Anyone married to a lawyer?

[angelofmum]

I feel like I can't go on with my DH. Together for 10yrs and 3 young kids but he is a workaholic. I knew he worked ridiculously long hours when I met him but when you're young and in love you naively hope things will get better. No one gets what it's like being married to a lawyer unless they are married to one, none of my friends can believe the hours he works. Now he's a partner in a law firm he just works round the clock night and day - he doesn't have a life outside of work. He's constantly bombarded with emails etc.. and he doesn't set any boundaries between work/home life. I thought things might be better with him at home during lockdown but if anything I've seen him less. Back to back calls/deals/document reviews etc.. some days he's at his desk from 8am until 3am without much of a break. He'll bath the boys "to help me out" but that's it. He's a good person but I think incredibly selfish. He puts his own needs before those of his family. He has minimal time with the kids and even less time for me. I'm in my 30's and feel like life is passing me by. My DH and I never eat together unless it's the weekend, hardly ever go to bed together, sex is rare as he's either working late or tired. He's always so busy that he never listens to me or hears what I say, I can see his mind is ticking over and thinking about work - I actually feel invisible.
I've threatened so many times to leave but I'm scared of being on my own as I have no income. I also come from divorced parents and I don't want to do that to the kids. I hate that he knows how I feel but he just says that's the way it is and I have to accept it. I've had CBT as he wouldn't try couples counselling and the upshot was I leave or he has to start setting some boundaries but he hasn't and won't. Anyone else a lawyer or married to one? How does your relationship survive?

With regard to setting boundaries, would your DH consider reading this :

www.amazon.co.uk/Busy-How-thrive-world-much/dp/0349401209/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&s=books&keywords=busy&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1589882880&sr=1-1

I read it and was particularly struck by an anecdote similar to @User8563029648123578

The guy was high up corporate and worked crazy hours but to show that he prioritised his family, some things were NON-NEGOTIABLE.

So for example the children's birthdays, or a regular night out with his wife.

I work in a job where I was always cancelling personal things over professional, the personal could always be rearranged and the work stuff took priority.

I am now trying to put boundaries in place which are non negotiable because I have understood that if I don't, noone will do it for me.

It started with warning work I would be leaving to go to yoga class at X time once a week.

The meetings just kept running over and I had to force myself to get up and walk out the door at the time I'd specified.

It took a while, but now everyone knows I am leaving at that time and if they need me to present something in the meeting, it needs to happen early or not at all.

It sounds like the problem with your H is not so much the working hours, it's never focusing on one thing at a time, always having an eye on his phone etc. so never switching off, which is actually addictive behaviour and not efficient behaviour.

But you can't fix that for him.

Actually, here's an article about the whole "busy" thing by the author which will sum it up... for your "busy" husband !

networkingtimes.com/ntblog/2015/07/30/busy-tony-crabbe-networkingtimes/

I don't have the time to read all the responses, but I have experience of law/working until early morning hours for years and lots of friends who are partners in top firms. At the moment, your husband is building his business and at a key stage. If he is inundated and a workaholic he probably cannot change/take anything else in right now. He has to make small changes like daily exercise. Does he exercise? (I think that is incredibly important for partners) As regards you, I would suggest you firstly get as much outside help in that you can afford, to give yourself a break and have some meaningful hobbies and time to yourself first. Cleaner/part time nanny etc.

@francina partners could be getting into the millions! Def in London tip firms anyway

I work with lawyers and absolutely would never ever date one. They work round the clock, I remember them calling us at 2am and I refused to answer - I'm not a lawyer!
Also at the end of one of our projects (lawyers hire us for finance help in commercial law suits) we asked if the woman was going to take a break or go on holiday and she said "I haven't seen my children in a few months so I should probably remind them who I am"

My friends parents are both partners and eventually settled down later in life when the money was made. I think it takes a real life changing experience to awaken them and decide to retire early - they earn enough!

OP What are your choices here?

You aren't happy so you have to make changes to make you happy.

Perhaps separating is the right thing given your DH won't change his behaviour.

I used to be a lawyer and DH still is one. Very long unpredictable hours just go with the territory unfortunately. I left law when we had children because one of us had to be around for them. I accept DH’s crazy hours 99% of the time but i do get fed up when holidays are spent with him constantly on his phone working. But having been a lawyer I know the culture and the requirements and that he has very little choice but to do it. It’s really not that easy to just reduce your hours. If it was I’d still be a lawyer myself.

I remember one of my lawyer colleagues used to date a dentist and she was regularly on the phone to him at 9pm, 10pm etc etc wanting to know when he was leaving while he had a gritted teeth conversation back to her saying he couldn’t leave. She could not get her head around the realities of big firm law and that yes it might be well after 5pm but if work needed done we had to stay and do it.

But I do sympathise. It is very hard that work always comes first and I can imagine it’s possibly harder if you haven’t worked that life yourself.

