Feel so low after my children opened up.

[nolovelost]

Long story, but I've always felt close to my daughters. But in the space of two weeks they've both said independently that they feel closer to their dad (we're separated), that they have more in common.

They are typical teenagers and all they've wanted to do during lockdown is chill in their bedrooms, and I've tried to be understanding but at the same time tried to encourage half an hour to an hour a day of family chats etc and an activity I think they'll like. Turns out they don't really enjoy the things I choose! But they seem happy that we've made the effort to communicate a bit.

At their dad's, they love watching the same programmes together for hours, which is fine but they don't really do much else. They're happy. They've been sleeping until mid afternoon and don't have their eve meal until 10 pm. They know that doesn't work here as I'm up early for work so I'm not cooking late at night etc, which they understand and I encourage them to get up earlier here.

They say that they love me the same as their dad etc and my youngest said that she couldn't wish for a better mum etc, but what they've said about being closer to him has hit me with the heaviest brick ever. I never expected my kids to say it.

Now I'm questioning where the hell I've gone wrong as a mum, and taken it so personally, I'm so low.

For years myself and their dad have got on well since separation, (when more got on for the sake of the kids as he's done and said some bad things) but things have happened more recently that have made me cut him out of my life (it's easier to do as the kids are older). He's a narc, always right, has no empathy and thinks he knows it all.

My girls think that I am over reacting getting upset about it.

Some honest opinions please but no flaming as I'm feeling very delicate.

Thank you.

I think it's completely typical and not a reflection on you at all. They are teenagers, their dad lets them do whatever they want, and I expect they interpret that as extra closeness even though it's really not. I had a similar relationship with my mum and dad for similar reasons at that age, but it really doesn't say anything at all about how they really value you. More worrying is that you would have felt suicidal over it - maybe intensity of emotion caused by the lockdown?

You're parenting them. Their dad is chilling out and doing nothing. Most kids will enjoy that more. Ask the kids what activities they'd like to do, I think the time together is important. We're watching a few episodes of modern family every night. It's a bit shit but it's what they chose, and we're laughing together. Carry on with the other parenting. Can they get up a bit later at yours and eat lunch then dinner together and just have some cereal or toast at 9/10 at yours?

I just had this instinct when you first said it that he might be a narc. I dunno why xD I was getting ready to say 'how close we are to parents changes and switches throughout the years' and then I got to your last paragraph.

That still stands. But with a narc father...I'd be curious if he favoured one child over the other. In which case, the scapegoat child will wake up to his shit somewhere down the line, perhaps as an adult though. But the golden child may not. But I get the impression that for now at least he 'likes' them both and you are the scapegoat. Could he be putting you down to them?

All you can do is be you. I would also suggest you teach your children about narcissists, and how to spot them. They can be partners, friends, work colleagues and they are not rare. Perhaps then, the first time their dad starts to try to shame them or does something else that crosses boundaries, they may start to put two and two together.

How did it come up in conversation? It's all stemmed from lockdown really, after spending more time with him. The first child, it came up because I brought it up, saying I was concerned they felt closer

To be honest I felt suicidal last night

It's not good for children to feel pressure to have stronger feelings for one parent over another. As a child I would have reacted really badly to this and probably said all sorts of things I didn't mean. Even as an adult it would provoke quite a strong reaction in me.

Also if you feel suicidal you should speak with your GP.
Your children's remarks however hurtful you find them should not affect you this badly. So you should definitely seek some help.

The first child, it came up because I brought it up, saying I was concerned they felt closer.

I think it's a bad idea to ask this. You shouldn't encourage them compare the relationships, it's not a competition, and it puts them in a very difficult position.

Comparison is the thief of joy. Their relationship with each of you will be different, and will ebb and flow depending on their ages and moods. If you feel you're drifting apart from them, focus on improving that, without bringing their father into it. And acknowledge that its natural at their age to separate a bit more from parents. Sounds like you are doing lots of good things and that they do appreciate you, so focus on that.

Awful, feeling, just awful.
So sorry you are feeling like this.

Maybe he's acting like a teenager & that's why. Give it a few years & it can all change.

The first child, it came up because I brought it up, saying I was concerned they felt closer. But how did you get to that question? And the fact that you said it was a 'concern' for you automatically makes it look like a bad thing that they feel like this.

My girls think that I am over reacting getting upset about it.

