Anyone married to a lawyer?

[angelofmum]

I feel like I can't go on with my DH. Together for 10yrs and 3 young kids but he is a workaholic. I knew he worked ridiculously long hours when I met him but when you're young and in love you naively hope things will get better. No one gets what it's like being married to a lawyer unless they are married to one, none of my friends can believe the hours he works. Now he's a partner in a law firm he just works round the clock night and day - he doesn't have a life outside of work. He's constantly bombarded with emails etc.. and he doesn't set any boundaries between work/home life. I thought things might be better with him at home during lockdown but if anything I've seen him less. Back to back calls/deals/document reviews etc.. some days he's at his desk from 8am until 3am without much of a break. He'll bath the boys "to help me out" but that's it. He's a good person but I think incredibly selfish. He puts his own needs before those of his family. He has minimal time with the kids and even less time for me. I'm in my 30's and feel like life is passing me by. My DH and I never eat together unless it's the weekend, hardly ever go to bed together, sex is rare as he's either working late or tired. He's always so busy that he never listens to me or hears what I say, I can see his mind is ticking over and thinking about work - I actually feel invisible.
I've threatened so many times to leave but I'm scared of being on my own as I have no income. I also come from divorced parents and I don't want to do that to the kids. I hate that he knows how I feel but he just says that's the way it is and I have to accept it. I've had CBT as he wouldn't try couples counselling and the upshot was I leave or he has to start setting some boundaries but he hasn't and won't. Anyone else a lawyer or married to one? How does your relationship survive?

We postponed our first two planned wedding dates because they coincided with a work deal.

Well if that's not a stark warning as to how one's marriage will pan out, I don't know what is!

Sorry to be harsh, but it's not like city lawyers just wake up one day and turn into workaholics out of the blue.

That said, I do completely appreciate the notion of 'it's just one more deal then things will calm down' for transactional lawyers. You never know what's on the horizon and it's sometimes easier to look at the work you actually have on your plate and think 'when this big deal is done, I'll have a really easy time' and block out the strong possibility that a different client will call you at 6pm on your first day of downtime with an urgent competitive bid that needs financing practically overnight. There's always another urgent deal and another demanding client.

How much do you actually earn as a city lawyer in the kind of firm the op’s husband is at? There have been a lot of mentions of huge salaries so I’m just curious

Well as a fairly junior lawyer you can be on a couple of hundred thousand. Whereas in the regions you would get that as an equity partner in a decent sized firm.

I read a book a while ago about the legal profession in London - can’t remember the details other than it was published in the early 1990s. Heart attacks were mentioned and one particular statistic stuck in my mind. Around 60 percent of city lawyers had suffered from heart attacks. It didn’t mention how many had died as a result, or indeed how many had died shortly after they’d retired. I suspect those statistics are equally sobering.

I despair when people needlessly work themselves into the ground at the expense of their health and sanity, especially when they think it’ll be worth it when they retire. Talk about taking life and health for granted.

If only people like OP’s husband would just stop for a moment and think; take a little time to reflect on their values. Life is precious, fragile and too bloody short. All we have is now - none of us can guarantee that we’ll be here tomorrow.

Hi OP, sorry you are having such a tough time. I'm a lawyer, although shortly to leave after the growing realisation that the vast majority of partners in city firms do act in the way you have described- complete workaholics with the job coming before everything else. I think it's a cultural thing and also that those who progress to partner generally do not question that culture and just accept that work must come first..I've often wondered how their families cope actually.

Maybe you should focus on the parts you could potentially change rather than those you cant? Eg long hours may just be part of the job for now while your dh is trying to progress and I know in banking a lot of deals close late, under time pressure etc. However your dh must surely have pockets in his day where he could make time for you and the family. If we weren't in lockdown presumably he would be having networking lunches eith clients/colleagues from time to time. The partners I know are incredibly busy and work long hours but they do still have time in their day and are often in control of their own diaries/priorities at least to some extent. Could he take that time with you instead and you could effectively diarise lunches together? Or half an hour time slots here and there where he could take a break and spend some time with you and thr children? I think you need to put your foot down, gently though and with the understanding there may well be days where he is simply flat out. Generslly in a working week i would have thought he will undoubtedly have some windows of time which he could spend with you - but he may be so caught up in the whirlwind of work that he is not prioritising those. I would talk to him about it- is he genuinely completely flat out every single working day (very unlikely I would think) or does he have peaks and troughs; how could you best fit in some time together?

Good luck!

I know someone in your shoes op. They throw money at the problem of domestic help.

@sergeilavrov

Thank you for being so honest in your post. Your comments about Multi tasking by taking a work phone call at soft play are EXACTLY the kind of thing my ex would do on the very rare family days out.

