sadly I don't think these men can be changed, it's nothing to do with who they work for or their position. FIL has done it all - started at the bottom, partner in huge firm and now has his own. Throughout his career his work hours and dedication to family time have remained fairly constant.

He’s clearly desperate to become an equity partner which I empathise with. There’s no point in working in someone else’s firm unless your going to get a good ten years as equity partner. It’s a mindset that some people get into during law school, they convince themselves that the path to freedom is to become an equity partner at a major firm and then they never escape. Obviously most of them never make it and essentially throw away their life making someone else rich. It’s a form of insanity. It must be incredibly frustrating to deal with.