It isn’t a popularity contest and even if it wasn’t your intention, ‘getting upset’ in front of them, is very decisive. Teens are very fickle and are naturally drawn to the path of least resistance. Their current feelings aren’t a referendum on their love for you.

Routine is important and try to make agreements in advance so that they are a part of the dialogue.

you don’ Relationships where no demands are made of you are always more attractive.

I would ease back on trying to jollying them along. Routines are important and they are at an age when you can involve them in negotiations. DD and I have a contract with regarding how late she gets up on a school night and when she goes to bed

Believe me your relationship with your daughters will come into it's own when they get older. Don't put yourself down, you sound like a lovely Mother and they will grow to appreciate all you do for them. Their taste may be more similar to their father's right now but your lived experience as a women and a role model will mean a great deal to them as they mature. I speak for experience. Teenagers can be very blunt!

I was always closer to my dad growing up. We had more in common and to talk about. Loved my mum obviously but felt closer to my dad. My dad passed away some time ago and now I couldn't be closer to my mum. She's the best person I know. Don't be too hard on yourself. And don't ask questions like that of your kids! It's really unfair.

I can't think that there are any programmes that a 12yr old & 16yr old would enjoy that I would willingly watch!

Well of course they could sleep for most of the day & eat at 10pm-but they'd have to be making their own meals-maybe that doesn't appeal to them??!!

Forced chats & an activity together everyday?

Maybe just a bit of a catch up at meal times?

So at yours, is the 16yr old responsible for the 12yr old whilst your at work?

My girls think that I am over reacting getting upset about it.

Please don’t force them to choose between you. They are not responsible for your feelings.

Freud has a lot to say about this stage about this stage - where daughters compete with their mother for their fathers attention (he talks about sex but lets skip that!) & sons compete with their father - however you interpret that there is a degree of truth.
I always think of Anne Frank - in her diary she is constantly criticizing her mother & discussing how much better she gets on with her father & they were a happy family (although under enormous stress).
In many (most?) families daughters & mothers often have the most arguments & Dads often are on the side lines of the intimate & frequently disciplinary relationship (not always) so you as the main carer in your daughters life & also the safest most constant reliable person in her life is the one she doesn't have to make the effort with.
I have seen this in extreme cases with dc in care where a parent who isn't reliable or a good parent (understatement) but who the dc makes up stories of how good the parent is & all the wonderful things they (didn't! ) do
However - this will change -as your dc gets into adulthood & matures & recognises what is really going on
(read Anne Frank's Diary & note in the end she recognises that she was unfair)

I have an 18 year old and separated from her dad when she was very little.

I would never ask her a question like that no more than I would ask my child with DH.

You need to focus on your relationship in your home and your family unit. To be honest I have seen post after post on here about teens and sleeping late etc. My view is so what there is 24 hrs in a day to fill. Once my dd does what she needs to she can choose how and when she does it. It's a totally different style of parenting to small children I dont feel the need to spend long periods of time with her by forcing her to. We chat while she makes food or I pop into her to her room a few times a day.

At their ages why are you choosing? Ask them what they want to do and try to become interested in that.

Rethink your day and sit down and chat to them. Agree to make dinner together and clean up afterwards and school work is non negotiable. Make a list of films three each and pick one randomly once a week to watch together. Dont put so much pressure on it.

I think alot of mothers especially when separated feel they are the better parent and want their children to feel the same. Try not to think about it like that but trying to be the best parent you can be and dont compare it to your ex.

Dont take it as a rejection of you it isnt. I'm sorry you feel suicidal but that shows that you have an awful lot of your self worth wrapped up in your children. I dont think that is always healthy. The aim is for them to grow up and live happily and independently of you.

My dc have times when I think I'm closer, times when they're closer to dh.
I know because you're separated that it kind of feels that you're rivals, but saying you're concerned that they feel closer is not a nice pressure to put them under. I think you were hoping that they would deny it. But actually would you have believed them? You'd have thought they were sparing your feelings.

Don't compare. Yes, they may be closer to one of you at that moment, that doesn't mean they love one of you more.

encourage half an hour to an hour a day of family chats etc and an activity I think they'll like.
Now this really struck out at me.
I've 3 teens (or nearly). They are all their own people. I don't think they'd like the pressure of having a half hour family chat. We'd have dd1 wanting to have a long talk, dd2 sitting sulky for 30 minutes to the dot then leaping up and saying "that's half an hour, can I go now?" and ds bouncing around and suggesting a nerf gun fight would be far better. That would produce cooperation in his sisters for 30 seconds while they refused it, then he'd lose interest.

