Anyone married to a lawyer?

[angelofmum]

I feel like I can't go on with my DH. Together for 10yrs and 3 young kids but he is a workaholic. I knew he worked ridiculously long hours when I met him but when you're young and in love you naively hope things will get better. No one gets what it's like being married to a lawyer unless they are married to one, none of my friends can believe the hours he works. Now he's a partner in a law firm he just works round the clock night and day - he doesn't have a life outside of work. He's constantly bombarded with emails etc.. and he doesn't set any boundaries between work/home life. I thought things might be better with him at home during lockdown but if anything I've seen him less. Back to back calls/deals/document reviews etc.. some days he's at his desk from 8am until 3am without much of a break. He'll bath the boys "to help me out" but that's it. He's a good person but I think incredibly selfish. He puts his own needs before those of his family. He has minimal time with the kids and even less time for me. I'm in my 30's and feel like life is passing me by. My DH and I never eat together unless it's the weekend, hardly ever go to bed together, sex is rare as he's either working late or tired. He's always so busy that he never listens to me or hears what I say, I can see his mind is ticking over and thinking about work - I actually feel invisible.
I've threatened so many times to leave but I'm scared of being on my own as I have no income. I also come from divorced parents and I don't want to do that to the kids. I hate that he knows how I feel but he just says that's the way it is and I have to accept it. I've had CBT as he wouldn't try couples counselling and the upshot was I leave or he has to start setting some boundaries but he hasn't and won't. Anyone else a lawyer or married to one? How does your relationship survive?

I would hate a life like this OP. It sounds so lonely. I think if you’re desperate to stay married for the kids you need to create a life that doesn’t involve having a romantic partner. Do you have any hobbies or interests you could invest some time in? Presumably you have a very good income and could afford to have babysitters so the childcare isn’t just your problem outside school hours. Do you have friends you could go on holidays with?

On the other hand if you couldn’t live like this I would consult a fabulous family law solicitor and ensure you have details of pensions, salary etc. I suppose he is still unlikely to spend much time with the kids but at least you’re free to meet someone new.

Why don't you arrange an appointment with someone in his firm to discuss his hours

Dont be so ridiculous!!

Not a lawyer, but in a niche financial services sector as well as an owner of two other businesses. High functioning workaholic. It is 5.55am as I type these words and I’m having a lie in.

He has to realise that an addiction to work is like any drug. It affects the body, it changes the mind and most of all and worst of all - what an addict of anything does not realise until it’s too late - it robs us of time.

Not every law firm has a culture that puts work first before life. Until your DH realises what a poor investment he is making, he will continue as he is because the drug is telling him so. He needs to make the choice for work life balance. It has to come from him. It’s the same for any drug.

Nobody on their death bed says “I wish I had worked more hours on client X”. They do say “I wish I had spent more time with my children when they were growing up”.

I’m getting up now to spend two hours in the garden hoeing between the currant bushes, drink tea and listen to the birds sing. At 9am I will start work for a few hours but by mid-afternoon I will finish. Could not have done that at 30 but was able to change course at 45 when I understood my life was important to me. Strangely I don’t do any worse money-wise now than before. I earn about 20% less now than in the City, but it was that difference which was the problem. Sacrificing that gave me my life back.

Yeah that was a very silly suggestion come to think of it....

There's nothing to be done then. He wants to work these hours, more than anything else. His firm wants him to work these hours, any noises they make about "work life balance" is just guff. OP has two choices. Come to terms with it, or see a divorce lawyer. Eventually he'll burn out or suffer some medical emergency or be forced into retirement, but that is an indefinite number of years away.

I trained at a law firm like this. At busy times it was utterly horrific. The partners generally looked ill and sad. US firms are renowned for being the worst and especially in London.

And I think there is always a pool of utter workaholics happy to do it. It’s very hard to break the cycle. (I realised it wasn’t a life for me and ran away as soon as I qualified)

Your husband, with a US firm on his CV, could move firms. Whether he wants to is another matter.

DH is a partner at a US law firm in the City. He doesn’t work anything like those hours- hasn’t for a very long time.

He’s obviously working at home all the time at the moment but usually he leaves at around 7.15 and gets home around 8.30. Occasionally he’ll have to do a bit more in the evening, often a call with the US, but not every day.

He has a lot of control over his work so if there’s a school thing or I have a work thing meaning I need him home early for the kids, he can usually do that. Just then might do calls or work from home once kids are in bed, but he certainly has flexibility.

Weekends he is fully ‘present’ with us- does loads with the kids and round the house. Occasionally a bit of work but he keeps it to a minimum and tries to wait until kids are in bed.