Its really not a case that every lawyer works those hours. Not every Magic Circle / US firm has that culture, much less every department. banking lawyers work outside of those types of firms, niche practices, sometimes move in-house, even in the regions. It is not as black and white as saying "it goes with the territory". Yes, it is common place in the City, but it "is" a choice to work in that type of environment. You need a frank conversation with your husband about your choices as a family.

Not married to a lawyer but instead a farmer. During the summer he works dawn to dusk, including weekends, but the big difference is the earnings would be a fraction of your husbands!

I'm also married to a farmer. We're in the U.S. and our farming/ranching operation is busy all year. We irrigate for almost 6 months and that is 24/7 work. The breakdowns! The land we farm is 20 mile drive from end to end. In the winter it's feeding cattle and repairing equipment for the up coming growing season. Once irrigation starts it's balls to the wall!!!

We are making very good money thankfully but there were some years early on it was very bleak.

I've been on my own for 37 years - doing my own thing. We rarely do anything off our own land even though we are close to some of the most beautiful scenery in North America. We did travel to some beautiful areas camping with my parents several times when we first married. It's been 25 years since we went camping and that was just a long weekend in British Columbia with my parents.

I've been on a few trips to Europe alone. And then there was that wonderful weekend in Tahoe - not quite alone.....

My husband is not interested in the house, its grounds or my projects. He doesn't want any part of family life.

I've grown as a person on my own. I started a successful business, wrote a 150,000 word book and more. Learned and developed interests/hobbies I wouldn't have if I had a 'normal' marriage. I'm content and happy and love my life. I'd say it was my dream life.

I'm 67 now. I used love to ride horses and hike but I can't walk very far now unassisted and I can't sit bolt up for long.

Last year my husband came up for air and announced he'd like to get a big motor home and travel. He always wanted to visit Glacial National Park he said. I told him to ask his brother or his loyal dog to go with him because that ship has sailed for me. He didn't even notice I've become old and crippled.

He didn't buy a motor home instead he had a huge machine shop built complete with offices, bathroom, recliner and happily tinkers all day long to his hearts content, 7 days a week. Our son does most of the farming and I'm doing my best to encourage him to be different husband/dad than his father and so far so good.

I was only unhappy when I was expecting a 'normal' marriage. Years ago I kept thinking he would catch up on his work and we could be a couple. I finally realized his work is his life. His only life.

I’m not a lawyer but I do work in the city in a very male dominated environment. It’s a really tough position but as others have said the choices are really yours to make. I’d consider the following:

1. A frank discussion with DH re how unhappy you are and that if you dont address it together then your marriage may not survive until he retires
2. Explain the steps you are going to make to work towards your future (childcare/work etc)
3. Focus on what you can control/change. He has to want this so you need to take steps assuming that he won’t so start progressing your future independently of him and have him help pay for it (childcare/cleaner etc)

Good luck

@AustinRd's advice is very sound. I think going back to teaching part time would really help how you feel (I confess I am biased in favour of mothers doing salaried work because of the independence and confidence having some of your own income tends to provide). Take in hand the things you can control and use some of the considerable money that your H is earning to help pay for it.

From friends and relatives who are city lawyers these long hours are normal. I personally have never understood why you’d want to devote your life to that. Pp’s example of Michelle Obama is completely different imo- he was serving the greater good and will probably lie on his death bed not regretting the sacrifice. I think people in fields like corporate law just become institutionalised and lose sight of what is important.

At the end of the day he does have a choice. He could go to a smaller firm or go in-house. You also have a choice, and I think you have to base it on the here and now. You said it was sad to put life on hold for twenty years for your husband and the same completely applies to you.

I don’t think you should give an ultimatum as I don’t think you’re ready to follow it through. You need to really probe the big questions - what does he want out of life? What will he think if he looks back and realises he didn’t see his kids grow up?

If he really deeply prioritises work over family life I think you have your answer. But personally I think he’s this way because he’s blinkered and stuck on a hamster wheel. At the end of the day he can have a satisfying work life working 9-7 with weekends off at somewhere less manic. He just needs to choose to do so.

You need to really probe the big questions - what does he want out of life? What will he think if he looks back and realises he didn’t see his kids grow up?

IME talking about it doesn’t work. These men are lawyers - they know the right answer, how to negotiate and keep a client happy.

“ Yes of course” they will say “ I love you and the children, you are the most important thing in the world to me, I’m doing this all for you and for our future”. Blah blah blah.

Not one of them is going to say “ Well actually now you ask I do in fact care about money and status more than anything “ .

They will promise ANYTHING just to get you to STFU and go away and let them get on with their work.

I agree @user, you’re right. ‘It’s all for the future’ is rubbish though. Really what’s the difference in terms of future between a £2 million a year job and a £150k a year job? At some point the trade off between money and life becomes way too much.