Of course you can’t watch kids at soft play and simultaneously be outside in the car taking a 2 hour conference call. So our “ family day out“ was me watching the kids alone and him working. Basically exactly the same as a day at home with an added dose of resentment thrown in.

He was angry that I didn’t appreciate the great sacrifice he made by “ spending the day with me and the children “.

Eg driving us there ( while on a work call ) , coming into soft play for 20 mins to get a coffee and eat cake , spending the rest of the time outside taking work calls in the car and then driving us home (while on another call). If he wasn’t on a call when he was driving , I had to spend the journey reading him out his emails and typing the replies he dictated.

When we had to do long car journeys ( say 5-6 hours ) they went like this. He would drive for 1.2 - 2 hours while I kept the kids quiet, read out work documents to him and typed up his replies. Oh and fed him snacks while he drank strong coffee.

Then it would be my turn to drive for two hours and keep the kids quiet / sort out arguments while he slept.

He didn’t understand why I was tired after 6 hours of this and he was refreshed and raring to get back onto the laptop. Because he had been working and I’d not.

That’s why it was only fair that I unpacked the car, dealt with the children, took them to the nearest supermarket, bought a weeks work of shopping, brought It back to the holiday accommodation, unloaded it and cooked a meal.

Because after all he’d been working and I was on holiday. And I was the one who had ‘made him’ come on holiday. It was always self catering as he didn’t like hotels, as spent so much time in 5* hotels around the world.

I’ve never been in one but I’ve seen a lot of photos and video calls of his suites . And these cute little pods they have on business class flights now.

That was his way of connecting with the children - showing them his luxury hotels and bringing them back the freebies as a gift. Sigh.

One thing I've noticed from a number of posters is that they used the money to buy help. My Dh wasn’t willing to do that so I got angry and exhausted as I had to give my own career AND still worked 24/7 doing all the housework, wife-work and childcare AND helping him with work.

He hated having anyone about the house as it reminded him of hotels apparently. The problem was that he expected the same level of service but without the staff.

Maybe if we’d had a housekeeper / nanny / PA things might have been different . Yes it would have cost him but so did the divorce.

I’d like to think that he would have kept some relationship with his children but I don’t think it would have made any difference TBH. That would take time and effort which he wasn't prepared to make.

@User8563029648123578 That sounds horrific! Thank god DH isn't as bad as that. He does enjoy downtime when he gets it. The issue is setting boundaries and not being a slave to his clients. If he had cut our honeymoon short or disappeared and not come back I'd have left him there and then. Amazing you had the strength to stick with him for as long as you did! Hope you've found some happiness now❤️

I was not married to a lawyer but someone who was absolutely immersed in his work, passionate about what he did and thinking that money and progression will solve all the problems in the world. We saw him very little and despite me having a better job, my husband chose to prioritise himself and his aspirations. I was lonely and for years felt like a single parent juggling it all..

Sorry OP if not relevant, but I wanted to share.. I couldn’t live like that, it took me years to build up the courage, but I left him. Not long after he died, pressures of job contributed.
I am heartbroken for my kids, they don’t deserve this.

Can I ask a general question to all the lawyers? Retiring at 55 - if you’ve spent your life being a workaholic (and enjoying the adrenalin etc) how is suddenly doing nothing going to work out, realistically? Surely they will just take up a hobby or something to fill the time and still be out the house all hours?

My own DH also comes from an 'atypical' background. I am now going to ask you the same question that someone asked me about him:

How much money would be enough?

It's actually pretty miserable being lonely in a marriage.

It is the most painful kind of loneliness imaginable. You live in hope and you are disappointed again and again. So near and yet so far.

Retiring at 55 is the story they all tell themselves, CarolynMartens. Maybe they even believe it.

People I know, golf, golf & more golf!

I would strongly urge you to go back to teaching if at all possible. However my suggestion would be to buy in help to get that as stress free.
Your career will be so far down his priority list as his pays the mortgage. It’s not less important, but it will be.
So things like parents evenings and staff meetings where you’ll need the cover for your own kids.
Sick day coverage is another thing you’ll need a back up plan for.

"The only way DH gets to do his job is because I'm there in the background facilitating it. "

I'm sure he'll do okay on his own if he has to. Just get himself a little unit closer to work, get a cleaner in occasionally.

@LonginesPrime
Sorry to be harsh, but it's not like city lawyers just wake up one day and turn into workaholics out of the blue

He wasn’t even a city lawyer but its not harsh. But my husband told me before we married that he worked all the time because he had nothing else in his life and that all he ever wanted really was a wife and children. And that it would all be different once we were married / once he was made partner / once he was an equity partner / once the managing partner retired because he was an idiot / once he had a better associate / once this deal was done.