Holidays he (like me) usually has to do a bit at some point. We usually take only a week at a time to reduce the likelihood of us having to do much work. Once or twice we’ve had a holiday where a big case is at a critical point and it’s had an impact, but not usually.

He’s not in banking to be fair, he’s a litigator, but still.

To put this in context for non-lawyers, at the other law firms I'd worked at, I'd expected to do some work on annual leave but there had at least been an effort to hand work over, reduce email traffic to me. At the US firm, when I requested annual leave and told the partner the dates, that I'd checked no one else was working etc he said it didn't matter if they were as he didn't ever approve annual leave. Instead, I could go away and, when I returned, if I hadn't billed 7 hours a day, the hours I hadn't billed should be allocated to the annual leave time code.

Michelle Obama believes we're all responsible for our own happiness in a marriage.

Yes US firms renowned for being the worst!

I have name changed as I'm the only female at the top level in my company (don't want to say what it is in case identifiable!). I travel (or used to!) frequently, work stupid hours and get paid v well for it. Like your dh, I am aiming for retirement in 10 years when I'll be late 50s.

2 years ago one of my dc became incredibly unwell. I had to take 3 months off work and get him better. It revolutionised my life. I work just as hard now but I have boundaries. When there are big deals going on, I work till they are done, whatever that takes. But when I am in between things, I turn my work email off at home and the minute a deal is done (from my perspective) I take time off at home.

I probably did this all 10 years too late and I regret it. I've 1 failed engagement, 1 failed marriage and a host of failed boyfriends behind me. My now dp runs his own business which barely turns a profit but he loves what he does.

I will say 2 things - first you knew what he did when you met him but also you need to bring him back to the present. And bring the children into this. Because if you are suffering, so are they. I was so busy being on the rollercoaster that I didn't realise the impact I was having on those around me.

This sort of work makes you feel like the most important person in the world, someone further up the thread described it as a drug and it is like that. But you're not the most important thing and your family are.

The only thing we've ever argued about from the get go is his job.

It sounds like he has always been this person and you’ve accepted it and assumed that having kids would change him. I don’t think you’re asking to much but you are asking for more than your H is prepared to give. You need to have more of a life and gain more independence outside of your marriage.

It doesn’t sound like your H wants to change and it would be demoralising to stay in the hope that he will.

I’m a senior lawyer in a magic circle firm in London. I don’t have any magic answers for you I’m afraid - it’s a tough and demanding job and if you let it it will take over your whole life. There are some short periods where you need to knuckle down and do the hours for whatever reason (eg practice building, important deals), but this shouldn’t be all the time and tbh it sounds like your husband is not managing his workload and work life balance in a sustainable way which may ultimately make him ill. Sounds like you should try to sit down and reassess your priorities as a family and see if he might be happier either setting some personal boundaries at work (which he may not feel are achievable at the US outfit he is at) or consider moving to a smaller practice where the expectations are reduced. Otherwise I’m afraid this is your and your children’s life. Yes you‘ll have great money but at the expense of other things.
One caveat I would add, however is that lockdown is particularly difficult I and my peers are finding and has blurred the boundaries of work and home life for everyone and resulted in a lot of people feeling under immense pressure with no let up. So perhaps that could be contributing to it all currently,
Like I said - no magic answers - I’m experiencing this myself at the moment and my husband works at a demanding bank and we have we toddler and I am pregnant with no. 2 so some life decisions coming our way I think too!!

He is actually in the worst position of all at the moment. A partner in name only but not an equity partner. He has a high amount of responsibility to generate his own work without supervision etc but not the autonomy or power to step back. He is still looking to prove himself to achieve equity partnership so it is not going to get better.

I am a former lawyer married to a corporate partner. I used to feel the same as you but DH has much more control over his coming and going as an Equity partner than he did as a fixed share partner.

We set rules on holidays depending on time difference of 2 different hours at start and end of the day where he takes calls or deals with emails. He has become better at making family time available but admittedly this has come in his late 40s.

I think being married to a senior lawyer if you're not a lawyer yourself is difficult since you won't ever quite understand the culture.

I'm a lawyer married to a lawyer. I was at a very large international firm and left because there was no way it was sustainable for both DH and I to be equity partners at large law firms and to give the DC the time they needed. I set up my own firm which gives me much more flexibility. DH is an equity partner and the head of his office. He works a lot but he always has and we both accept that we might be wandering around the Magic Kingdom and he'll need to find a wifi hotspot to make a lengthy call. One holiday he missed most evening meals trying to complete a deal remotely.