It’s not just the op that he’s hurting though I’m sure he will eventually regret it. I don’t know how you persuade someone of that though...

It's not just the money though - when you've put everything into your work and made all sorts of sacrifices over the years in order to do so, it's hard not to derive your self-worth from your career. It feels like everything to you at the time, and I don't think that it's possible for anyone else to convince you otherwise. You have to come to that conclusion independently.

I know if someone I was in a relationship with had told me I needed to take a step back from work when I was pressing ahead in my law career, I would have felt they didn't understand me and weren't being supportive (I did break up with a few people who didn't 'get' my hours but my relationships never progressed to a serious point anyway as I just couldn't put the time in).

While I agree that you should have a frank discussion with him, OP, he is only going to change if he comes to the conclusion that he wants/needs to himself. I don't think that any amount of a spouse saying they're unhappy is going to change this situation. Although at least you'll know you did all you could.

Hi @angelofmum

I could have written your post, (my DH is in a similar role to your DH!) I also had a pretty similar experience to what it seems you are going through.

• But a few things have now changed (for the better). The best thing I did was that I went back to work part time (nothing too demanding, & not what I trained in but a tonne of flexibility) and second best, I set boundaries around shared parenting time. Nothing stressful for DH, I get he’s got a lot on his plate at work, just a few small things like getting the kids clothes out for the day & then breakfast sorted, (coffee on for me when I get up!) & taking them to the park etc one weekend morning, small but still significant things that mean he has one on one time with them and that it gives me a break.

I also made him tell me by 4pm what time he would likely to be home (if he didn’t I would phone his secretary/or I would send him a calendar invite to remind him)... & while he’s been home he does bath time, so it’s quite nice at the moment.

Pre lockdown we would do one date night every two weeks or so - dinner out no kids!

Hope this helps, it’s so tough sometimes, you also need to look after you - outside of the kids too - so maybe have a think about your free time and what you want out of it.

@Harryno He seems so devoted to his work this would work about as well as praying for God to change him, as another poster suggested. He's not going to establish any meaningful boundary between work/home. OP said he depends on her, but its sounds like he'd be happier as a single man, once he got over the initial shock of separation.

Life is short. He needs to realise that but I doubt that he will from what you have said.

I have no words of advice but lots of sympathy.

@ZenDay Even though modern commercial farming requires a lot of work, it still seems he must have been very poor at prioritizing work and probably didn't absolutely have to work so hard, perhaps like OP's husband.

Its a terrible shame you find yourself so limited at 67. At one point 67 would have seemed old to me, now not so much. But perhaps its for the best he didn't buy that motorhome. Going by your description of him, he would've gotten bored partway through the first trip, gone home early, parked it and forgot about it.

Hopeleacelove I did a lot of praying too. The idea of divorce terrified me. I had five DCs, still do. I was incredibly torn despite horrible behaviour on his part and feeling I was being slowly but surely destroyed.

I got my answer after all that praying. It wasn't the answer you might think and it came in a form I never expected. But it really is true imo that there are worse things than divorce after all.

Sorry, typo - hopepeacelove

What a great thread !

Ok, but lots of couples dont eat together unless its weekend.
His work ethics is affording the family a lifestyle.
He is working instead of golfing, clubbing and gyming.
I think you need to find something to mentally stimulate you and keep you busy. Perhaps expand your social life.
It's nice that he is involved in bath time. Presumably you can afford cleaners and nannies? You cant have your cake and eat it in life.

Thank you for all the replies! I've read through every single one, and it's been really interesting hearing all sides.
DH said he is going to work on putting boundaries in. I think he felt bad about the way I was feeling. He said he actually loves his job, not necessarily the long hours but he loves banking law. He also said he feels pulled in lots of different directions, trying to meet deadlines, getting back to see the boys, spending time with me etc.. He's never missed a school event/parents evening and that is something he said he would always make a priority when we had kids. Before lockdown we did get babysitters and went on date nights, so I'm looking forward to when we can do this again.
I have asked if he would prefer to be single and focus solely on his job and see the DC's whenever he wants, but he said he couldn't think of anything worse. Only time will tell though if it's a continued effort to change or paying lip service to keep me happy (he has done this before and as @User8563029648123578 said lawyers are good at this!)
I have been thinking of going back to work when my youngest starts nursery and I think that will help me focus on something other than DH and DC's. I feel I'm always in the background waiting for him, so I agree that I need to change the things I can control. Re-balancing the shift of power in our relationship would definitely help I think.

Honestly, you are so lucky. See it as glass half full!
Plenty of poorly paid in blue collar jobs couples dont see eachother, work insane hours, tired and no sex either. There are couples not working and not parenting either. It could be so much worse.
Appreciate him for what he gives and does to the family and work on your own financial independence and development. You sound like you could easily dabble in starting a business, in volunteering, in studying while livinh comfortably. Take that and build on it your own career.