And he really did like having a wife - it was like free staff at home. And he loved being a dad, as long as it didn’t interfere with work. He couldn’t manage their birthdays but he was there for nearly all Christmas Days and took the whole morning off to watch them open their presents - he enjoyed that.

So he was telling the truth - he liked being married and he hated being divorced. He’s found out what a hassle it is managing his own household staff - they are more expensive and work fewer hours than I did.

No one actually thinks they will work like this for 40 years. They just plan to do it for the next couple of years until things change. It’s a short term sacrifice for a long term gain, don’t you know ?

Lots of wives ( and I guess husbands ) go into this knowing it will be tough for a few years. They love their spouse and want to support them. They just didn’t know it would be like this for the rest of their lives.

I'm married to a lawyer. Your DH's behaviour is not the normal behaviour of a father or a married man. My OH has put in plenty of 2am shifts pre-children, but since left private practice to go in-house (same as me), where he works normal hours.

It is not the case that to remain a lawyer he will have to continue to work hours like those. It seems you've married a workaholic who chooses to work these maniacal work patterns. He could leave - he is choosing not to.

I had to spend the journey reading him out his emails and typing the replies he dictated

HELL NO.

Thank you @angelofmum. But I wasn’t strong to stick with it, I was a fool. But I was deeply in love with him and believed his promises. More fool me.

I’m glad you’ve had more success than me in enforcing boundaries.

I’ve not met anyone else - there’s not a lot of single men of quality in my age group I’m afraid. But that’s a whole other thread .

At least I don’t have to live his crazy lifestyle anymore and the children are much happier. IME it’s much easier being lonely when you are single than lonely and married.

My dp and I are both at the bar. Never forget one car journey - I was doing a really nasty torture case. Dp was doing sexual abuse child protection case. I had to read aloud an expert report for that case in car. I just broke down sobbing and had to stop.
It’s a thankless job a lot of the time.

The idea that you can work 100+ hours a week and then suddenly will retire in early 50s ... it's a nice idea, but does that ever happen? You are, what you do.
People who save a lot for their retirement tend to retire, then keep saving.

Haven't read the whole thread, but lawyer married to a lawyer (partner). Yes, some departments / firms have that culture where it's "sell your soul" to progress but ultimately its a choice. You can still be top of your game, big firm, big salary without those hours. It sounds as though he has to be "the" go-to guy. Is he particularly competitive / driven?

In my first firm, there were 47 male partners. 4 were still married to their first wives. That was 20 odd years ago but not sure there's been much change in attitude to progression. Divorce is prolific in law so you definitely need to have a conversation and more importantly see some change if you're going to avoid that.

Ultimately you need to decide as a couple how you want to live. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in your position, hanging on for my 50s to have a present husband.

You do sound a bit like you're in denial, or hoping he'll change somehow. He won't. He is where he is because he chooses to be. You can't change that. All you can do is change your own actions. I think your therapist was right - you accept that this is your situation and that it will be like this until the children leave home, or you decide to do something else, whether that's finding your own life, getting a new job and hiring in lots of help, or whether that's leaving. Do think about what you're teaching the children about relationships, and their worth to their parents, by remaining in this situation though. Divorce isn't always the worst thing for a family.

@angelofmum Hi there - I only joined mumsnet this morning.. I believe it was for the purpose of speaking to you. Trust me - things can turn around. My husband & I have gone through similar things.. he's been cold, distant, critical, absent - but on the other hand, a good man, a good Dad at heart, others think well of him etc. I have felt at breaking point. But I have prayed, as in my heart I didn't really want things to end, I just wanted them to change.
They can change. Not by our persuasive words, or wishful thinking - but by prayer. God wants our husbands to be present, to be loving towards us & our kids. God sees the potential in a person, & He can see all the things holding them back from that potential.
I cried my guts out - I just cried 'God, something has to change.. either something has to change, or I can't go on anymore'. That was my prayer - just a desperate cry for help. And slowly but surely things are changing. I feel grateful for the man I have. I feel like it's my job to see what he can be & to believe in his potential as a husband & father. And I'm seeing it happen. All those things I wised for - starting to happen in him. And when I see it starting to slip back.. him creeping back to his old ways - I pray. I don't get upset & start complaining to him. That's useless - it just pushes him further away. I stay positive, hopeful, grateful - & I pray.
I can actually see that our relationship is starting to look like one that I would have wished for!
I've read plenty of stories like yours, I read one this morning - & I didn't feel to respond like this to those.
God has heard your cry - your predicament. And he's there to help you, I really believe that xx