We don't earn the crazily high six figure sums that we could earn if we worked for a US firm but working in regional firms means the hours and expectations are slightly better. Even so there are still many, many times that DH will be up at 5 working and not stop until 2am. He's home at the moment of course but it isn't at all unusual in normal times for him to start work at around 7am and not be home until 9/10ish

Equity partner is the holy grail. Fuck knows why since at a time like this the equity partners are the ones not getting any money since their profit share is massively reduced. Much better IMO to be a salaried "partner" on a decent salary with some employment rights than an equity partner dependent entirely on the profits of the firm and able to be moved up and down the equity without much say in the matter. If he or you think that getting equity means he's his own boss and can relax his hours you should think again. Most law firms are still controlled by one or two people at the very top of the equity.

Anyway OP I'm afraid that IMO your situation is highly unlikely to change and will probably get worse if he does make equity. If it isn't for you then I would suggest you have one last attempt to talk to him about the fact that it cannot go on and then make your choices. It doesn't sound like you're getting much from this relationship other than cash and a nice house.

I work at a law firm (in a support role), having seen the hours lawyers work and the NEVER having a full holiday without switching on emails, I wouldnt do it for all the money in the world.

My husband left a Golden circle firm because it was that or a shitty life with loads of money that we couldn't even spend together! Now in house and has the best work /live balance, is so happy and didn't actually drop any money in the end but just won't end up a partner or anything.

I don't think it can end well as you are going. Some people enjoy the time to themselves but you obviously don't. I think it's ultimatum time. Good luck x

How much do you actually earn as a city lawyer in the kind of firm the op’s husband is at? There have been a lot of mentions of huge salaries so I’m just curious.

He could turn down some work for a healthier balance, but more obviously he could leave for a different firm or going in-house.

This. U.S firms are notoriously punishing in terms of hours and there are other options out there. What is his notice period? I would ask him to commit to a different job by a date that is 6 months + his notice period from now.

To be honest, the only thing that might shock him out of complacency is if you had another man showing an interest.

My best friend's dad was a top lawyer in the US. Similar story. Her mum decided very early on that she'd rather stay married but on her terms. She spent their money on household help to ease the burden of single parenthood and started travelling on her own. A couple of luxury holidays a year. Spas. Retreats. She made friends through that. Travelled with them.

She's a fascinating woman who's had a good life but the trade off was being alone. He's now retired and they live separate lives. Relationships take work. Experiences and time spent together bond us. As per other poster comments, it seems unlikely your husband will be able to seamlessly slide back into the family at a certain point.

My dh was like this, I met him later in life, he was 50 and coming to the end of his passion for work. He used to work from 5am, home at 8 and then work from home, attaches to his phone and laptop, always worked bank holidays and weekends, there was no work/life definition. But, as I said he'd got to where he wanted to be, he also saw that, although he'd never change it, how much it had overtaken his life and affected relationships with his kids and ex wife. He took voluntary redundancy and now drives a HGV lorry for a living and loves it. Although he still puts in 14 to 16 hours a day (I think that's just in him) but when he's home he's present and it's amazing. If I hadn't met him later in life, I don't think I'd have been able to live with someone like this if I'd been younger with kids

@Francina670

A lot - newly qualified solicitors (aged early - mid 20's) start on £120k ish at US firms. And around £80k at second tier firms.

My dh is like this (not a lawyer) but I understand as I used to be a lawyer but I

Sorry pressed send too soon

I’m an ex lawyer with friends in mc firms.

It’s the nature of the beast I’m afraid.

Dh is always on the phone on holiday. We choose villas for this reason as do a lot of people I know. Dh is retiring soon - he keeps putting it off but it has got better the last couple of years.

Also bil is in banking & it’s mad at the moment with the hours.

You married him knowing it so use the cash to get help around the house & so you can have a break.

@angelofmum you can pray. God can turn anything around. What is it that you want to see happen? - pray - & watch what God does.

I'm married to a corporate partner in a mid tier firm. We actually met in another law firm and I was under no illusions about the hours when we got together. We've 2 DCs under 9 and to be honest I've done 99% of the parenting.

DH is not good at being present when he is with us and it has been the subject of many conversations where he wants to be with us but he's too much of a workaholic, I think he'd be the same why whatever he did.

I was diagnosed with cancer 18 months ago, luckily I'm in remission. I'd like to say he was really there for me but honestly, I did my usual and managed everything around the kids and left him to work.

Since then I've made the decision I want to be a family, but I'll do on my terms. We've moved house, had holidays, eat out more. Me and the kids don't wait for him to be available we just get on with what we want to do and if he's available great. I also went back to a corporate environment last year after years of self employment around the kids and I think that's been good for us as a team as their not just my responsibility by default anymore.

We've also started setting some boundaries around his work phone, fine for calls but not to be checking emails all the time. Specific nights nominated to spend time as a family and also time for him to take the kids out and me to have some space.