But we do have family times. They're spontaneous, or at any rate not expected or forced. Ask them what they'd like to do. It might be sitting watching rubbish on you-tube. Embrace it. Get popcorn, and fizzy and sit together.
What we'd have is one saying can they play mah-jong, or monopoly, or cards etc. Then ask the other ones if they want to join. Generally they do.
Another way of doing it, is have an afternoon where they can all choose one thing to do. Our rule is that they can't object to anyone else's choice. Add treats to snack on, and have pizza or something simple to finish the evening with a TV supper.

Let them be the leaders. It's fine when they're small to choose what they're doing, and yes, they'll probably enjoy it when they're actually doing it. But now they want to be treated as older.

I remember the long walks my parents loved. Dm used to go along telling me how lucky we were to have such a lovely walk, see the wonderful country and weren't we lucky to have such a healthy packed lunch rather than eating in a grotty café. The answer (internally) from me was no to all three. I now never go on a walk, and will always choose to eat at a café rather than a packed lunch. In fact I'd rather go hungry than have a packed lunch; I got to be an expert in disposing of it without eating it.
My siblings, who didn't always enjoy it at the time, now do the same long walks to their dc.
So forcing your dc to do what you think they like may mean they decide they do. In my case it made me sure I never wanted to do that again.
If they'd talked to me, and found what I'd liked. Which would have been a shorter walk and a sit down in a café for lunch (with toilets) and done that occasionally, then I'd probably have minded their way less, and probably even done it voluntarily. I might even have forced it on my dc.

@Choice4567 that's insane!!!!!!!!

Please don’t force them to choose between you. They are not responsible for your feelings.

^

This. You are the adult here. Not them.

If he is a narcissist then you need to look at this differently. My DP is a Narc and I'm currently in counselling to help me work out how best to get DD and I out of the relationship safely. I got wise to him several years ago and no longer work as a source of his narcissistic supply. As DD has become older he's now trying to use her for it - it may be that this is what's happening with your DC.

I've done everything for DD over the years - he did no parenting and when she turns on me, it hurts deeply and I completely feel your pain.

Honestly, if he truly is a narcissist, you need specialist help with this one, to protect both you and the DC. See how distraught this has already made you feel? I'm being quite blunt (also it's late here so I'm not being very eloquent!), but it's taken me about 10 years of pain to get to this understanding. Even start by googling a bit about narcissism and you'll understand what you're up against and how best to protect yourself and your DC from him.

& I would never ask my d (now adult) children who they would prefer - crikey your putting power in their hands to punish you if you have to be "bad" discipling mum
They love you that's enough parenthood shouldn't be a competition (I would probably lost that one several times!)

Maybe try and find a series you can all enjoy, we are loving Once on Netflix just now.

I think lots of women who perhaps have never really felt loved feel incredibly fulfilled by the uncomplicated love they get from their young kids, which is undying and reliable. Crucially, as the adult in that situation they also feel in complete control of the relationship too. They start to rely on it.

Then when the kids are teenagers and they have less control and also idolise their parents less the mothers can't cope. They feel rejected all over again and take it very personally. But the kids are just doing what they need to do to grow up. It's not about you and you need to look for love, connection and validation elsewhere. Raising kids is almost like charity work, you have to be prepared to give so much more than you receive, for the benefit of the kids more than yourself.

Basically what I'm saying is: expect less and try to find that reciprocal love you need elsewhere. Don't expect your kids to provide it.

OP who do they turn to if they need help or are troubled?

To be honest you come across as quite emotionally manipulative and needy.

My girls think that I am over reacting getting upset about it.
^ I wouldn’t be putting my emotions on my children. They love their father and you’re upset about it - what message does that send to them?

The first child, it came up because I brought it up, saying I was concerned they felt closer.
Why would you say to your 12 year old that you were concerned that they felt close to their father? From your child’s point of view this could be confusing and upsetting.

You need to get a grip before you damage your children or further damage your relationship with them.

The first child, it came up because I brought it up, saying I was concerned they felt closer
So its lockdown and they're teenagers and your ex is lazy and a narc and none of that is easy but what fuck were you hoping to get out of that question?? Putting all that shit in your daughter and now they're both running around trying to explain what they meant like they've got to manage your emotions.
I dont mean to sould harsh, but everything else you say sounds reasonable/normal but this jumps right out as very unreasinable/not normal (and a bit narcish).